One Right Answer

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julieanne:
Sometimes I have entertained the notion that maybe, just maybe, God did not intend for us to figure out whose church or interpretation of the bible is correct. Isn’t it true that we are all part of His flock? Isn’t true that if one of us goes astray, He is always looking for us? Maybe that is exactly why there are so many different churches.

I have been taught that God has known me since birth and he is all knowing. Just for a moment I entertain the idea that God planted the seed of other churches. Not to make it a contest of who is interpretting the Word right, but help keep his flock searching for Him and worshipping Him.

God knows that a fire and brimstone preacher does not make me feel comfortable nor does it encourage me to seek Him and His teachings. On the other hand He knows that this is exactly what my in-laws need. Could it be that He knows that people have different personalities? Yes.

I know that I will know his true teaching in Heaven one day. Until then, I keep searching for Him. Until then, I worship Him! Until then, I try to follow the doctrine of the church that God has lead me to.

Could it be that God knew that mere humans would question His every teaching?
Absolutely!

Could it be that God is reaching out to us to find faith in Him?
I am sure of it!

Could it be that He has opened many doors for us to find the path to His grace?
Yes!

Could it be that other churches are God’s way of feeding his flock?

God Bless!
Sorry, but I disagree. God is not the author of confusion and that’s just what all these other denoms are - confusing. Christians go from one church to the next looking for the right fit (music, sermon, people, programs etc.) The focus is me, me, me - what can I get out of it - rather than on God. (yes, there are exceptions but I’m talking in general here) I don’t think God created many doors… I think Satan used Martin Luther to break off from the church and he is still manipulating people today. Every week a new Christian Denom is formed - what a waste of time, talent & treasure. Think of all the energy and power we would have as Christians if we pulled together rather than always pulling apart. Having said that, I believe that although the true Church is the Catholic Church, I believe God allows other churches to exist and those well meaning Christians who love Jesus have a shot at heaven as well. That’s just my opinion.
 
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Katholikos:
So the Catholic Church did not come out of the Bible; rather, the Bible came out of the Catholic Church. The Church was nearly 400 years old when the Holy Spirit guided her to select the contents and canonize and name the NT, to canonize the Greek Septuagint she inherited from Jesus and the Apostles and name it the OT, and form and name the Bible. Jay
But isnt some of the NT guidance for the existing church’s that were is error? Corinthians/epeshians etc…,

BIC

LAUS DEO
 
carol marie:
Sorry, but I disagree. God is not the author of confusion and that’s just what all these other denoms are - confusing. Christians go from one church to the next looking for the right fit (music, sermon, people, programs etc.) The focus is me, me, me - what can I get out of it - rather than on God. (yes, there are exceptions but I’m talking in general here) I don’t think God created many doors… I think Satan used Martin Luther to break off from the church and he is still manipulating people today. Every week a new Christian Denom is formed - what a waste of time, talent & treasure. Think of all the energy and power we would have as Christians if we pulled together rather than always pulling apart. Having said that, I believe that although the true Church is the Catholic Church, I believe God allows other churches to exist and those well meaning Christians who love Jesus have a shot at heaven as well. That’s just my opinion.
I understand why your disagree. But think about this. You stated that "the focus is me me me, what can i get out of it… " What they can get out of it is God! The whole thing I was trying to say was that just as some children learn better by different means so can Christians!

I do not think that God is the author of confusion, but rather He may be trying to thwart the powers of evil that be by allowing other means by which humans can find Him. Do we not find him in the miracles He performs everyday? Such as the marvel of the sunrise or the beautiful paintings in the sky at sunset?

I love going to church and worshipping Him, but I also find God teaches me through children and music. There are times when I hear my daughter talk about God and His love for us that it leaves me weeping. If I ask her who loves her the most… Her reply is God, Jeasus, The Holy Spirit, Mary, Joseph, all of the saints, and so on. If I ask my neice, who is baptized Christian, but not Catholic, she’ll tell you the same thing. It is not hard for me to think that God gave my sister in law and niece a aveneue to find Him. That He gave them the church they go to as place to worship Him. I fell closer to God when I can sing for Him. When the walls of the church resinate with harmonizing beautiful voices. So is it wrong to explore an avenue that brings you closer to God? Is it wrong for me to look for a Catholic church that has a wonderful choir as apposed to one without or no song service at all?

I too wish that as Christians we could all pull together instead of breaking apart. I do not think that the breaking apart is the work of God, but rather the work of our God given free will. God knows our hearts and I am positive He knows that our free will gets us in trouble from time to time, more often than not. I would tend to think that these churches put before us are avenues laid out by God to find him. To be near Him, to worship Him!
 
There is a difference between authorship and establishment concerning the Bible.

BIC

LAUS DEO
 
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julieanne:
I understand why your disagree. But think about this. You stated that "the focus is me me me, what can i get out of it… " What they can get out of it is God! The whole thing I was trying to say was that just as some children learn better by different means so can Christians!

I do not think that God is the author of confusion, but rather He may be trying to thwart the powers of evil that be by allowing other means by which humans can find Him. Do we not find him in the miracles He performs everyday? Such as the marvel of the sunrise or the beautiful paintings in the sky at sunset?

I love going to church and worshipping Him, but I also find God teaches me through children and music. There are times when I hear my daughter talk about God and His love for us that it leaves me weeping. If I ask her who loves her the most… Her reply is God, Jeasus, The Holy Spirit, Mary, Joseph, all of the saints, and so on. If I ask my neice, who is baptized Christian, but not Catholic, she’ll tell you the same thing. It is not hard for me to think that God gave my sister in law and niece a aveneue to find Him. That He gave them the church they go to as place to worship Him. I fell closer to God when I can sing for Him. When the walls of the church resinate with harmonizing beautiful voices. So is it wrong to explore an avenue that brings you closer to God? Is it wrong for me to look for a Catholic church that has a wonderful choir as apposed to one without or no song service at all?

I too wish that as Christians we could all pull together instead of breaking apart. I do not think that the breaking apart is the work of God, but rather the work of our God given free will. God knows our hearts and I am positive He knows that our free will gets us in trouble from time to time, more often than not. I would tend to think that these churches put before us are avenues laid out by God to find him. To be near Him, to worship Him!
You certainly make some valid points and I’d like to think that we’re all on the same road, so to speak but where to we draw the line? Are Jehovah’s Witnesses on our path… they don’t believe that Jesus is God. Are Muslums and Buddists on our path? How about Wiccans? Many of those faiths contain good people and
they would argue that their road leads THEM to God so what’s the harm? Only my question is, does it? It is the true God? And if we believe, as Catholics that ours is the True Church, how should we respond to other “Christian” churches who actively preach against the Catholic Church? Is God pleased with them?

I don’t know the answers… maybe someone else does.
Blessings,
CM
 
but where to we draw the line? Are Jehovah’s Witnesses on our path… they don’t believe that Jesus is God. Are Muslums and Buddists on our path? How about Wiccans? Many of those faiths contain good people and
they would argue that their road leads THEM to God so what’s the harm? Only my question is, does it? It is the true God? And if we believe, as Catholics that ours is the True Church, how should we respond to other “Christian” churches who actively preach against the Catholic Church? Is God pleased with them?

I don’t know the answers… maybe someone else does.
Blessings,
CM

*This was said very well. Yes. There is only one Holy Trinity. It would be wrong to give a pat on the back of those who deny this. Catholics must not give in to “other gospels”.
 
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Beaver:
But it is not for them to have a vague familiarity with words of Scripture; they have discovered the alarming fact that thier Adversary knows them too. They have been warned about the incredible subtlety of evil, how the Deceiver pretends to be concerned with human good only to lead humankind to self-destruction, how he can cite the Scriptures to pass himself off as a angle of light. Long ago we had heard that the sword of the Spirit given them to ward off the Adversary was the word of God; today they are relieved they are amoung a community of warriors who can teach them how to wield it correctly if the Deciever seek to turn it against them.
Just two days ago, during the gospel readings, we heard the passage where Jesus was tempted by the devil. Among other devices the devil used, he quoted scripture to try and mislead Jesus. Jesus response was to quote other scripture. When the devil tried other devices, Jesus quoted scripture again. I think it is worth realizing that scripture can be used to mislead, but the ideal response is to get to know all of scripture well enough to not be misled by any part of it. I think there are scriptures that apply to this discussion. (continued)

-Jim
 
carol marie:
where to we draw the line? Are Jehovah’s Witnesses on our path… they don’t believe that Jesus is God. Are Muslums and Buddists on our path? How about Wiccans? Many of those faiths contain good people and
they would argue that their road leads THEM to God so what’s the harm? CM
Maybe it’s my Baptist upbringing–but I think it depends on the “light” God gives us. God knows (better than I do) what I am able to comprehend about Him. He gives me avenues by which I can know Him. If I can know Him in the most correct way possible to my ability, and I choose out of human weakness (fear, ease, comfort level, anger, family tradition, …) to deny His Truth–then I have denied the light which God gave me and I will be subject to His judgement.

God is love and mercy, BUT He is also the God of justice.
 
carol marie:
I’d like to think that we’re all on the same road, so to speak but where to we draw the line? Are Jehovah’s Witnesses on our path… they don’t believe that Jesus is God. Are Muslums and Buddists on our path? How about Wiccans? Many of those faiths contain good people and
they would argue that their road leads THEM to God so what’s the harm? Only my question is, does it? It is the true God? And if we believe, as Catholics that ours is the True Church, how should we respond to other “Christian” churches who actively preach against the Catholic Church? Is God pleased with them?

I don’t know the answers… maybe someone else does.
Blessings,
CM
From Chapter 5 of the gospel of Matthew.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
18
Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.
19
Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”

The law was a great blessing for the Jewish people (as I believe it is still today.) I believe the the tradition and teachings of the Catholic Church provide us with the same blessing. And I do regard those things as real blessings.

However, I note that those who break “the commandments and teach others to do so.” are not banished from the kingdom of heaven but merely lack an important position there.

Compare their fate with those of some of the religious leaders of Jesus’s time.

“I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

These were the ones who followed the letter of law but not the spirit of the law. Though in reality they actually missed the letter of the law as well.

In any case, though they “worshiped” in the right place, they fell short of even getting into God’s kingdom.

One more scripture to quote:

"The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses.

Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice."

These words of Jesus are followed by a scathing criticism of those who had taken their seat on the chair of Moses. So why were they still supposed to observe what they told the people to do?

I do not fully understand why but I am convinced that Jesus would have anyone who really sought God’s will to not break away from the chain of authority God has established. Martin Luther may have been accurate in his criticisms of the church but he was not following the example of Jesus when he helped form a different church.

So where does that leave the rest of us - some of whom have been brought up in the Catholic tradition and some who are not?

I believe one thing we are called to realize clearly is that the most important part of our faith comes from God’s law being written on our hearts, regardless of the name on the building we worship in. The problem of unity is very real but not all of us will likely have a major part in re-establishing that unity on the political level. We are all called to help establish that in our own lives by simply living the life of faith in Jesus as best we can.

That’s probably all that can fit on one post so thats it for now.

peace
-Jim
 
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julieanne:
Sometimes I have entertained the notion that maybe, just maybe, God did not intend for us to figure out whose church or interpretation of the bible is correct. Isn’t it true that we are all part of His flock? Isn’t true that if one of us goes astray, He is always looking for us? Maybe that is exactly why there are so many different churches.

I have been taught that God has known me since birth and he is all knowing. Just for a moment I entertain the idea that God planted the seed of other churches. Not to make it a contest of who is interpretting the Word right, but help keep his flock searching for Him and worshipping Him.

God knows that a fire and brimstone preacher does not make me feel comfortable nor does it encourage me to seek Him and His teachings. On the other hand He knows that this is exactly what my in-laws need. Could it be that He knows that people have different personalities? Yes.

I know that I will know his true teaching in Heaven one day. Until then, I keep searching for Him. Until then, I worship Him! Until then, I try to follow the doctrine of the church that God has lead me to.

Could it be that God knew that mere humans would question His every teaching?
Absolutely!

Could it be that God is reaching out to us to find faith in Him?
I am sure of it!

Could it be that He has opened many doors for us to find the path to His grace?
Yes!

Could it be that other churches are God’s way of feeding his flock?

God Bless!
King Henry the 8th forced every Catholic in England, at the point of a sword, to join the new Anglican church that he had formed just so he could legally commit adultery. I don’t think that was God creating another church to feed his flock.

When Martin Luther came along and created Lutheranism most of the people in the area, again, were forced to change churches by the local governing authorities, who were happy to be free from the authority of Rome. There was no choice in the matter.

When the cancer of Islam took over the middle east, north Africa and southeastern Europe, forcing millions of Christians to convert, I don’t think think it was God’s way of reaching the otherwise unreachable.

Nowadays, we have a smorgasboard of churches, almost any of which are better then the alternative of secular atheism/agnosticism (a hidden form of satanism) where every real spiritual message is condemned and the worship of self is the ultimate goal. I’m certain it was Satan’s goal to undermine the political strength of the church so it could be attacked and fragmented. Once that occured, secular atheism could eventually take root because there was no spiritual guiding force with political power.

To answer your question, it is certainly possible that God will attempt to reach a person anyway he can. He may lead us to a given church knowing that we’re a step closer and that is all we’re capable of at the time. I believe, however, that it is God’s will for every one of us to be in a full and complete relationship with him. He wants us to know and experience him in a full and complete way. And, I believe, the only place on Earth that occurs is in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. I don’t believe God wanted his church to be fragmented. There was, for 1500 years, a continuity of beliefs and practices. That, I believe, is God’s intention. And, had it not been for evil men it would still be so today.
 
Hello all,

I will be rejoining the thread soon. I’ve had a semi-emergency and now exams are upon me. I’ve caught up and enjoyed every response. Hope to talk to ya’ll soon.
 
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SFAgal03:
We all believe the same basic things. I think that it is true that we all go about believing them and carrying out our beliefs differently, but, I think, for the most part, all of the important things are shared among Christianity as a whole. We’re all right that Jesus gave his life so that we could live and be saved and (hopefully) see Him one day in Heaven. We’re all right that Jesus is Lord; that He is the Son of God; the Messiah; and that no one gets to Heaven without knowing Him. Or am I wrong?

God Bless,
SFAgal
I’m sorry if someone else responded to this, but I just saw this and… must!

This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church in the part on “No Salvation Outside the Church”

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. 337
 
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SFAgal03:
We all believe the same basic things. I think that it is true that we all go about believing them and carrying out our beliefs differently, but, I think, for the most part, all of the important things are shared among Christianity as a whole. We’re all right that Jesus gave his life so that we could live and be saved and (hopefully) see Him one day in Heaven. We’re all right that Jesus is Lord; that He is the Son of God; the Messiah; and that no one gets to Heaven without knowing Him. Or am I wrong?

I’m sorry if someone else responded to this, but I just saw this and… must!

This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church in the part on “No Salvation Outside the Church”

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. 337
 
carol marie:
I agree with Jim. Jesus IS the source of life. Our assurance comes from Him. I think he is most pleased when we worship Him in His Church, which IS the Catholic Church (and certainly that’s where we receive the graces through the sacraments to live a holy life) but I believe when we are judged it will be based on whether we put our trust in Him and helped make the world a better place by feeding the poor, clothing the naked, loving our neighbor, etc - not by which denomination we parked our cars at on Sunday.
catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9302iron.asp

I would Look at CCC 846-848.

It will be based on whether or not we put our trust in Him. Do you trust His Divine Judgement of which Church is His? Do you question whether or not He instituted only one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church? Look here: kofc.org/publications/cis/catechism/getsection.cfm?partnum=3&SecNum=2&ChapNum=1&articlenum=1&ParSecNum=0&subSecNum=1&headernum=1&ParNum=2089&ParType=a
 
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Katholikos:
The Catholic Church is not based on the Bible. It’s the other way around. The New Testament is based on the living, functioning, teaching Catholic Church who wrote it. **The NT is a mirror reflection of what the Church was teaching at the time it was written down. **The NT cannot be rightly understood except within the context of the living Faith of the historical Church. It was written in the heart of the Church and must be read in the heart of the Church. Then you will not only know what it says, but you will know what it means.

When Chopin played the piano sonatas he had written, he wasn’t interpreting the notes and musical notations – he was playing them the way he himself intended them to be played. Other musicians have to interpret Chopin’s music – but he was the author and he knew how he meant it to be played. He knew what he meant by what he wrote.

When Einstein read his theory of relativity, he wasn’t interpreting – he knew what he meant by what he wrote. Other scientists had to interpret Einstein; Einstein didn’t have to interpret himself.

:clapping: :amen: :tiphat:

Absolutely! In my early years of college, I came into some serious doubt about the truth of Catholicism (mostly because of a Baptist history teacher who misrepresented much of church history and the Bible). Then I began to think about something. I realized that there were other accounts of Jesus’ life than the four canonical gospels. I learned about the Apocalypse of Peter, the letters of Clement, and many other non-canonical Christian writings. Who, I wondered, decided that the canonical books were Sacred Scripture and the others weren’t and when did this happen?

The answer, of course, was the the bishops of the Catholic Church.

BINGO!!!

This single fact is, for me, the key to the whole thing. The Bible is the book of the church. The church is not the church of the Bible. When I finally made this connection, the doubt was over; the puzzle was solved. There was no more debate.

If you believe in Jesus Christ, you don’t have to look hard to find the truth. Pray about it and take a good look at unbiased history. You’ll be surprised by what you find.

My realization has thus been that if Christianity is valid, then Catholicism is the true church. And if Catholicism is not valid, then mainstream Christianity as a whole is not valid and we all need to start looking at gnosticism a little more seriously.

Cheers.
 
I know almost nothing about the catholic church as I was raised in the lds or mormon faith. But I have found my one right answer in the catholic church and am in the process of RCIA. In my old church they often said that if the catholic church was not the true church than none of the protestant churches could be. And if the catholic church was true than they had all distanced themselves from the divine authority and true vine of Christ and were lost. Once I realized that my church was not leading me to Christ there really was only one place to go.

I really admire the churchs ability to admit to the sins of the church causing the fracture and its prayers to heal the rift. I can only hope that such a miracle happens in my lifetime. How much more could the followers of Christ do if we were united?
 
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