One Right Answer

[Scullinius]

Jodi:

It would be easier for me if I could just believe he was being led away by satan but I know that is not the case.

What is it that you’re seeing that makes you so sure?

Jodi:

So I am in darkness not understanding God’s plan.

My husband has explained that joining the LDS faith helped him come to the point where he could see the truths that the Catholics teach more clearly so that he was being prepared to take the steps that he is now taking.

I had a similar experience with Shambhala Buddhism. There’s a lot of truth in Buddhism, but I never seriously considered becoming an avowed Buddhist (to become a “real Buddhist” you take what are called the three “refuge vows”). But the more I went to the weekly “dharma gatherings,” the more angry I got. Buddhism teaches that suffering – indeed, “unsatisfactoriness” in general – are inherent in life and unavoidable, no matter what we do. The goal of Buddhism is to reduce suffering by cultivating detachment. There is no attempt to discover or explain WHY unsatisfactoriness is inherent in life, or to discover any meaning in it. In those days I had a belief in the divine origin of the universe that I could neither shake nor defend. But I knew that Buddhism left a lot of questions unanswered: where did I come from, why am I here, and where am I going? The Buddha says, somewhere, in one of the sutras, that questions about the existence of God are not worth our time because “they do not tend toward edification.” Granted, he lived five centuries before Christ, but that does not change the fact that he could not be more wrong!

It wasn’t until I came “back” to the Church (I was baptized as an infant but never catechized or raised in the Church) that I realized that there ARE answers to all those questions – that there is a God, He does love us, and He wants us to live His life here on Earth and be with Him forever.

I was ready. Perhaps your husband in on a similar path. Of course, my family has always been Irish Catholic, so I’ve always identified with the Church – even in the Dark Ages of my life when I couldn’t tolerate even LOOKING at a prayer card with the Holy Face of Jesus on it.

(Thank you, thank you, thank you, Holy Spirit.)

Jodi:

My problem is that I am terribly confused. I know that as a couple in the LDS church we were not progressing as God would want us too. Is his leaving the church as punishment for our failure to progress as he desired? Do we need this conflict of beliefs to keep both of us growing? Is my husband being strengthened and will then return or is he paving the way for me to follow? I have no answers even after weeks of prayer, fasting, scripture study and more prayer. I know the Lord will not tire of my strugle so I have hope.

Well, I’m a Catholic, so I would say that no, God is not punishing you for leaving the Mormon Church – he’s inviting you into the Catholic Church. This is a great gift. As a Catholic, I pray that your husband is being strengthened so that he can pave the way for you to follow. But that is the Holy Spirit’s work.

I know that the Lord will not tire of your struggle either. And I won’t tire of hearing about it!

Jodi:

Please keep me in your prayers.

You got it.

 

[st_felicity]

Curious–Lisa is right–LOOK where you are! You are here…and you will know them by their fruits…

Also–I second (third, fourth, or fifth…) the suggestion to go sit before the Blessed Sacrament and ask God. (It’s the Year of the Eucharist, you know…)

I am a convert (from Baptist)–and the Catholic Church, with all its glorious beauty and all its warts, is home.

I think my mother is in very much the same place you are–I’m going to print off this thread–I want to give it to her…Please pray for us–that I have the guts to give it to her, and that she receive it with love…

I love you Mom!

 

[Lorarose]

Either Martin Luther was a hero who helped people see the truth and rescued them from the Catholic Church, or he was a misguided, self-serving person who caused one of the biggest schisms ever.

Why does it have to be “either” “or” with Luther.
He was a complicated human being.
He was right to be upset about corruption.
He was wrong to attempt to change doctrine according to his own interpretation - and wrong to change the scriptures.
There was both good and bad - like there is with all of us.

God did leave us one truth. He left us the Church.
It can be difficult to accept the Church teachings at times - because like rebellious children we often hear things we don’t want to hear.
But since the Church guards the deposit of faith given to the apostle she is obligated to repeat these truths to us time after time.
Will we listen?

I agree with other posters who suggest that time spent praying in front of the Blessed Sacrament will help guide you on this.

 

[Katholikos]

Curious:

And K!!! Thou shalt not give me a hard time. You knew exactly what I meant. Yes I know where you’re coming from but I have a hard enough time articulating as it is. I was just trying to make it simpler. Bad K!! :tsktsk:

I didn’t mean to give you a hard time, youngun’. I based my comments on your words – but please understand I wasn’t writing just for you, little one. I write for others who will read your words and my response – and we may never hear from them. I write for the newbies and the lurkers and for those whose noses are pressed against the stained glass windows of the Church, trying to see inside. And for Catholics who don’t know their faith very well.

Most Protestants think every church is based on an interpretation of the Bible – including the Catholic Church. I can say that, 'cause I used to be one and I know how I thought – and how my friends and associates thought as well.

I used to think the NT was an instruction book in Christianity and all I had to do was read it and I’d know all I needed to know about God and how to get to heaven. But the NT is a record of the spiritual life of the newborn Catholic Church during the first 100 years or so of its existence. It was never intended as an instruction book, but that’s what Luther tried to make it. It’s the Church’s divinely inspired “family album.”

Christ didn’t leave us a book – He left us the Catholic Church as our teacher. The Church, in turn, wrote the NT and formed the Bible at the end of the fourth century.

Let me be the third one to say this to you: Go to a Catholic Church – you’ll find Someone waiting for you there. Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament is waiting for you. St. John Vianney told the story of a man who sat for hours in front of the Blessed Sacrament. When the man was asked what he did all that time, he answered: “I look at Him and He looks at me.” You don’t need to feel obligated to say anything. Just BE.
JMJ Jay

 

[Scullinius]

Katholikos:

But the NT is a record of the spiritual life of the newborn Catholic Church during the first 100 years or so of its existence.

Never heard it put quite that way.

 

[Ruth101]

Curious:

People,

Forgive me for whining. You may view this is as a cry of frustration, a cry for the truth, the cry of a big fat whiny baby. Whatever.

We talk and compare and contrast about the differences between Catholic and Protestant. We talk and compare and contrast about the differences among the trillion zillion Protestant denominations.
But in all this, I think it’s clear that Catholics and MOST Protestants do base their doctrines/beliefs from the Bible. Most Christians don’t pull what they believe out of thin air. The arguments come down to who is misinterpreting.

Someone has to be right. I was pretty annoyed today and prayed, and asked God, “Why? Why did you not just spell everything out for us? Why did you not just tell us what you want? With so much misinterpration how can we held accountable for some of this stuff?” Of course I don’t *really *blame God for this…but I was venting. But God does not seem to be the kind of guy who says “well yeah whatever works.” Is He not a God of absolutes? Guys, there has to be ONE RIGHT ANSWER to most of our differences doesn’t there?

So as a product of my reading all these Catholic things, my brain pleasantly replied, paraphrasing something I"d read a week or two ago, “God did not abandon you to fumble and make all kinds of mistakes. His Church is there to interpret correctly”

I realize that I’m not the first person to be an agony about these things, and I surely won’t be the last. But misinterpreting things like whether or not music should be played in church services differs quite a bit from misinterpreting things like salvation and faith and such.

Protestants - which denom is right? Do we really have to just pick something we like and hope to God the doctrine is halfway sound and that God will have mercy on our errors?
Catholics - are YOU right?

Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Romans 10:9-11 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
1 John 5:20-21 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[puzzleannie]

a little snail is meandering slowly on its path. It is seeking the garden and the little pond there, its natural home, but is actually going in the wrong direction, headed for a brick wall. the kindly gardender picks up the little snail, sets it on the edge of the garden path, pointed in the right direction. Has the gardener punished the snail for following the wrong path?

quote function did not work for some reason, this is intended as a question for the LDS couple above

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Romans 10:9-11 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
1 John 5:20-21 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Curious,this is case in point This person cut out certain scriptures to support what they want to believe.The hard verses are written off as symbolic or given a meaning that makes not sense whatsoever.For instance,the Holy Spirit is suppose to lead all into truth…Well Is the Holy Spirit suffering from multiple personality disorder?Or did the Holy Spirit disappear until Martin Luther came on the scene?What has been the consequences of Martin Luther?Does God divide and break off His Church?What is very striking to me is the characters that come in here saying we are evil Going to hell What did the scribes and Pharasees say about Jesus,they cut him down using scripture They accused him of being in league with the devil Jesus promised persecution ot His followers and Church.Have you watched the news lately?Look at the boards on other protestant sites,what do most have in common?God Bless

 

[Curious]

I write for others who will read your words and my response – and we may never hear from them. I write for the newbies and the lurkers and for those whose noses are pressed against the stained glass windows of the Church, trying to see inside. And for Catholics who don’t know their faith very well.

Well. okay then.

To Ruth: those are very nice scriptures. I do like the scriptures.

Well…I’ll go if the church is even open smack in the middle of the day. Most churches I’ve been to are locked when services aren’t going on. Next week I’ll try to go.

That is one thing I’ve been leading toward. At least the Catholic Church is old…the oldest I suppose. (I still haven’t done any history yet). And Protestants seem as guilty of making the Bible an idol to worship as we/they accuse Catholics of doing with statues. I find myself doing the same. To me/us, the Bible is the end all be all of all authority. You say it is not. That’s another confusing thing…how to regard the Bible. A family album? That just seems to downplay it to me.

Still a long way to go.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Curious:

Well. okay then.

To Ruth: those are very nice scriptures. I do like the scriptures.

Well…I’ll go if the church is even open smack in the middle of the day. Most churches I’ve been to are locked when services aren’t going on. Next week I’ll try to go.

That is one thing I’ve been leading toward. At least the Catholic Church is old…the oldest I suppose. (I still haven’t done any history yet). And Protestants seem as guilty of making the Bible an idol to worship as we/they accuse Catholics of doing with statues. I find myself doing the same. To me/us, the Bible is the end all be all of all authority. You say it is not. That’s another confusing thing…how to regard the Bible. A family album? That just seems to downplay it to me.

Still a long way to go.

No the Bible is not being down played,the Bible was put into canon by Catholics.So before the printing presses how was everyone taught about Jesus?Were they doomed?God Bless

 

[Curious]

Oh I forgot

Actually, just think about it logically. We’re all sinners. To say that each of us has the power to bind and loose our own sins makes no sense. To me that seems to say that we each have the power to absolve our own sins, or not. But if sin means anything – that is, if sin is an offense against God – we cannot do that.

The teaching I"ve always heard, Lisa, is that this power of binding and loosing has nothing to do with sins, but devils.

Originally Posted by Jodi
Please keep me in your prayers.

I will

 

[st_felicity]

Curious:

Well…I’ll go if the church is even open smack in the middle of the day. Most churches I’ve been to are locked when services aren’t going on. Next week I’ll try to go.

Go to a Church that has a perpetual adoration chapel–someone is always there with Jesus. If the doors are locked, there usually is a doorbell and they will let you in (at least that’s how it works around here…)

 

[Scullinius]

Curious:

The teaching I"ve always heard, Lisa, is that this power of binding and loosing has nothing to do with sins, but devils.

That wasn’t Lisa who said that; that was me. So individuals have the power to bind devils? That doesn’t make sense. We can resist them, sure, but… bind them? Since when does earthly man bind fallen angels?

Well, the way you were taught was certainly consistent with the rejection of the doctrine of apostolic succession.

 

[trogiah]

Curious:

People,

Forgive me for whining. You may view this is as a cry of frustration, a cry for the truth, the cry of a big fat whiny baby. Whatever.

For what its worth, I forgive you

Curious:

We talk and compare and contrast about the differences between Catholic and Protestant. We talk and compare and contrast about the differences among the trillion zillion Protestant denominations.
But in all this, I think it’s clear that Catholics and MOST Protestants do base their doctrines/beliefs from the Bible. Most Christians don’t pull what they believe out of thin air. The arguments come down to who is misinterpreting.

A statement made by Pope John XXIII and vigorously affirmed by our current pope:

“That which unites us as believere in Christ is far greater than that which seperates us”

I put much faith in the meaning of those words.

Curious:

Someone has to be right. I was pretty annoyed today and prayed, and asked God, “Why? Why did you not just spell everything out for us? Why did you not just tell us what you want? With so much misinterpration how can we held accountable for some of this stuff?” Of course I don’t *really *blame God for this…but I was venting. But God does not seem to be the kind of guy who says “well yeah whatever works.” Is He not a God of absolutes? Guys, there has to be ONE RIGHT ANSWER to most of our differences doesn’t there?

My understanding of our faith tells me that no individual, no priest, bishop or pope (I know, I just quoted 2 of them) - no Saint, prophet or Apostel, Not Paul, not even Moses had it completely right. Only Jesus.

It is possible that we have been misinformed or misguided by people who claim to represent Jesus. But the truth Jesus lived and taught will eventually replace all the misinformation and misguidance.

That our human leaders have flaws does not mean they can’t give us a great deal of good advice.

Our accountability is limited by the truth that we are given. But we should never assume we are better off not knowing more of the truth.

Curious:

I realize that I’m not the first person to be an agony about these things, and I surely won’t be the last. But misinterpreting things like whether or not music should be played in church services differs quite a bit from misinterpreting things like salvation and faith and such.

Protestants - which denom is right? Do we really have to just pick something we like and hope to God the doctrine is halfway sound and that God will have mercy on our errors?
Catholics - are YOU right?

I am a Catholic but I am quite certain that being raised in that tradition and continuing that tradition does not make me “right” I am right so long as I seek God’s Kingdom before I seek anything else and know that I find it only when my life reflects that of Jesus.

Curious, you ask good questions, No need to ask for forgiveness

-Jim

 

[Lorarose]

And Protestants seem as guilty of making the Bible an idol to worship as we/they accuse Catholics of doing with statues. I find myself doing the same. To me/us, the Bible is the end all be all of all authority. You say it is not. That’s another confusing thing…how to regard the Bible. A family album? That just seems to downplay it to me

The bible is a collection of writings that the Church collected over the first few centuries.
There were more writings in circulation than what we have now.
Because the Church was given the task to protect and clarify the truth handed on to the apostles - it became clear a decision would need to be made to identify which writings were inspired by the Holy Spirit and which were not.
There was much debate - some writings were left out that had been considered scripture. Some were included that others thought were suspect.
But the reason we accept their decision today is because we trust that the Holy Spirit guides the Church in the area of doctrine. We believe the Spirit guided the early Church when she struggled over this difficult task of defining scripture.

In the end the Church said - here is a list of writings that were divinely inspired.
The Church NEVER said the entire truth was contained in these writings.
There isn’t even a passage in scripture that claims that.​

As far as binding and loosing.
This was a jewish term and Jesus used it as such.
Your understanding of this term illustrates the problem you struggle with in this thread.
Somebody somewhere gave you their personal interpretation of this verse and passed it on as “truth”

Much of what the Catholic church teaches is rooted in judaism.
It makes perfect sense since the Church is the fulfillment of the promises given to the jews.

 

[Curious]

That wasn’t Lisa who said that; that was me. So individuals have the power to bind devils? That doesn’t make sense. We can resist them, sure, but… bind them? Since when does earthly man bind fallen angels?

Oh foo…sorry about that. I should have looked more closely.

The teaching goes that Jesus give the disciples power of the enemy? and taking up snakes and drink any deadly thing and nothing shall by any means hurt you? And all that? That’s where that comes from. That we have power of the devil. That everything Jesus told the apostles is something we can take for ourselves as individuals.

My understanding of our faith tells me that no individual, no priest, bishop or pope (I know, I just quoted 2 of them) - no Saint, prophet or Apostel, Not Paul, not even Moses had it completely right. Only Jesus

That’s a really good point. But is it really so impossible to have an assurance that we’re doing what God wants.? Or do we have to guess and stumble through the whole thing? I don’t know. Maybe I ask an impossible thing.

 

[mercygate]

Curious:

The teaching I"ve always heard, Lisa, is that this power of binding and loosing has nothing to do with sins, but devils.

Never heard that one before! But binding and loosing applies to all sorts of things – not just sins. Dogma, for example.

 

[Exporter]

Curious,

Refering to your very first post: You have attempted to ask a question as if you were a Protestant. And if you are a Protestant it is understandable that you have confusion. You say you are in graduate school - Medicine. So you have been trained in Chem. and Physics that there are absolute truths, so you expect absolute truths handed to you form God. Is that correct?

You wrote,“Protestants - which denom is right? Do we really have to just pick something we like and hope to God the doctrine is halfway sound and that God will have mercy on our errors?
Catholics - are YOU right?” Protestants are an offshoot of Catholocism. They are called Protestants because they “protested” Catholocism. Now if they are derived from Catholocism, but are not Catholocism - how can they BE RIGHT?

Look at Matthew 16:v18 & 18. Jesus started His Church and told Peter that he was to be the Representative of Christ on earth. Therefore any other Church is wrong. You obviously are looking for the “correct” Church in the Scriptures. You are not the first to do so.

 

[Curious]

You have attempted to ask a question as if you were a Protestant. And if you are a Protestant it is understandable that you have confusion. You say you are in graduate school - Medicine. So you have been trained in Chem. and Physics that there are absolute truths, so you expect absolute truths handed to you form God. Is that correct?

I am a Protestant Exporter. And yes…it would be GREAT if absolute truths were handed to me from God. But my question is not so much that IF God has granted us to know the correct truths, but WHICH interpretation of these truths are correct.

You obviously are looking for the “correct” Church in the Scriptures. You are not the first to do so.

Right again.

 

[Exporter]

Hi Curious,
"I am a Protestant Exporter. And yes…it would be GREAT if absolute truths were handed to me from God. But my question is not so much that IF God has granted us to know the correct truths, but WHICH interpretation of these truths are correct. "

You are asking for someone (even God) to come to you, single you out and spend time telling you 1. What are the truths you need to know, or 2. Explain, interpret, what has already been written.

When Jesus (Matt 16:18-19) started His Church, he said the words “loosed and bind”. He set up on earth what is known as His Church, yes Jesus Christ Himself did it. He said I will always be with you, meaning the Church. How does this work? Jesus knew that the Church would have to grow, to evolve. The men called the Apostles wrote the first Creed for the Church, The Apostles Creed. It came to us unchanged. Who were wnd are these men? Today they are called the “Magesterium” ( The Pope and all the Bishops). When a question arises about the Faith or if the is a Moral Question…they come together and pray tha Holy Spirit will guide them correctly. This ia a rare event. It is called a Council. The Council with the Holy Spirit gives the answers you have asked. :yup: