One mortal sin from hell...

[steve_b]

Why not it says to confess your sins one to another , no where does it say Priest.

Take the full context of the passage from James

Jas 5:
[14] Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests πρεσβύτεροςpresbyteros] of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. [15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man: and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him.
[16] Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much. (Douay translation from the Vulgate))

The context is tell your sins to a priest.

The NT uses the term bishop, priest, elders and presbyters interchangeably.
over time the terms became specific
Episkopos=bishop
Presbyteros = priest, elder,

You can’t read back into scripture Protestant theology.

 

[Philthy]

You can’t read back into scripture Protestant theology.

Well, you can, but it simply means that you have read Scripture and misunderstood it to mean what you expect Scripture to tell you (ie your bias) rather than what it actually tells you…

That was an interesting and logical walk through James and John in arriving at the conclusion that confession to a priest is implicit - good job!

 

[Luvtosew]

Take the full context of the passage from James

Jas 5:
[14] Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests πρεσβύτεροςpresbyteros] of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. [15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man: and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him.
[16] Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much. (Douay translation from the Vulgate))

The context is tell your sins to a priest.

The NT uses the term bishop, priest, elders and presbyters interchangeably.
over time the terms became specific
Episkopos=bishop
Presbyteros = priest, elder,

You can’t read back into scripture Protestant theology.

I am aware of the verses you quoted. But I still don’t think it means personal auricle confession necessarily. I find it can mean an annointing of the sick more, and to have the elders (which is in two of my bibles, my caholic one says presbyters) pray over you for healing, or even the whole church members. and for that person to confesss sins which may be causing them quilt contributing to their illness. Never have I been too confession and had annointing of oil.
Certaintly you would want prayers from faithful people.

I also feel confessing your sins to one another means to make right with one another, if you cheat someone settle with him, and he can forgive you. I just don’t take either of these verses to mean go to auricle confession. God forgives sin and he is the only one that has the power to forgive sin ever.

Just the way I see it.

 

[brb3]

If Protestants tell their pastor about their sins and they pray together, that Protestant pastor can’t forgive mortal sins of another. … Jesus giving the apostles the power to forgive and retain sins,

The Protestant pasters never received their HOLY ORDERS, via that Sacrament. Thus, they can’t relate to what Christ is saying to the 12 … about Absolving their flock of confessed sin.

The Binding/Loosing passage is never really discussed in Protestant sermons or teachings. Its a mystery to them. Therefore, whenever someone has a problem, they ask the church to pray for them. Everyone is co-equal … the laity members can help you just as well as the pastor can. Prayer is key tradition for Protestant churches … God answers prayer. Spontaneous, contrite, personal prayer is the best way to obtain forgiveness from God. Protestants are taught to go into their room, and pray in secret to the Father, thru Christ. That is the way to obtain sure mercy from God.

And, for the Protestants, prayer is amazingly efficacious. God does forgive the mortal sins of Protestants … when they go straight to the High Priest, Christ. God in his great love, mercy, and desire to heal us … is greatly moved by the contrite prayer of Protestants, and much good for the Kingdom is gained by the Protestant faithful.

 

[brb3]

the issue at hand is mortal sin and it’s relationship to going to Hell. Some might misconstrue some of what you’ve posted to mean that we DONT need to repent since we have been SEALED in Christ and that because of this sealing we can never be condemned.

So I will ask you again YES or NO format:
Do you believe that because we are “sealed” in Christ that we cannot commit mortal sin and go to Hell? Yes or No?

Sealing … is just our being annointed with the H.S. Christ giving strength, assurance, and his counsel to us … via the Parclete. Enlightening our minds and hearts to his supernatural presence.

Salvation is two-fold. Water Baptism saves us of original & actual sin … Confirmation activates our Baptism, and makes us soldiers for the battle ahead. Confirmation is need to help us Persevere, [surviving the many battles against post-baptimal sin, and finishing the race via faith & gracious works].

Yes, all Christians face reality of Mortal sins, & have the potential to commit Apostasy. But, those that were never Confirmed are particularily vulnerable.

 

[steve_b]

I am aware of the verses you quoted. But I still don’t think it means personal*** auricle confession*** necessarily. I find it can mean an annointing of the sick more, and to have the elders (which is in two of my bibles, my caholic one says presbyters) pray over you for healing, or even the whole church members. and for that person to confesss sins which may be causing them quilt contributing to their illness. Never have I been too confession and had annointing of oil.

When Jesus gave those He ordained the power to forgive and retain sins [Jn 20:23] , how does one who can forgive another person’s personal sins, do that if they don’t know what those sins are? It presumes confession of one’s sins to another who can forgive them.

Certaintly you would want prayers from faithful people.

Sure. But we’re talking about mortal sin.
L:

I also feel confessing your sins to one another means to make right with one another, if you cheat someone settle with him, and he can forgive you. I just don’t take either of these verses to mean go to auricle confession.

You’re seeing only part of what John is saying. Yes, If either one of us offends the other in some minor way,

• we forgive each other, for such wrongs. And as John says God forgives the wrong. But it also goes without saying, I can’t forgive you for what you do to others, nor can you do that for me…right?
• But what about mortal sin? John specifically says, prayer is not enough for forgiveness. Did you see that distinction John made?

Examples of mortal sin

• fornication, adultery, all forms of immorality.

How do we know they are mortal? When you see consequences like

• will not inherit the kingdom of God, or heaven
• the wrath of God is coming on a person

you know that’s mortal sin.

For example:

1 Cor 6:
Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, * 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:19…
19* Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, * drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Col 3:
5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming.

Remember, John is making a distinction between mortal and non mortal (venial) sins regarding forgiveness.
L:

God forgives sin and he is the only one that has the power to forgive sin ever.

Just the way I see it.

Of course God is the one who forgives sins. But He also gave others He ordained the power to forgive sins also. Don’t make the same mistake the Pharisees made, when they challenged Jesus after He forgave sins. Remember when they said Hey!!! only God can forgive sins [Mk 2:6…]

2 things were going on there.

1. • they didn’t recognize Jesus as God, ergo He had no authority to forgve sins
   • He couldn’t give the power to others He chose to forgive sins either.
   don’t put yourself in that same camp

 

[steve_b]

The Protestant pasters never received their HOLY ORDERS, via that Sacrament. Thus, they can’t relate to what Christ is saying to the 12 … about Absolving their flock of confessed sin

It’s not that they can’t relate. They have no authority/power to forgive mortal sins.

brb:

The Binding/Loosing passage is never really discussed in Protestant sermons or teachings. Its a mystery to them. Therefore, whenever someone has a problem, they ask the church to pray for them. Everyone is co-equal … the laity members can help you just as well as the pastor can. Prayer is key tradition for Protestant churches … God answers prayer. Spontaneous, contrite, personal prayer is the best way to obtain forgiveness from God.

That’s fine for non mortal sin but not so for mortal sin.

brb:

Protestants are taught to go into their room, and pray in secret to the Father, thru Christ. That is the way to obtain sure mercy from God.

Again, that’s fine for non mortal sin, but not so for mortal sin

brb:

And, for the Protestants, prayer is amazingly efficacious. God does forgive the mortal sins of Protestants … when they go straight to the High Priest, Christ.

Do they have 1 Jn 5:16…… in their bible? Yes. So being sola scriptura folks they know those passages are there that we are talking about. And they see that’s NOT how John says mortal sin is forgiven.

brb:

God in his great love, mercy, and desire to heal us … is greatly moved by the contrite prayer of Protestants, and much good for the Kingdom is gained by the Protestant faithful.

When Jesus said to His apostles, He’s sending them the HS (Advocate) who will remind them all that Jesus has taught them. [Jn 14:26]

So, when a Protestant goes to Jesus with a mortal sin, what do you suppose Jesus would say to them as a response?

• You’re divided from my Church.[Rom 16:17-21] The pilar and foundation of truth [1 Tim 3:15] End your division, for the salvation of your soul [Gal 5:19-21] become a Catholic and confess your sins to my priests of my Church?[Jas 5:14-16]

The HS gurantees John and James and Paul are teaching what Jesus taught [Jn 14:26]. That means Jesus wanted John and James to remember to teach about mortal sin vs non mortal sin, and confession to a priest for the forgiveness of sin…

btw, Let’s not forget, James and 1 Jn, are Catholic epistles

 

[brb3]

Again, that’s fine for non mortal sin, but not so for mortal sin

Do they have 1 Jn 5:16…… in their bible? Yes. So being sola scriptura folks they know those passages are there that we are talking about. And they see that’s NOT how John says mortal sin is forgiven.

steve b …

You know 1 John 5:16 … DOES NOT SAY that one can’t confess a Mortal Sin to Christ and be forgiven of it. Rather, it says ANOTHER person [probably a layman] can’t do this for us. I leave open the granting to an ORDAINED PRIEST that they can … since that is a Binding/Loosening right given to the Catholic Clergy.

We can’t use intercessary prayer, on behalf of another, to obtain forgiveness of their MORTAL sins. Even a Priest can’t do this for us, …unless we confess to him an desire Absolution thereof.
Thus, the laity obtains forgiveness for their Mortals just as the LORD taught us in the LORD’s PRAYER !!! We must personally confess to Christ, repent of that Sin, and desire mercy, … not Judgment [this is Normative for the Protestant Christian]. But, for Catholics, with Ordained Priests, we should do BOTH. First to Christ, then to our Priest.

Now, … show me in Scripture where Christ taught we can’t [or shouldn’t] approach him directly in prayer/repentance to obtain mercy & forgiveness?

 

[brb3]

steve b –

Let St. John himself speak to this matter of mortal sinning … from the whole Book, to give us context.

1 John 1:5-9 THIS IS THE MESSAGE WE HAVE HEARD FROM HIM AND PROCLAIM TO YOU, that God is light and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth; but IF WE WALK IN THE LIGHT, as he is in the light, we have FELLOWSHIP WITH ONE ANOTHER, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from ALL SIN. If we CONFESS OUR SINS, HE IS FAITHFUL AND JUST, AND WILL FORGIVE OUR SINS and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

.....so the above says we [laity & clergy] can/should confess ALL sins [mortal and venial]

1 John2:1-3 My little children, I am writing this to you so that you MAY NOT SIN; BUT IF ANY ONE DOES SIN, WE HAVE AND ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER, JESUS CHRIST THE RIGHTEOUS; AND HE IS THE EXPIATION FOR OUR SINS, AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.

1 John 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. HE WHO CONFESSES THE SON HAS THE FATHER ALSO.

1 John 3:9-10 No one born of God COMMITS SINS; for God’s NATURE ABIDES IN HIM, AND HE CANNOT SIN because he is born of God. By this it may be seen who are children of God, and who are the children of the devil; WHOEVER DOES NOT DO RIGHT IS NOT OF GOD, NOR HE WHO DOES NOT LOVE HIS BROTHER.

1 John 3:18 Little children, let us NOT LOVE IN WORD OR SPEECH BUT IN DEED AND IN TRUTH.

1 John 3:21-22 Beloved, if your HEARTS DO NOT CONDEMN US, WE HAVE CONFIDENCE BEFORE GOD, AND WE RECEIVE FROM HIM WHATEVER WE ASK, BECAUSE WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND DO whatever pleases him.

[so, we [laity & clergy] ... can confidently come before God, and receive our petitions via our confessions / meditations / prayers].

1 John 4:15 WHOEVER CONFESSES THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD, GOD ABIDES IN HIM, AND HE IS IN GOD.

1 John 4:17-18 In this is love perfected with us, that we MAY HAVE CONFIDENCE FOR THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, BECAUSE AS HE IS SO ARE WE in this world. THERE IS NO FEAR IN LOVE, BUT PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT FEAR. For fear has to do with PUNISHMENT, AND HE WHO FEARS IS NOT PERFECTED IN LOVE.

1 John 5:13-15 I write this to YOU WHO BELIEVE in the name of the Son of God, THAT YOU MAY KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. And this IS THE CONFIDENCE WHICH WE HAVE IN HIM, THAT IF WE ASK ANYTHING ACCORDING TO HIS WILL HE HEARS US. And if we know that HE HEARS US IN WHATEVER WE ASK, WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE OBTAINED THE REQUESTS MADE OF HIM.

so again, we can ask Christ for forgiveness of venial & mortal sins … and receive Absolution from our High Priest].
now comes the verses you quote /// 16-17 . and I will give my interpretation thereof.

"if ANY ONE both laity or clergy] sees his brother [fellow Chrisitian] committing what is not a mortal sin, he [both laity or clergy] will ask, and God will give him [the petitioner] life [absolution / clemency] for those brother/sister Christians] whose sin is not mortal; I DO NOT SAY THAT ONE [a Christian] is to pray for that. ALL WRONGDOING IS SIN, but there is sin which is NOT MORTAL.

Am I wrong.

 

[steve_b]

steve b …

You know 1 John 5:16 … DOES NOT SAY that one can’t confess a Mortal Sin to Christ and be forgiven of it. Rather, it says ANOTHER person [probably a layman] can’t do this for us.

You’re misreading the passage.

brb:

I leave open the granting to an ORDAINED PRIEST that they can … since that is a Binding/Loosening right given to the Catholic Clergy.

We can’t use intercessary prayer, on behalf of another, to obtain forgiveness of their MORTAL sins. Even a Priest can’t do this for us, …unless we confess to him an desire Absolution thereof.
Thus, the laity obtains forgiveness for their Mortals just as the LORD taught us in the LORD’s PRAYER !!! We must personally confess to Christ, repent of that Sin, and desire mercy, … not Judgment [this is Normative for the Protestant Christian]. But, for Catholics, with Ordained Priests, we should do BOTH. First to Christ, then to our Priest.

Now, … show me in Scripture where Christ taught we can’t [or shouldn’t] approach him directly in prayer/repentance to obtain mercy & forgiveness?

Who told John to say the following?

1 Jn 5:
16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God * will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

Who is the “he” in that passage? The sinner, someone else, both?

If one’s prayer was enough for forgivness of their mortal sin(s) end of story, why does the Church teach the following?

**1457 **According to the Church’s command, “after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year.” Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession. Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.

iow, grave reason would be receiving the Eucharist in the state of mortal sin, because they are in danger of actual death. As I said previously, if one pulls through, and they don’t die, then they must go ASAP to confession and receive sacramental absolution.

Look at that passage again from John. The apostles were sent the Advocate (HS) by Jesus so the HS will remind them everything that Jesus ever taught them.[Jn 14:26]. That goes for teaching about mortal sin also.

 

[steve_b]

steve b –

Let St. John himself speak to this matter of mortal sinning … from the whole Book, to give us context.

1 John 1:5-9 THIS IS THE MESSAGE WE HAVE HEARD FROM HIM AND PROCLAIM TO YOU, that God is light and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth; but IF WE WALK IN THE LIGHT, as he is in the light, we have FELLOWSHIP WITH ONE ANOTHER, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from ALL SIN. If we CONFESS OUR SINS, HE IS FAITHFUL AND JUST, AND WILL FORGIVE OUR SINS and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

…so the above says we [laity & clergy] can/should confess ALL sins [mortal and venial]

1 John2:1-3 My little children, I am writing this to you so that you MAY NOT SIN; BUT IF ANY ONE DOES SIN, WE HAVE AND ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER, JESUS CHRIST THE RIGHTEOUS; AND HE IS THE EXPIATION FOR OUR SINS, AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.

1 John 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. HE WHO CONFESSES THE SON HAS THE FATHER ALSO.

1 John 3:9-10 No one born of God COMMITS SINS; for God’s NATURE ABIDES IN HIM, AND HE CANNOT SIN because he is born of God. By this it may be seen who are children of God, and who are the children of the devil; WHOEVER DOES NOT DO RIGHT IS NOT OF GOD, NOR HE WHO DOES NOT LOVE HIS BROTHER.

1 John 3:18 Little children, let us NOT LOVE IN WORD OR SPEECH BUT IN DEED AND IN TRUTH.

1 John 3:21-22 Beloved, if your HEARTS DO NOT CONDEMN US, WE HAVE CONFIDENCE BEFORE GOD, AND WE RECEIVE FROM HIM WHATEVER WE ASK, BECAUSE WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND DO whatever pleases him.

[so, we [laity & clergy] … can confidently come before God, and receive our petitions via our confessions / meditations / prayers].

1 John 4:15 WHOEVER CONFESSES THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD, GOD ABIDES IN HIM, AND HE IS IN GOD.

1 John 4:17-18 In this is love perfected with us, that we MAY HAVE CONFIDENCE FOR THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, BECAUSE AS HE IS SO ARE WE in this world. THERE IS NO FEAR IN LOVE, BUT PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT FEAR. For fear has to do with PUNISHMENT, AND HE WHO FEARS IS NOT PERFECTED IN LOVE.

1 John 5:13-15 I write this to YOU WHO BELIEVE in the name of the Son of God, THAT YOU MAY KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. And this IS THE CONFIDENCE WHICH WE HAVE IN HIM, THAT IF WE ASK ANYTHING ACCORDING TO HIS WILL HE HEARS US. And if we know that HE HEARS US IN WHATEVER WE ASK, WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE OBTAINED THE REQUESTS MADE OF HIM.

so again, we can ask Christ for forgiveness of venial & mortal sins … and receive Absolution from our High Priest].

Would you have John contradicting himself?

1 Jn 5:
16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God * will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

If you aren’t sorry for your venial sins, can my prayers for you supplant your will for forgiveness with God even though you aren’t sorry? I don’t think so. You need to be sorry for your own sins in order to be forgiven by God.

Now what about mortal sin? John specifically said, that merely praying for mortal sin is not enough. iow Jesus taught this and the HS is reminding John of what Jesus taught… [Jn 14:26].That’s why Jesus gave the power to forgive and retain sins to those He ordained. That’s why James taught, call in the priests of the Church and confess your sins for the forgiveness sins. The context is confession to the priest. If one does all that Jesus commands, then all the other passages you quote make sense.

If prayer alone was enough for the forgiveness of mortal sin there would be no need for what John said, and there would be no need for what the Church says

**1457 **According to the Church’s command, “after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year.” Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession. Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.

 

[brb3]

steve b …

Now, … show me in Scripture where Christ taught we can’t [or shouldn’t] approach him directly in prayer/repentance to obtain mercy & forgiveness?

steve b …

again I ask the above question. John, the Beloved, doesn’t quote Christ saying otherwise. And Peter, our First Pope and chief Apostle doesn’t either. I also haven’t found it in the Gospels.

If I’m wrong … cite chapter & verse to refute.

 

[brb3]

1 Jn 5:

16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God * will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

If any one laity or priest] sees his brother [Christian] committing what is not a mortal sin, he [laity or priest] will ask petition ] and God will give him [laity or priest] life graceful forgiveness ] for those [fellow Brother/Sister Christians] whose sin is not mortal. It do not say that one [laity or priest] is to pray for that another’s mortal sin ]. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

This is the best way I can see to interpret the above scripture of John. Please replace my bracketed words ] with yours … and let me see how you would make sense of these passages.

 

[steve_b]

If any one laity or priest] sees his brother [Christian] committing what is not a mortal sin, he [laity or priest] will ask petition ] and God will give him [laity or priest] life graceful forgiveness ] for those [fellow Brother/Sister Christians] whose sin is not mortal.

I’m curious, do you think this is talking about an episode without an actual face to face encounter with the parties in question?

iow do you think this is describing something witnessed from a distance but no interaction is going on between the parties? If so, I think there is some confusion here.

brb:

It do not say that one [laity or priest] is to pray for that another’s mortal sin ]. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

The point is, John is saying prayer alone (by the offender, or the concerned party interceeding) is not enough for forgiveness of mortal sin. That’s what John is saying. Venial sin…no problem. Not so for mortal sin.

All I can say is, the Church takes a different view from yours

The CCC which I have quoted several times already, should make the point.

**1457 **According to the Church’s command, “after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year.” Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession. Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.

If prayer is enough for the forgiveness of mortal sin, (we’re not talking about someone interceeding, we are talking about the actual offender) then going to communion after PRAYER AND REPENTANCE, is okay…this is what I’m sensing you’re arguing for. But as you can see it’s NOTthat way. Do you see that?

John takes a different position from what you think he says, and the Church confirms it.

My last point is one I’ve made before. The Advocate (HS) was given to the apostles to cause them to remember all that Jesus taught them. [Jn 14:26].While Jesus isn’t recorded as mentioning mortal and venial sins, John does, which shows Jesus taught it. I don’t think it’s coincidental John records in the last sentence of his gospel, that if all that Jesus did was recorded, all the libraries in the world couldn’t record it (paraphrased)

But John does make this very clear distinction. And we know that confession to a validly ordained priest is what’s called for scripturally for the forgiveness of ALL sin inclusing mortal sins, ergo that’s what Jesus taught.

 

[Philthy]

Now, … show me in Scripture where Christ taught we can’t [or shouldn’t] approach him directly in prayer/repentance to obtain mercy & forgiveness?

“we”? “directly”? Please define these terms as intended for the above and cite your scriptural source that justifies that usage. Without giving it much thought, I’d say His giving the Apostles the gift of the Holy Spirit so that they could forgive sins means he intended them to use it. Why would he do that if people were only supposed to “approach him directly in prayer/repentance to obtain mercy & forgiveness?” And just so you know, I do believe that we can approach God seeking forgiveness through prayer and I do it regularly. When I commit a grave sin, however, I approach Him and I make haste to receive sacrament absolution.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

“Work out your salvation with fear and trembling”

Either believe the Holy Spirit Who inspired these words of Holy scripture and do what He says

OR

Don’t believe the Holy Spirit–don’t fear–don’t work out your salvation with fear and trembling and wind up from your own choice in Hell!

It really is that simple!

 

[brb3]

The point is, John is saying prayer alone (by the offender, or the concerned party interceeding) is not enough for forgiveness of mortal sin. That’s what John is saying. Venial sin…no problem. Not so for mortal sin.

Yes … venial sins !! We, can only pray for another’s venial sins to be removed from them.

Mortal sins … we can’t. Mortal sins require contrite confession by the offender, to Christ. And, they will be removed from us by Christ … if we forgive “those who tresspass against us”. Thus, the Lord’s Prayer is speaking to MORTAL SINS !!! We first confess them to Christ, and secondly we go before our Catholic Priests and ‘blame/judge’ ourselves for our errs. And, we allow the Priest to assign us Penance — so as to educate us about our Sinning & help us break old, bad habits and FORM NEW, GOOD HABITS.

‘Spare the rod and spoil the child’ … applies even to adults, with regards to our Mortal sinning.

 

[brb3]

“we”? “directly”? Please define these terms as intended for the above and cite your scriptural source that justifies that usage.

]

Sorry, but I asked you to cite a scriptural source to justify.

Which you could not …

 

[steve_b]

Yes … venial sins !! We, can only pray for another’s venial sins to be removed from them.

Mortal sins … we can’t. Mortal sins require contrite confession by the offender, to Christ. And, they will be removed from us by Christ … if we forgive “those who tresspass against us”. Thus, the Lord’s Prayer is speaking to MORTAL SINS !!! We first confess them to Christ, and secondly we go before our Catholic Priests and 'blame/judge’ ourselves for our errs. And, *we *allow the Priest to assign us Penance — so as to educate us about our Sinning & help us break old, bad habits and FORM NEW, GOOD HABITS.

‘Spare the rod and spoil the child’ … applies even to adults, with regards to our Mortal sinning.

Is that all the priest can do in the process?

Let me ask you. Assuming a priest is available and you’re not on your deathbed. If one doesn’t get absolved in the sacrament of confession/reconciliation of mortal sin, and only prays for forgiveness, is the person still forgiven of mortal sin?

 

[brb3]

1). Is that all the priest can do in the process?

2). Assuming a priest is available and you’re not on your deathbed. If one doesn’t get absolved in the sacrament of confession/reconciliation of mortal sin, and only prays for forgiveness, is the person still forgiven of mortal sin?

1. Hear our confession, make sure it is truly contrite, make further inquires to make sure all sins are being confessed, clarify mortal sins from venial ones, help us understand the basis behind our sins being confessed, give out wise counsel to aid us in overcoming bad habits, Absolve us of all confessed sins and assign penanace to help us not commit same sin again.
2. Yes !! Christ hears all contrite confessions and forgives those confessed , when a priest is not located in time. Example: boys in FOXHOLES, wounded and dieing.
   But, if priest is called for … and arrives in time, both Christians and Heathen may appeal / confess to the priest and receive last rites. Indeed the Priest, if enuf time was granted by the Lord, and the wounded soldier desires … could hear Confession, Baptize and Confirm the wounded soldier, and offer them the Eucharist.

But, if a cradle Catholic, who had foregone receiving Confirmation by choice, and knowingly declines the last rites of a Priest … that would be very Problematic. He could not plead ignorance as his excuse, … as the Protestant and Heathen might claim.

Now, if a Protestant is not on his deathbed, but is fearful a bullet has his number on it … he can always confess to Christ, and receive forgiveness … but, penance may be delayed, and served out later in this life, or perhaps in Purgatory.