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Servant19
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Again, is that true Martin?
Moses, Noah, David, Abraham have no place in salvation history?
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Moses, Noah, David, Abraham have no place in salvation history?
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MartinJordan
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Servant19
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No its not, I’m simply answering questions.
I think the Baha’i Faith has the most to say about salvation history and the “fullness of Truth” which is all very relevant.
In order to understand this perspective, many posters have asked questions. I think it only polite to answer them in relation to the thread topic
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Servant19
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MartinJordan
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The trouble with this is that you go back again to Bahai being killed and that makes it the Truth?No its not, I’m simply answering questions.
I think the Baha’i Faith has the most to say about salvation history and the “fullness of Truth” which is all very relevant.
In order to understand this perspective, many posters have asked questions. I think it only polite to answer them in relation to the thread topic
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MJ
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MartinJordan
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Servant19
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I’m sorry if it circles but salvation history circled only around Jesus makes no sense if it doesnt include Moses and why He was sent in the first place?Of course I can. But then you’ll go back to Bahai and then it will circle.
MJ
Its simple reasoning dear friend, nothing Bahai at all…
Can you give me “reasonable” guidance please?
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Servant19
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Can you tell me why hundreds of thousands of people would not recant their Faith and carry on living?
These things are powerful and are at least historically verifiable by external sources. That is something powerful too…
Inspiring in fact…
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MartinJordan
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MartinJordan
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Take Jesus out of the equation and where do you think the Bahai would be?Can you tell me why hundreds of thousands of people would not recant their Faith and carry on living?
These things are powerful and are at least historically verifiable by external sources. That is something powerful too…
Inspiring in fact…
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MJ
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JamesCarr
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Let us first read these extracts from wikipedia.com. If even this you won’t believe, then there’s nothing else you would believe.Can you tell me why hundreds of thousands of people would not recant their Faith and carry on living?
These things are powerful and are at least historically verifiable by external sources. That is something powerful too…
Inspiring in fact…
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“…In the two thousand years of the Christian faith, about 70 million believers have been killed for their faith, of whom 45.5 million or 65% were in the twentieth century according to “The New Persecuted” (“I Nuovi Perseguitati”)“
“…Atheists have experienced persecution throughout history. Persecution may refer to unwarranted arrest, imprisonment, beating, torture, or execution.“
“With the Missouri extermination order Mormons became the only religious group to have a state of the United States legalize the extermination of their religion.“
“The persecution of Jews occurred many times in Jewish history.“
“The Sunni rulers under the Umayyads sought to marginalize the Shia minority and later the Abbasids turned on their Shia allies and further imprisoned, persecuted, and killed Shias. The persecution of Shias throughout history by Sunni co-coreligionists has often been characterized by brutal and genocidal acts.“
“The Ahmadiyya regard themselves as Muslims, but are seen by many other Muslims as non-Muslims and “heretics”. In 1984, the Government of Pakistan, under General Zia-ul-Haq, passed Ordinance XX,[6] which banned proselytizing by Ahmadis and also banned Ahmadis from referring to themselves as Muslims.“
“Hindus have been historically persecuted during Islamic rule of the Indian subcontinent and during Portuguese rule of Goa. In modern times, Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh have also suffered persecution.“
“Hazara people of central Afghanistan have been persecuted by Afghan rulers at various times in the history. Since the tragedy of 9/11, Sunni Muslim terrorists have been attacking the Hazara community in southwestern Pakistani town of Quetta, home to some 500000 Hazara who fled persecution in neighbouring Afghanistan. Some 2400 men, women and children have been killed or wounded with Lashkar-e-Jhangvi claiming responsibility for most of the attacks against the community.“
“…Along with Jews, Homosexuals and others, the Roma Gypsies were rounded by the Nazi Regime of Germany and sent to the death camps.“
Bahais speaks volumes about their ‘Persecution’ in Iran. But Baha’i is far from the largest persecuted group of people. Thus their claims that they are the one true religion using their persecution is not valid.
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Servant19
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OK, so we all have persecution in common.
The Baha’i Faith considers pretty much ALL the religions that have experienced persecutions from the list you just provided as true and correct.
So what else is on the list to identify the religion as the full truth?
Thankyou, that was a wonderful list and summary of true religions having many many deaths in the name of the Truth they hold dear
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Servant19
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Dear friend, the Baha’i Faith fully acknowledges and revers greatly the position Jesus holds in the Divine Plan.Take Jesus out of the equation and where do you think the Bahai would be?
MJ
Take Adam out of the equation and where do you think Christianity would be?
Is Adam the greatest man in history therefore?
(do you not get the feeling that sometimes one can fall for the trap of simply presenting arguments because their sole focus is to prove something as false? Why not reverse that, and try your very best to prove something as Truth? See how that makes you feel and how it adjusts your relationship with God?
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JamesCarr
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Wrong Servant. Your Baha’i faith embraces all faiths as one and claims it is the one true religion. But Baha’i does NOT embrace Mormonism, thus Mormons being persecuted too has every right also to claim their religion as true and that Baha’i is false.OK, so we all have persecution in common.
The Baha’i Faith considers pretty much ALL the religions that have experienced persecutions from the list you just provided as true and correct.
So what else is on the list to identify the religion as the full truth?
Thankyou, that was a wonderful list and summary of true religions having many many deaths in the name of the Truth they hold dear
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MartinJordan
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Jesus existed before Adam. You’re missing already too much of what has been taught long before former Shiites.Dear friend, the Baha’i Faith fully acknowledges and revers greatly the position Jesus holds in the Divine Plan.
Take Adam out of the equation and where do you think Christianity would be?
Is Adam the greatest man in history therefore?
(do you not get the feeling that sometimes one can fall for the trap of simply presenting arguments because their sole focus is to prove something as false? Why not reverse that, and try your very best to prove something as Truth? See how that makes you feel and how it adjusts your relationship with God?
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“And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.” John 17:5
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Servant19
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That’s why I used the words “pretty much”
Can you show me how many Mormons died in the name of their Faith when asked to “recant or die”?
Thankyou dear friend
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Servant19
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I agree, because He came down from heaven. In heaven, the Kingdom is eternal. Jesus came from heaven and was therefore eternal too.Jesus existed before Adam. You’re missing already too much of what has been taught long before former Shiites.
“And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence **with the glory **that I had with you before the world existed.” John 17:5
MJ
The question to you is how do you explain that Krishna was also alive before Adam?
We won’t even talk about the Bab and Baha’u’llah (simply because you will just tell me they copied Jesus
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JamesCarr
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Anytime Servant19.That’s why I used the words “pretty much”
Can you show me how many Mormons died in the name of their Faith when asked to “recant or die”?
Thankyou dear friend
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crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-17-1-b-the-persecution-of-the-mormons
mrm.org/violence-in-early-mormonism
You cannot refute those claims now.
And if you tell me to play the number game of deaths incurred for any faith to be its validity of being a one true religion, I am going to smack you because it will be plain childish. I hope it won’t come to that.
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Servant19
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Dear friend,
Maybe I have missed something and I would be happy to acknowledge all evidence, but I see nothing in these documents indicating the killing of Mormons because they would not recant their Faith.
Sure there were massacres, but there are massacres of all sorts of people due to religious or racial prejudice. This is not about the massacre, this is about the power of the Holy Spirit.
When asked to “recant or die” how many Mormons chose death?
Now having said all this, I am sure there will be some. For heavens sake, there are many deceivers out there who will trap many into thinking they are God, but the point that is being made is this…
What is it that made Peter acknowledge Jesus is the Son of the Living God?
What makes a religion the Truth.
Let us be honest, in terms of the lives they led, there is not much different between Jesus and Krishna, so why the uniqueness of Christ is clung to, at the extermination of all other Divine Beings?
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MartinJordan
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How do you know Krishna was alive before Adam? Did Krishna speak about God who created Adam at all?I agree, because He came down from heaven. In heaven, the Kingdom is eternal. Jesus came from heaven and was therefore eternal too.
The question to you is how do you explain that Krishna was also alive before Adam?
We won’t even talk about the Bab and Baha’u’llah (simply because you will just tell me they copied Jesus
MJ
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