One Right Answer

[Curious]

You are asking for someone (even God) to come to you, single you out and spend time telling you 1. What are the truths you need to know, or 2. Explain, interpret, what has already been written.

Well Exporter, I don’t know about all *that. *I don’t have to be singled out. I think every one of us should know.

Yes. The Magesterium thing. It has been in my thoughts for the last little while. In another post in another thread somewhere, I mentioned that I’m beginning to feel like some strange hybrid, neither Catholic nor Protestant, because my mind is changing very slowly about some things. This whole thing about the Church interpreting the scripture, relieving us of such a burden, is what I"ve been pondering lately, and part of what began this thread.

If all the Bibles in the world were destroyed at the same time. I mean every single page (work with me here, and let’s pretend).
Then what? Then the same Church that flourished and taught in the first so many years before the Bible was compiled would continue teaching and flourishing, having the advantage of not having set the Bible up as God Himself. Do you think it would be correct to say that if such a thing happened, the Catholic Church would be the least negatively affected by it? Not because the Church disregards the Bible, but because the Church has been guarding apostolic tradition from the beginning…

:banghead:

 

[Scullinius]

Curious:

The teaching goes that Jesus give the disciples power of the enemy? and taking up snakes and drink any deadly thing and nothing shall by any means hurt you? And all that? That’s where that comes from. That we have power of the devil. That everything Jesus told the apostles is something we can take for ourselves as individuals.

Are you asking, or telling?

 

[Beaver]

Curious:

People,
Protestants - which denom is right? Do we really have to just pick something we like and hope to God the doctrine is halfway sound and that God will have mercy on our errors?
Catholics - are YOU right?

It all started when Adam & Eve lessen in the theology of Satan. Today’s readings at Mass tell it all. Notice that both Satan and Christ quote the scriptures. Satan knows how to use scripture for his own purpose. My father called it educated stupidly, and Adam & Eve were the first to fall. I wrote an article on it called sword play. The swords protrude from their mouths because it is the word of God.

Here is the text…

Sword Play
By Donald F. Hudzinski

A reflection on the temptations of the Lord (Mt 4: 1-11).

As Jesus approaches the devil he draw his sword, the sword of pride. It is composed of power, prestige, and property. But our Hero has a sword also the sword of humility. It is composed of faith, hope, and charity.

The battle begins and we observe how these swords collide. Pride’s power against humility’s faith; pride’s prestige against humility’s hope; and pride’s property against humility’s charity.

Our hero’s victory teaches us how to wield the sword of humility to defeat our enemy the devil. With such a sweet victory one must savor the source.

May I forever store the sword of humility in the scabbard of my heart, so it will be available for the battle of souls? May this piercing of my heart forever change me?

Thanks and praise to God forever.

 

[st_felicity]

Curious:

This whole thing about the Church interpreting the scripture, relieving us of such a burden, is what I"ve been pondering lately, and part of what began this thread.

It wasn’t supposed to be OUR problem in the first place–2Peter1:20 “know this first of all, that there is no prophesy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation…” And in 3:16 Speaking of Paul’s letters and “other scripture”…“In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction…”

 

[Curious]

Are you asking, or telling?

I was telling…trying to explain what I’ve always been taught about power of the devil and binding and losing and such.

 

[Exporter]

Curious,

Not only are you interesting , you think. “Yes. The Magesterium thing. It has been in my thoughts for the last little while. In another post in another thread somewhere, I mentioned that I’m beginning to feel like some strange hybrid, neither Catholic nor Protestant.”

“If all the Bibles in the world were destroyed at the same time. I mean every single page (work with me here, and let’s pretend).
Then what? Then the same Church that flourished and taught in the first so many years before the Bible was compiled would continue teaching and flourishing, having the advantage of not having set the Bible up as God Himself. Do you think it would be correct to say that if such a thing happened, the Catholic Church would be the least negatively affected by it? Not because the Church disregards the Bible, but because the Church has been guarding apostolic tradition from the beginning”.

---

Curious, What a thought! Would the Catholic church be less negatively affected by it? Yes. Well a few words need to be said. It seems that you are thinking that I will say the Early Church was the PRECUSOR of the Roman Catholic Church - if you do then you would be correct.
From where did the Roman Catholic Church arise? It arose from it’s Founder - Jesus Christ in Matt 16:18-19. The Apostles with Peter as their leader were the very first Magesterium. They made the earthly decisions. Some of the New Testament was an interpretation of books already written. By the year 120 AD all of the Bible had been written. By the year 180 it had been translated into Latin. All of the Creed had been incorporated into the Catholic Church and all the major tenents(Dogma) were well known. There have been very few Councils that were called to DEFINE a previous Dogma. I don’t know how many, but my guess is less than six. Six in 2000 years. Not too bad, huh?
The Protestants came along about 1550 years AFTER the Catholic Church was created. By the fact that this new sect was a NEW sect it was defacto not the Original - The Catholic Church.The one Jesus started and gave His protection.
What I have written may sound very pro-Catholic, in my mind it is only factual. And to finally answer your question, Yes the Catholic Church would be least affected if all the Bibles were burned. Why? The early Church and the Catholic Church are one and the same and based on the Bible and the Traditions of the Early Fathers. Not one Tradition contridicts the Bible. There is no problem if all the Bibles were to be burned for the Catholic Church. To completely answer that question it would take a year of Catholic Instruction or a book of over 400 pages.

 

[Curious]

Curious, What a thought! Would the Catholic church be less negatively affected by it? Yes. Well a few words need to be said. It seems that you are thinking that I will say the Early Church was the PRECUSOR of the Roman Catholic Church - if you do then you would be correct.

Yes…I was thinking along the those lines. heh…I hope I didn’t say anything horrible. When I first read “Curious, what a thought!” I thought it might have been offensive or something.

And thanks for the reply. I was thinking something like that for the answer anyways.

 

[catholic2]

Dear cat …er…Curious I mean. (hey a little levity never killed anyone).

I am encouraged by the many who are trying to support you and bring you home. Approaches have been made from the head or the logical part to the heart, much of which must be spiritually discerned. I also praise God that Catholics have come into prayer for you as well. I also join with them in prayer for you.

May I suggest a website that lists many converts and their stories. I am currently reading a book by Scott Hahn (the Lamb’s Supper). He is one of those listed in the website. He was a Presbeterian minister who gave up a large ministry and turned down a deanship to become a Catholic. It’s a compelling story.

www.chnetwork.org/converts.htm

Shalom(peace)

 

[Curious]

What it’s beginnig to boil down to is that things from the scripture that used to make all kinds of sense from a Protestant-ly interpretation aren’t making so much sense anymore. I find myself scratching my head and going “Huh? Why do they say this scripture means this? Where did they get that from?”

I suppose I was frustrated with the fact that 5 different people can read a verse, and possibly come up with 5 different explanations/interpretations. I’ve heard this praised as the Holy Spirit giving each one what they need at that time.

 

[Exporter]

Curious:

What it’s beginnig to boil down to is that things from the scripture that used to make all kinds of sense from a Protestant-ly interpretation aren’t making so much sense anymore. I find myself scratching my head and going “Huh? Why do they say this scripture means this? Where did they get that from?”

I suppose I was frustrated with the fact that 5 different people can read a verse, and possibly come up with 5 different explanations/interpretations. I’ve heard this praised as the Holy Spirit giving each one what they need at that time.

---

Yes that is a common “excuse”. By that I mean oh, they recieved from the Holy Spirit "what they needed at that time’. That doesn’t really make sence to me. If this was true than that verse would have a great many different meanings. This gives an excuse for the fact that different people give a different interpretation.

We are told to test the spirits, why not test the interpretations. Give 3 men paper and pen and each has a Bible. Give them each the same verse for interpretation. Send them to 3 different rooms to do said interpretation. Afterwards collect the three interpretations. Read to see if they all say the same thing. Use this verse to start the test. Matthew 16:18. Try that.

 

[Beaver]

Curious:

What it’s beginnig to boil down to is that things from the scripture that used to make all kinds of sense from a Protestant-ly interpretation aren’t making so much sense anymore. I find myself scratching my head and going “Huh? Why do they say this scripture means this? Where did they get that from?”

I suppose I was frustrated with the fact that 5 different people can read a verse, and possibly come up with 5 different explanations/interpretations. I’ve heard this praised as the Holy Spirit giving each one what they need at that time.

But it is not for them to have a vague familiarity with words of Scripture; they have discovered the alarming fact that thier Adversary knows them too. They have been warned about the incredible subtlety of evil, how the Deceiver pretends to be concerned with human good only to lead humankind to self-destruction, how he can cite the Scriptures to pass himself off as a angle of light. Long ago we had heard that the sword of the Spirit given them to ward off the Adversary was the word of God; today they are relieved they are amoung a community of warriors who can teach them how to wield it correctly if the Deciever seek to turn it against them.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

1,500 years ago you would not have to ask this question. 500 years ago you still would not have to ask this question. Someone said, “If it’s true, it’s not new. If it’s new, it’s not true.”

Shalom(peace)

And 1970 years ago, that would have put paid to anything said by a certain person from Galilee who went round healing on the Sabbath, being friendly with lepers, Samaritans, and Gentiles, and correcting the Law of Moses on matters such as marriage. ​

 

[MariaG]

posted by Curious

What it’s beginnig to boil down to is that things from the scripture that used to make all kinds of sense from a Protestant-ly interpretation aren’t making so much sense anymore. I find myself scratching my head and going “Huh? Why do they say this scripture means this? Where did they get that from?”

I suppose I was frustrated with the fact that 5 different people can read a verse, and possibly come up with 5 different explanations/interpretations. I’ve heard this praised as the Holy Spirit giving each one what they need at that time.

While I do still believe that a the Holy Spirit can lead and guide us personally through Scripture, I too came to a point where it no longer made sense. Like why does this pastor say tongues are satanic and no longer exist and this one say they are a blessing from God? Who is right?

How can my friend say the Holy Spirit is leading her and guiding her, into the Mormon Church and her pastor tried to save her from Satan’s tricks? How can my own friends (and yours?) say I was being misled when I went back to the Catholic Church but I know that this is where I am supposed to be?

I can’t remember where, but there was a Bible verse someone gave me trying to show me the error of my ways as I went back to the Catholic Church. It was the one that we need to be careful because there will come people who will pervert the teachings and deceive God’s people kind of verse.

It hit me, who came after the Catholic Church? Everyone else. So who is the one who perverted the teachings?

You said you haven’t got much into history. Take the time to visit our host, www.catholic.com There at your fingertips are quotes from the early Church, 110ad even. There you will see how the early Church interpreted things like the Real Presence. And you will see how precisely it is in line with the Catholic Church and her teachings.

God Bless you and Keep you safe,
Maria

 

[Coptic]

Why have I stayed with my church? Why have I not converted to another faith? I think a lot of it has to do with history. I know how/why my church was established. I know that it follows the teachings of the Early Church Fathers, and I know that next to nothing has been changed in it.

All of this is important to me. If we want to really know how to practice Christianity, then why not look to how the Early Church Fathers practiced. I mean these men were disciples of the Apostles. Furthermore, I think it is important to have a church that is not constantly changing the way it practices something or interprets something to accomadate the new trends of society.

Finally, my heart has never told me otherwise. I have never felt that I am not doing the right thing. Or felt an urge to leave Orthodoxy.

I’ll be blunt with you. I do not think Protestantism is correct in many of it’s teachings. From what I have been told a lot of their teachings are a result of Rome-aphobia, people rebeling from anything that is considered a part of the Roman Catholic Church. This is sad to me. Instead of rebeling against the corrupt people of the church, they rebeled against the church as a whole–and that is wrong.

I am not Catholic, but if I were to advise someone on which Christian Church to join I would direct them to an Orthodox or Catholic Church.

God Bless,
Elizabeth

 

[Lorarose]

A good link for looking into Church history…

newadvent.org/fathers/

 

[trogiah]

Curious:

That’s a really good point. But is it really so impossible to have an assurance that we’re doing what God wants.? Or do we have to guess and stumble through the whole thing? I don’t know. Maybe I ask an impossible thing.

So they said to him, “What can we do to accomplish the works of God?”
29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent.”
30

I was raised in about as traditionally Catholic a family as a person could be. We said the rosary at home. Went to church every Sunday and sometimes every day during Lent. As the 12th child in my family I was baptized by the archbishop.

We grew up hearing the teachings of Jesus but not until later in my life did I understand that truly, putting faith in Jesus is what matters, not putting faith in any one denomination. Not even the Catholic Church.

We can be assured, (as virually every Christian denomination states) that faith in Jesus will lead us to Life. This faith will be manifested in living lives that reflect his teaching and his example. Sharing with those in need, keeping the commandments against lying, stealing, adultery, murder. Avoiding the pursuit of material wealth as an end to itself.

In my experience I have seen some non Catholic ministers who inspire others to live such a life. And I have seen some Catholic priests who have not been as inspiring. I have no intention of leaving the Catholic Church but my greatest assurance doesn’t come from being part of it (as much as I do value that). My greatest assurance comes from knowing that Jesus is the source of life. The sermon on the mount is essentially the same in any denominations scripture.

I hope you find a place to practice your faith where you can find assurance.

peace
-Jim

 

[Beaver]

trogiah:

So they said to him, “What can we do to accomplish the works of God?”
29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent.”
30

I was raised in about as traditionally Catholic a family as a person could be. We said the rosary at home. Went to church every Sunday and sometimes every day during Lent. As the 12th child in my family I was baptized by the archbishop.

We grew up hearing the teachings of Jesus but not until later in my life did I understand that truly, putting faith in Jesus is what matters, not putting faith in any one denomination. Not even the Catholic Church.

We can be assured, (as virually every Christian denomination states) that faith in Jesus will lead us to Life. This faith will be manifested in living lives that reflect his teaching and his example. Sharing with those in need, keeping the commandments against lying, stealing, adultery, murder. Avoiding the pursuit of material wealth as an end to itself.

In my experience I have seen some non Catholic ministers who inspire others to live such a life. And I have seen some Catholic priests who have not been as inspiring. I have no intention of leaving the Catholic Church but my greatest assurance doesn’t come from being part of it (as much as I do value that). My greatest assurance comes from knowing that Jesus is the source of life. The sermon on the mount is essentially the same in any denominations scripture.

I hope you find a place to practice your faith where you can find assurance.

peace
-Jim

Sorry Jim but there is a difference and here it is…

But it is not for them to have a vague familiarity with words of Scripture; they have discovered the alarming fact that thier Adversary knows them too. They have been warned about the incredible subtlety of evil, how the Deceiver pretends to be concerned with human good only to lead humankind to self-destruction, how he can cite the Scriptures to pass himself off as a angle of light. Long ago we had heard that the sword of the Spirit given them to ward off the Adversary was the word of God; today they are relieved they are amoung a community of warriors who can teach them how to wield it correctly if the Deciever seek to turn it against them.

 

[carol_marie]

trogiah:

So they said to him, “What can we do to accomplish the works of God?”
29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent.”
30

I was raised in about as traditionally Catholic a family as a person could be. We said the rosary at home. Went to church every Sunday and sometimes every day during Lent. As the 12th child in my family I was baptized by the archbishop.

We grew up hearing the teachings of Jesus but not until later in my life did I understand that truly, putting faith in Jesus is what matters, not putting faith in any one denomination. Not even the Catholic Church.

We can be assured, (as virually every Christian denomination states) that faith in Jesus will lead us to Life. This faith will be manifested in living lives that reflect his teaching and his example. Sharing with those in need, keeping the commandments against lying, stealing, adultery, murder. Avoiding the pursuit of material wealth as an end to itself.

In my experience I have seen some non Catholic ministers who inspire others to live such a life. And I have seen some Catholic priests who have not been as inspiring. I have no intention of leaving the Catholic Church but my greatest assurance doesn’t come from being part of it (as much as I do value that). My greatest assurance comes from knowing that Jesus is the source of life. The sermon on the mount is essentially the same in any denominations scripture.

I hope you find a place to practice your faith where you can find assurance.

peace
-Jim

I agree with Jim. Jesus IS the source of life. Our assurance comes from Him. I think he is most pleased when we worship Him in His Church, which IS the Catholic Church (and certainly that’s where we receive the graces through the sacraments to live a holy life) but I believe when we are judged it will be based on whether we put our trust in Him and helped make the world a better place by feeding the poor, clothing the naked, loving our neighbor, etc - not by which denomination we parked our cars at on Sunday.

 

[julieanne]

Curious:

People,

Forgive me for whining. You may view this is as a cry of frustration, a cry for the truth, the cry of a big fat whiny baby. Whatever.

We talk and compare and contrast about the differences between Catholic and Protestant. We talk and compare and contrast about the differences among the trillion zillion Protestant denominations.
But in all this, I think it’s clear that Catholics and MOST Protestants do base their doctrines/beliefs from the Bible. Most Christians don’t pull what they believe out of thin air. The arguments come down to who is misinterpreting.

Someone has to be right. I was pretty annoyed today and prayed, and asked God, “Why? Why did you not just spell everything out for us? Why did you not just tell us what you want? With so much misinterpration how can we held accountable for some of this stuff?” Of course I don’t *really *blame God for this…but I was venting. But God does not seem to be the kind of guy who says “well yeah whatever works.” Is He not a God of absolutes? Guys, there has to be ONE RIGHT ANSWER to most of our differences doesn’t there?

So as a product of my reading all these Catholic things, my brain pleasantly replied, paraphrasing something I"d read a week or two ago, “God did not abandon you to fumble and make all kinds of mistakes. His Church is there to interpret correctly”

I realize that I’m not the first person to be an agony about these things, and I surely won’t be the last. But misinterpreting things like whether or not music should be played in church services differs quite a bit from misinterpreting things like salvation and faith and such.

Protestants - which denom is right? Do we really have to just pick something we like and hope to God the doctrine is halfway sound and that God will have mercy on our errors?
Catholics - are YOU right?

Sometimes I have entertained the notion that maybe, just maybe, God did not intend for us to figure out whose church or interpretation of the bible is correct. Isn’t it true that we are all part of His flock? Isn’t true that if one of us goes astray, He is always looking for us? Maybe that is exactly why there are so many different churches.

I have been taught that God has known me since birth and he is all knowing. Just for a moment I entertain the idea that God planted the seed of other churches. Not to make it a contest of who is interpretting the Word right, but help keep his flock searching for Him and worshipping Him.

God knows that a fire and brimstone preacher does not make me feel comfortable nor does it encourage me to seek Him and His teachings. On the other hand He knows that this is exactly what my in-laws need. Could it be that He knows that people have different personalities? Yes.

I know that I will know his true teaching in Heaven one day. Until then, I keep searching for Him. Until then, I worship Him! Until then, I try to follow the doctrine of the church that God has lead me to.

Could it be that God knew that mere humans would question His every teaching?
Absolutely!

Could it be that God is reaching out to us to find faith in Him?
I am sure of it!

Could it be that He has opened many doors for us to find the path to His grace?
Yes!

Could it be that other churches are God’s way of feeding his flock?

God Bless!

 

[st_felicity]

trogiah:

I hope you find a place to practice your faith where you can find assurance.

peace
-Jim

It is good to wish her peace on her journey, but to give a false hope is wrong. She cannot find the TRUTH–and find (quote-unquote) “assurance”. You are only assured of heaven once you are there (or as we Catholics like to add–in Purgatory). One may be “confident” that their hope of heaven will be realized through God’s infinite mercy, but to be “assured” is the sin of presumption.