One of the men who threw the Idols (Pachamama) in the Tiber speaks!

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Babaganoush said:
It is better that there should be controversy than that idols should be worshiped in a Catholic Church.
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And what if, as I believe, this event was a movement of the Holy Spirit helping the Church to listen and understand the faith of the people they are evangelising? A missionary work to recognise what is good and worthy in the faith of others who innately experience gratitude for the earth that nourishes them and can be respectfully fulfilled by then hearing the Gospel?
 
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scandal causes people to throw these into the tiber

scandal causes priests to burn them

scandal causes bishops to call for days of reparation

scandal causes people to gravitate to other forms of worship

all because lack of wisdom, and research , causes these things to be used the way they were
 
Its so prevalent. the scandal.

by all means have synods and plenary councils but dont throw the baby out with the bathwater as the idiom goes
 
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GiftofMercy said:
Its so prevalent. the scandal.

by all means have synods and plenary councils but dont throw the baby out with the bathwater as the idiom goes
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From my own perspective, the grave scandal caused by the violent zealots who believe themselves to be more Catholic than the Pope, is the real issue.
 
GiftofMercy said:
How about you get quotes rendering the people in the ceremony were not idolising , those on the ground, those turning pews away from the tabernacle and alters and into a circle with a candle lit pa…mama at the centre and praying or whatever they were doung
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You’re grasping at straws here. You’re looking at pictures and accusing of something that they maybe not be guilty of.
You are the one accusing them of idol worship. The pope said the statues “were there without idolatrous intentions”. The burden of proof rest on you to prove the pope is a liar or as you put it
“GiftofMercy said:
he is not speaking for everyone. just himself
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GiftofMercy said:
when my pope calls it by its name, the name known by those who know of it, and then says

no idoltorous intentions,

first he is using its title, its name, what it is, then he has to qualify this by saying no intentions, he cannot speak for everyone there, he does not. and clearly with what happens with candle lighting and pew turning in a church,
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So when he calls it Pachamama he speaks for everyone?
". . . the native woman who presided over the service, and Fr. Roberto Rojas, the priest who was interviewed by Rome Reports
and who was the organizer of the exhibit in the Church of Santa Maria in Transpontina. Both of them referred to the figures
as “Our Lady of the Amazon.”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1181216431859539968
 
A thing is what it is, no matter what someone calls it. But a persons intentions are their own and no one can speak for another. The pope can label the objects what they are but he can’t speak of anyone’s intentions but his own.
 
Let’s consider such situation: someone displays in public place (for example onto facade of some building) porn movie. Then he says, “I am totally not looking at that”. Even if he is really not looking would you consider this situation all right?
 
New Modernist 1st Commandment: “I am the Lord your God, you shall not have Other Gods before me, unless you bring false idols into my House without idolatrous intent, then no biggie”
 
This is not a case of stealing, as I explained in my Post #86 above. Therefore, all your quotes from the CCC are irrelevant and not applicable in this case.
goout said:
Using some of the thinking here:
Jesus would have gathered his followers, went down to the temple, stole various items and thrown them into the Jordan to score points for his way.
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Yes, Christ could have done that. But He decided to do something better. He did not merely overthrow the tables and chairs of money changers. He also made a scourge of little cords and drove them all out of the temple (See John 2:15)

The prelates responsible for putting the idols in the church are very lucky because the Austrians only cast the idols into the Tiber. If they had followed Christ’s example to the letter, they would have thrown the prelates (who put those idols in the church) into the Tiber, too.
 
rom said:
This is not a case of stealing, as I explained in my Post #86 above. Therefore, all your quotes from the CCC are irrelevant and not applicable in this case.
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goout:
Using some of the thinking here:
Jesus would have gathered his followers, went down to the temple, stole various items and thrown them into the Jordan to score points for his way.
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Yes, Christ could have done that. But He decided to do something better. He did not merely overthrow the tables and chairs of money changers. He also made a scourge of little cords and drove them all out of the temple (See John 2:15)

The prelates responsible for putting the idols in the church are very lucky because the Austrians only cast the idols into the Tiber. If they had followed Christ’s example to the letter, they would have thrown the prelates (who put those idols in the church) into the Tiber, too.
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It is stealing. By definition.
You are not above the catechism or the Church’s moral teaching.
You may not do evil so that good might result.
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and maybe the greatest evil here is he damages the good will concerns of many Catholics specifically in the area of idolatry.
The very cause he is trumpeting, he has damaged.

He took a serious concern and turned it into a teen-aged stunt.
 
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This is not a case of theft, as I explained in my Post #86 above. Your quotes from the CCC are irrelevant.
 
Actually your post in #86 does not deal with theft. It seems you were giving an explanation on why you think it’s not theft. Furthermore, the CCC is not irrelevant considering it deals with the very theft that happen in the Church
 
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per your logic, taking a gun from a mass shooter who enters the Church is also theft.

to be theft, it must be “unjust” taking of property, which would not be case for taking the gun or a false idol from a Church, since in both cases you’re preventing a far greater evil from taking place.
 
Aquinas11 said:
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goout:
we now have an entrenched circus where there ought to be serious discussion
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goout said:
This was not a productive action.
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Ok so what should they have done? What was the “productive action” that would have caused a “serious discussion” to remedy the Idols in the Church? Let’s hear it.
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The good possibilities are endless. They could have kept a prayer vigil at the Church. They could have even carried signs out front in a vigil. The guy could have swam in the Tiber himself or walked back to Austria to draw attention to the problem.
 
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