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teachccd
Guest
Only the echo of itself…teachccd
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hvg3akaek
Guest
And yet, no one has shown how it is our love that saves. FUnny, huh?
PS - an “Appeal to Emotion” (or “argument from Anger” or the like) is also a fallacy
Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
God’s grace, Our faith.
Grace alone, Faith alone.
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hvg3akaek
Guest
Romans 4:1-3Body and soul are necessary for existence. Faith and works are necessary for salvation. Works cannot save alone and faith cannot save alone. Just as the body without the soul is a corpse, faith without acts of love is dead. I think that we’ve belabored this circular argument to death…teachccd
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Romans 9:31-32
but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”
Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
As far as I can tell, one is justified by love and faith poured into our new hearts.
Again, what does faith hear?
Again, what does faith hear?
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hvg3akaek
Guest
Well, as far as I can tell, I (and ‘faith alone’) agree with you.
“Faith alone” goes hand in hand with “Grace alone”, which is about God’s love, and nothing else, saving us.
Ah, now there is some contradiction - is it the Baptism that saves, or God’s love? If it is the Baptism, then it is still works - not the babies, but someone elses. Someone else is ‘getting the baby into heaven’, by works. Additionally - how about someone who becomes a Christian when they are older, and thus chooses baptism? That would definitely be works there!
Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
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Randy_Carson
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Amen!
Catholics love each of these scriptures as we do the entire 73 books of God’s Word.
However, we don’t agree with your fallible interpretation of them.
But since, we - like you - are fully entitled to interpret the scriptures as we see fit under the principle of sola scriptura, I hope you won’t mind if we have a little disagreement on the non-essentials.
After all, we agree on the Blood, the Cross and the Name, don’t we?
:tiphat:
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hvg3akaek
Guest
You seem to like asking that question over and over again…the echo is becoming deafening…
If you want an answer, you will first have to provide one.
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hvg3akaek
Guest
Care to explain these verses in your fallible interpretation?
At least then we can have a discussion, instead of me providing things, and you seemingly hiding your own views.
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Randy_Carson
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I would begin with the justifications of Abraham…care to discuss when he was justified the first time?Care to explain these verses in your fallible interpretation?
At least then we can have a discussion, instead of me providing things, and you seemingly hiding your own views.
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hvg3akaek
Guest
No, I will wait for you.
I have shown my hand - stop hugging your cards
If you have a differing interpretation, then share it with me, don’t play cat-and-mouse games.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Okay, to address the title of this thread, I would offer this:
Isn’t it curious that the Apostle Paul used the word “faith” and related terms more than 200 times in the New Testament, yet he never once used the phrase “faith alone”?
This seems strange considering how concerned Paul was with passing on the faith accurately and the means to justification would be among the most important truths he would preach. In fact, throughout all of his works, he goes to great lengths to choose his words with precision, so it seems odd that “faith alone” does not appear once in all of his writings.
This is even more surprising given the fact that Paul also used the words “alone” and “only” more than any other New Testament author. Clearly, Paul was well-accustomed to using these powerful qualifiers.
Could it be that the Holy Spirit prevented Paul from ever writing “faith alone” to describe the process of justification? And that same check prevented any of the gospel writers from ascribing “faith alone” to Jesus, either.
In fact, the only time that the Holy Spirit allowed any author to use that infamous phrase, is when He inspired James to write, “You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24)
Therefore, for those who propose that Paul taught justification by faith alone, a very haunting question remains: Why didn’t Paul use the specific phrase “faith alone” anywhere in his New Testament writings?
Isn’t it curious that the Apostle Paul used the word “faith” and related terms more than 200 times in the New Testament, yet he never once used the phrase “faith alone”?
This seems strange considering how concerned Paul was with passing on the faith accurately and the means to justification would be among the most important truths he would preach. In fact, throughout all of his works, he goes to great lengths to choose his words with precision, so it seems odd that “faith alone” does not appear once in all of his writings.
This is even more surprising given the fact that Paul also used the words “alone” and “only” more than any other New Testament author. Clearly, Paul was well-accustomed to using these powerful qualifiers.
Could it be that the Holy Spirit prevented Paul from ever writing “faith alone” to describe the process of justification? And that same check prevented any of the gospel writers from ascribing “faith alone” to Jesus, either.
In fact, the only time that the Holy Spirit allowed any author to use that infamous phrase, is when He inspired James to write, “You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24)
Therefore, for those who propose that Paul taught justification by faith alone, a very haunting question remains: Why didn’t Paul use the specific phrase “faith alone” anywhere in his New Testament writings?
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
I am sorry that I missed one of your posts.
I am sorry that I missed one of your posts.
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
And yet, no one has shown how it is our love that saves. FUnny, huh?
God so loved the world that He sent His only Begotten Son.
God’s love is poured into our hearts.
God is love.
He speaks His Word into our new hearts.
The gift of faith that He places in us, hears His spoken Word of Love throught the Holy Spirit.
His love is needed in order to be saved.
His love is needed to be believed in order to be saved.
PS - an “Appeal to Emotion” (or “argument from Anger” or the like) is also a fallacy
Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
God’s grace, Our faith.
Grace alone, Faith alone.
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Seamus_Sully
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Seamus_Sully
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Sorry, I missed your post. I did not try to miss it. This board goes too fast for me.You seem to like asking that question over and over again…the echo is becoming deafening…
If you want an answer, you will first have to provide one.
Again, I am sorry that I missed your post and questions.
Romans 10: 17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
As far as I can discern: God’s Word is love. It is given to us by the Holy Spirit. And God is love. Faith hears love. In other words, love is heard by faith.
Love is patient and kind, et cetera.
We must believe or accept that love is patient and kind. Love is not rude, or it is polite. Love is generous.
We must believe or accept that.
The written creeds are only some of the things of God.
The written creeds are only some of the things that we believe.
God is love.
I believe in kindness.
I believe in patience.
I believe in generosity.
I believe in forgiveness (Lord knows I need it. I also need to forgive).
I believe in mercy.
I believe in peace.
I believe in fidelity.
I believe in not being puffed up, or I believe in humility.
I believe in not being prong to anger, or love is calm.
I believe in being calm.
I believe in all of the characteristics of God’s love.
Hear, O Israel, Love the Lord God with all of your heart…
Also, love is first.
Also, love is the greatest.
In other words, love is in charge of faith.
It is God’s love poured into our new hearts that saves us.
God’s love makes use of faith, hope, peace, forgivnenss, mercy, and all of His other gifts.
Love is heard by faith.
Christ’s love compels us, wow.
God will make us be peaceful, et cetera.
It is a promise. The promises are sealed with His oaths.
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
Am I to believe that God’s love is not needed for my salvation?
Psalm 44: 27 Rise up! Come and help us! Save us because of your unfailing love.
Psalm 44: 27 Rise up! Come and help us! Save us because of your unfailing love.
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hvg3akaek
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No problem
The board does indeed move fast! I often feel that I cannot get away from it out of fear of missing someone’s reply and accidentally offending them!
Or:
Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
Or, God’s word/message is the good news of the coming of the kingdom of God.
Indeed! But - does our love have any bearing on our salvation? God’s love most definitely does (“Grace Alone”), but does ours?
Yes, faith without love is not faith. Faith without action is not faith.
But in this, love and actions are only responses, signs saying “Yes! I am saved”, what we do to show our love for God because he saved us. By the time we can love and act, we are already saved! For we were saved whilst we were still enemies.
Thus, it is not our love that saves us, nor our works that saves us. It is our faith, and God’s love.
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hvg3akaek
Guest
Again - that is God’s love, not our love.
Grace Alone and Faith Alone.
God’s grace, His love and our faith.
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
He pours His love into our hearts.
It is His love that saves us, He pours it into our new hearts.
I mean this, at least as far as I can see.
Please forgive me if I am wrong, I am not a scholar.
Romans 5:5 and hope does not disappoint, because the Love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us.
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Michael_Howard
Guest
Well said brother, it seems that hvg has opted out on responding to this, I wonder why?
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