One Catholic voice on death penalty takes on another (Prejean vs. Scalia)

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Richardols:
Not as I would like. As the Church would like. John Paul II was quite forceful on this account. And justice can be exercised without the death penalty.

BTW, the principle of judicial review for constitutionality of laws should remain a constant.
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  1. John Paul II asked for restraint in the use of the death penalty especially among developed nations. No doubt he was thinking of countries like China, where capital punishment is abused and more people are executed in one month than the annual figures for rest of the world combined. FYI in 2004, 59 persons were executed in the United States; China killed 10,000. web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty-facts-eng
  2. He never denied the state’s right to use the death penalty - he couldn’t because it would contradict Church teaching. He was exercising his prudential judgment. Pope Benedict could exercise his prudential judgment and ask that Western countries be more harsh in their sentencing to deter crime and reduce gravely sinful behavior. I’m sure you would change your opinion on this matter if that were the case because in your own words it would be what “the Church would like.”
 
Xavier4Life said:
1) John Paul II asked for restraint in the use of the death penalty especially among developed nations. No doubt he was thinking of countries like China, where capital punishment is abused and more people are executed in one month than the annual figures for rest of the world combined.
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Given that the Vatican has virtual no influence in China, I’d think that he was thinking of nations like the United States.
He never denied the state’s right to use the death penalty - he couldn’t because it would contradict Church teaching.
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Correct.
Pope Benedict could exercise his prudential judgment and ask that Western countries be more harsh in their sentencing to deter crime and reduce gravely sinful behavior.
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Fat chance of that. No, zilch chance of that. B16 is a German, he’s not a Nazi.
I’m sure you would change your opinion on this matter if that were the case because in your own words it would be what “the Church would like.”
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No, I’ve always opposed the death penalty, the mark of barbarism.
 
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katherine2:
Oh, a good number of us don’t think he is a very worthy justice.
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Hear! Hear!
Not a point in his favor in my book as i don’t believe people should be put in jail because they are homosexual.
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I agree. I don’t want heterosexual couples jailed for sodomy and I don’t want people in jail for using birth control either. I’m uneasy about cops peering into people’s bedrooms.
 
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Richardols:
Does he? He opposes the Church on other points with his acceptance of the Culture of Death through his enthusiasm for the death penalty…
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The death penalty is not Euthanasia. The Catholic Church is not anti-death penalty. They believe that it can be acceptable in extreme situations. You are taking the extreme view and condemning those who do not agree with your extreme.

This woman went on tv and said that people should not be speaking up for Terry Shiavo. That is Euthanasia. She went against the Vatican on this issue. I think she is a discenter on other issues, but am not sure.
 
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Richardols:
Not as I would like. As the Church would like. John Paul II was quite forceful on this account. And justice can be exercised without the death penalty.

BTW, the principle of judicial review for constitutionality of laws should remain a constant.
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John Paul II was not the Church. The Pope can not just change Catholic doctrine like you are claiming JPII did, which he didn’'t. It was the popes view that it should be kept to extreme situations, which it should. Scalia is not going against the Church by supporting the death penalty.
 
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Richardols:
I’m not kidding. And, he’s entitled to his opinion, if that is in fact, his opinion. There are those who share it, perhaps you do.

I don’t.
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Judges have no place in making laws, that is the job of Congress and the president. The Supreme Court makes decisions on whether what Congress says is against what the Constitution says. That is their job, and that is all.
 
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Richardols:
I agree. I don’t want heterosexual couples jailed for sodomy and I don’t want people in jail for using birth control either. I’m uneasy about cops peering into people’s bedrooms.
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I’m uneasy about the courts finding rights in the Constitution that don’t exist. This is how we ended up with legalized abortion.
 
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Richardols:
Shows you how little he knows. Certainly, the Pope’s teachings aren’t infallible, but to dismiss them as just the Pope’s personal opinion, no more weighty than the Pope’s opinion of the best restaurant in Rome shows how little he respects the Pope and how little he values what the head of our Church says.

Now, there’s a Supreme Court Justice who needs to be replaced!
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I can think of six Justices who need to be replaced:
Stephen Breyer
Ruth Bader Ginsburg
Anthony Kennedy
Sandra Day O’Connor
David Souter
John Paul Stevens

Breyer, Ginsburg, Souter and Stevens have consistently voted against restrictions on abortion. Kennedy and O’Connor flip flop on the issue. Kennedy and O’Connor cast deciding votes on cases that, if they had voted the other way, could have overturned Roe v. Wade.
These six Justices are embrace the Culture of Death with their enthusiam for the murder of unborn children.
You cannot equate capital punishment with abortion. Abortion is intrinsically evil while capital punishment is just in certain cases. You have acknowledged this fact in a subsequent post.
 
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Richardols:
No, I’ve always opposed the death penalty, the mark of barbarism.
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The mark of barbarism is destroying the most defenseless of all human life. Abortion is the mark of barbarism.
Please don’t think I believe you are pro abortion because I believe you are pro life. I’m from Chicago, where we had 14 years of Cardinal Bernardin equating abortion with capital punishment thanks to his “seamless garment” statement, which set back the pro life movement.
I take exception to those who vehemently oppose capital punishment but are supportive or indifferent to abortion. The Church has always taught that abortion is the greater evil, as there is never a case where the taking of innocent life is just.
 
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Richardols:
No, I’ve always opposed the death penalty, the mark of barbarism.
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Then you must consider God a barbarian, because a significant part of the Torah outlines God’s requirement to exectute violators of certain parts of the Law.
 
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Richardols:
I agree. I don’t want heterosexual couples jailed for sodomy and I don’t want people in jail for using birth control either. I’m uneasy about cops peering into people’s bedrooms.
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Let’s hear back from you in a few years when the ACLU and the courts collude to repeal Age of Consent laws as unconstitutional and groups like NAMBLA set up an outreach program in your neighborhood.
 
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_1_104.gifEspecially Richardols - Justice Scalia deserves high praise for his judicial opinions. We can all be thankful that he and Justice Thomas made it to the Supremes - only liberal thinking (aka stupidity) prevented Judge Borke from being another great influence in the preservation of our God based country!
 
Swiss Guard:
**You cannot equate capital punishment with abortion. Abortion is intrinsically evil while capital punishment is just in certain cases. **
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Sure, but those certain cases don’t exist in America today. It’s not either/or people. JPII was successfully anti-abortion and anti- death penalty. Surely as Catholics we should rise to the challenge of reforming our politics to make this a possibilty for Americans, too.

If you’re going to claim the label of pro-life, you need to be prepared to go all the way. Womb to tomb.
 
grotto said:
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_1_104.gifEspecially Richardols - Justice Scalia deserves high praise for his judicial opinions. We can all be thankful that he and Justice Thomas made it to the Supremes - only liberal thinking (aka stupidity) prevented Judge Borke from being another great influence in the preservation of our God based country!
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Beware, there are those who consider themselves Catholic in these forums that do not believe that God has a standing invitation in the public square. He should go back to the Church and wait for us in there and not show Himself in public.
 
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Scott_Lafrance:
Then you must consider God a barbarian, because a significant part of the Torah outlines God’s requirement to exectute violators of certain parts of the Law.
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I have news for you. We are no longer under the Torah.
 
Philip P:
Sure, but those certain cases don’t exist in America today. It’s not either/or people. JPII was successfully anti-abortion and anti- death penalty. Surely as Catholics we should rise to the challenge of reforming our politics to make this a possibilty for Americans, too.

If you’re going to claim the label of pro-life, you need to be prepared to go all the way. Womb to tomb.
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This is the consistently pro-life position. We should oppose anything that is part of the Culture of Death, abortion and the death penalty alike.

I cannot understand people who are so passionate about retaining the death penalty, in the face of world-wide rejection of that barbarism and in the face of John Paul’s opposition to its use.
 
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Richardols:
I have news for you. We are no longer under the Torah.
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Did God change? And what is worse, to repent and be executed by a lawful application of state law, or to rot in jail unrepentent and die outside God’s grace? How many people have made a sincere repentance while walking to the death chamber? Jesus may have eliminated the ceremonial and ritualistic requirements of the Law, but he certainly did not banish the eternal punishment of disobedience. But that is outside of the scope of this coonversation. What is germain is that at some point, God commanded Israel to execute people. Since you say that capital punishment is barbaric, and Israel had a divine imperative to conduct capital punishment, then the originator of that imperative must also be barbaric, unless God has changed, which means He is a different God now than he was then.
 
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Richardols:
This is the consistently pro-life position. We should oppose anything that is part of the Culture of Death, abortion and the death penalty alike.

I cannot understand people who are so passionate about retaining the death penalty, in the face of world-wide rejection of that barbarism and in the face of John Paul’s opposition to its use.
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What I find horrific is when people want a 100% ban on capital punishment, and convicted violent criminals escape to kill again, or better yet, continue to take life in prison. Capital punishment is still acceptable as societal retribution for the most violent and unrehabilitable of society. Canon Law agrees with me, and this position is in complete union with JPIIs statements. He did not call for a complete ban on the practice, but rather called for a curtailment of its use, a postion I completely agree with.
 
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