One Cannot Be Saved by Faith Alone

[Seamus_Sully]

Faith must hear or believe something.

Faith hears God’s Word, both externally and internally.

Faith hears God’s Word, and His Word is Love.

His love saves us, if we accept it.

 

[hvg3akaek]

Out of faith, hope and love, love is the greatest virtue and the greatest commandment. Without love there cannot be faith nor hope. Remember scripture says “Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love.” [1 John 4:8 ] …

Thanks for your reply!

Unfortunately, you didn’t actually address my question.

I asked where the bible said that our love saves us / frees us / allows us to be forgiven.

You have simply told me that love is important. I was not disputing this What I was disputing is that our love does not save us, free us, or remove our sins. It is a right and good response to being saved, freed and forgiven, and a lack of love is a clear sign that we do not know God, and indeed it is a great virtue…but that all comes after we are saved, it does not cause our salvation.

So, again I ask you - where you find this in the Bible, you know, a verse that says “It is by your love that you are saved”, or “Your love has set you free” or “Your sins are forgiven because of your love”?

Thanks,

-hvg3

 

[Michael_Howard]

Thanks for your reply!

Unfortunately, you didn’t actually address my question.

I asked where the bible said that our love saves us / frees us / allows us to be forgiven.

You have simply told me that love is important. I was not disputing this What I was disputing is that our love does not save us, free us, or remove our sins. It is a right and good response to being saved, freed and forgiven, and a lack of love is a clear sign that we do not know God, and indeed it is a great virtue…but that all comes after we are saved, it does not cause our salvation.

So, again I ask you - where you find this in the Bible, you know, a verse that says “It is by your love that you are saved”, or “Your love has set you free” or “Your sins are forgiven because of your love”?

Thanks for getting back to me

Could you please define what love is?

Thanks,

-hvg3

 

[Randy_Carson]

Thanks for your reply!

Unfortunately, you didn’t actually address my question.

I asked where the bible said that our love saves us / frees us / allows us to be forgiven.

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

Luke 7:47
Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[Michael_Howard]

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

Luke 7:47
Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

Good point! I guess what I’d like to know is this: if we are saved by “faith alone” why does Paul say that love is greater than faith and hope?

 

[Ignatius]

Even if I "
if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing."

 

[hvg3akaek]

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

Luke 7:47
Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

No, unfortunately it doesn’t (except in a “the Bible does not say it” kind of way)

Peter 4:8 is clearly not talking about our love making us forgiven. Loving each other means that we can forgive others - just as God loving us means that we can be forgiven. But us loving others does not make us right with God.

Luke 7:47 - if you think this is the meaning of the passage, then perhaps you should study it a little more slowly. The passage says that she loves much because she had many sins forgiven. Again - it is a reaction, not a cause.
Luke 7:41-53:

41"Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,[d] and the other fifty. 42Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?"

43Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled.”
“You have judged correctly,” Jesus said.

44Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.”

48Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

49The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

From the context, (mainly the story Jesus used to explain the situation), the love came because of the cancellation of the debt.

Her love was because of the forgiveness of her sins.

And even in v50 Jesus says “Your faith has saved you” - not “Your love has saved you”!
Michael Howard:

So if we are justified by faith alone why does Paul consider love greater than both faith and hope? God bless!

Faith is what we have had, Love is what we are to do. Faith is more between us and God, Love is for and seen by all.

 

[Michael_Howard]

No, unfortunately it doesn’t (except in a “the Bible does not say it” kind of way)

Peter 4:8 is clearly not talking about our love making us forgiven. Loving each other means that we can forgive others - just as God loving us means that we can be forgiven. But us loving others does not make us right with God.

Luke 7:47 - if you think this is the meaning of the passage, then perhaps you should study it a little more slowly. The passage says that she loves much because she had many sins forgiven. Again - it is a reaction, not a cause.

From the context, (mainly the story Jesus used to explain the situation), the love came because of the cancellation of the debt.

Her love was because of the forgiveness of her sins.

And even in v50 Jesus says “Your faith has saved you” - not “Your love has saved you”!

Faith is what we have had, Love is what we are to do. Faith is more between us and God, Love is for and seen by all.

It boils down to this: can repentence be brought about without God first pouring His love out upon us? Scripture says, “it’s your kindness that leads to repentence”, so love precedes faith for how can one have faith without first being loved?

 

[hvg3akaek]

It boils down to this: can repentence be brought about without God first pouring His love out upon us? Scripture says, “it’s your kindness that leads to repentence”, so love precedes faith for how can one have faith without first being loved?

Which is why, from the start, I was addressing our love, not God’s love.

We are saved by our faith, not our love. We are saved by God’s grace - His love. Not ours.

 

[Seamus_Sully]

It is God’s love.

His love is given to us.

Then His love is now our love.

We are now the owners of the gift.

We have new hearts.

He gives us new hearts.

Now they are our hearts.

It is all a gift or grace.

 

[teachccd]

Good point! I guess what I’d like to know is this: if we are saved by “faith alone” why does Paul say that love is greater than faith and hope?

Galatians 5:6. A faith without love is an empty faith, a dead faith, a faith which cannot save.

 

[teachccd]

We are saved by our faith, not our love. We are saved by God’s grace - His love. Not ours.

But our love demonstrates our faith. To just have a said faith is a dead faith. That “faith” cannot save. See James 2:26.

 

[geezerbob]

A man who says he loves God but does not love his neighbor is a liar. Who said that and what are the implications of that statement? Hint: It wasn’t Paul.

 

[teachccd]

1 John 3:14 says, " WHOEVER DOES NOT LOVE REMAINS IN DEATH." This does not sound like salvation to me…

 

[Seamus_Sully]

I started this thread because I tried for many, many years to convince my brother that faith alone is Biblically incorrect.

I had many, many long conversations with him. He never changed his opinion.

Then after working and praying for one year, I tried the last set of passages.

I wrote them down and gave them to him.

The passages centered around, what does faith hear?

In addition, God so loved the world that He sent His only Begotten Son.

His Word became flesh (we hear His Word).

His Son is Love Incarnate (in His Word).

He then realized love is what faith hears.

In other words, love is heard by faith.

My brother then realized, Biblically, love is first and greatest.

Love gives life to faith.

It is God’s Love that saves us.

His Love uses faith, hope and all of the other graces or gifts.

The conversation were overe twenty-five years.

Whether it helps others or not, this is the honest truth.

He held the opinion that faith ruled.

He now sees more clearly, love rules and it is God’s love poured into our new hearts that saves us.

There are many things that he hates about the Catholic Church, but he now sees more clearly that love is needed for our salvation.

I would think that most people could care less about two brothers. I doubt if many people have read this post this far, but I pray some read it and comprehend the importance of this actual event.

Also, I was afraid to give the passages to my brother because I feared that it was the last and best agrument. When he rang me up four days later, I could not believe he accepted the passages that I mailed him.

 

[clmowry]

It all comes down to the definition of “Faith” or “Belief”.

If your definition of “Faith Alone” is simply believing that “Christ is God”. Then One Cannot Be Saved by “Faith Alone”

If your definition of “Faith Alone” is believing all God has revealed to us through Christ and His Church. Then “Faith Alone” can save you.

Chuck

No, unfortunately it doesn’t (except in a “the Bible does not say it” kind of way)

Peter 4:8 is clearly not talking about our love making us forgiven. Loving each other means that we can forgive others - just as God loving us means that we can be forgiven. But us loving others does not make us right with God.

Luke 7:47 - if you think this is the meaning of the passage, then perhaps you should study it a little more slowly. The passage says that she loves much because she had many sins forgiven. Again - it is a reaction, not a cause.

From the context, (mainly the story Jesus used to explain the situation), the love came because of the cancellation of the debt.

Her love was because of the forgiveness of her sins.

And even in v50 Jesus says “Your faith has saved you” - not “Your love has saved you”!

Faith is what we have had, Love is what we are to do. Faith is more between us and God, Love is for and seen by all.

 

[teachccd]

He then realized love is what faith hears.

In other words, love is heard by faith.

My brother then realized, Biblically, love is first and greatest.

**Love gives life to faith. **

It is God’s Love that saves us.

His Love uses faith, hope and all of the other graces or gifts.

.

How can any Christian not see this?? Faith without love is dead and it cannot save. I will always remember your phrase, " Love gives life to faith." As the soul gives life to the body; there can be no other way. Faith alone are essentially “words alone” , the body of faith without the soul of faith. In union with each other we see the fullness of a saving faith. God Bless…teachccd

 

[Seamus_Sully]

The vast majority of Christians are not scholars.

I am not a scholar.

My brother believed the wrong people.

Then he used his intellect to defend a false teacher, his preacher.

Speaking for my brother, he was 98 or 99 % when testing for college.

He attended a good, but not a great college.

He thought he knew everything there was to know about our Catholic faith.

He was smart, but did not know philosophy, history, theology nor the Holy Bible.

Then he believed the preacher: “Saved by faith alone.”

He believed the preacher: “Only the Bible.”

He believed the preacher: “You cannot be good.”

He believed the preacher: “Your sins do not matter, you still get to go to heaven.”

He believed the preacher: “Catholics don’t know their Bible.”

He believed the preacher: “The Catholic Church does use the Bible.”

The Catholic Church is one big lie. They are the whores of Babylon.

Why he believed those lies, I do not know.

All of those statements are false.

I asked him as many as a thousand questions. Many of the questions he could not answer. Saved by faith and only the Bible, he could see were not in the Holy Bible, but, at the same time, he thought I tricked him. He thought that the Catholic Church is like any human government: It never tells the truth. He thought the Church had tricked me.

Oh, the one about “Catholics don’t know their Bible” was true of my brother at that time. But he did hear many parts of the Bible at daily Mass, he just did not realize how much he had heard. Our grade school sent us to mass daily.

My brother has now memorized several hundred Bible passages; he uses the KJV.

If anyone is still reading, which I would doubt, he believed the wrong preacher. I think the reason is: Love is patient and kind. There are not many people that want to be patient and kind–it is for babies and wimps. The rest about love, he did not believe either. Who wants to be generous?

But God yells: “If you believe patience and kindness are good, then I promise and make an oath, I will make you patient and kind.”

We should believe love, that is, I Corinthians 13. The entire Bible tells us so many beautiful things about love, but we do not realize that it is love that we should believe. God is love! We should believe His love.

We have new hearts. We can love. It is His love poured into our new hearts that compels us to love. It is His love that is heard by our faith.

We can love. Love is for matured Christians, God does the maturing of the Christians. Love is for those that God made grow up.

Love is first. Love is greatest.

 

[hvg3akaek]

But our love demonstrates our faith. To just have a said faith is a dead faith. That “faith” cannot save. See James 2:26.

Absolutely! I have no disagreements there

However - love is only the outworking of our faith. The sign that our faith is really faith. The rash of our disease, to use a negative example. (the rash is not the sickness, only the sign of our sickness).

It is our faith, and our faith alone, that saves us. (from our perspective Of course, God’s grace is well and truly there!)

Our love merely shows us that our faith is alive and kicking!

 

[hvg3akaek]

My brother then realized, Biblically, love is first and greatest.

Love gives life to faith.

It is God’s Love that saves us.

Absolutely! “faith alone” is not against this! “faith alone” goes along with “grace alone”, which mean much less when separated!

Grace alone - it is by God’s grace alone that we are saved. God’s love. It happens first, it is the most important thing. On God’s side, it is only His grace that saves us.

His grace (love) gives us faith. It is that faith that, on our side, saves us. It is not our love that saves us - but our love shows that we are saved.