One sin and it's hell forever?

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fenderstrokes

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I have been listening to all dozens of the Catholic answers radio shows and I have a question. A non-Catholic called in and proposed a scenario to Pat Madrid that really disturbed me.

Here is the scenario…

A faithful life long Catholic lives a virtuous life in Christ. He attends mass every Sunday. On his final day of life, he commits a mortal sin by going to a baseball game and skipping mass. Because he died in a state of Mortal sin, he is, as Madrid stated, “gauranteed an eternity in Hell.” As Madrid said, only those who are “friends” of God can go to heaven. If this man was friends with Jesus his whole life, how can one single act, simply because it fell on the wrong day, separate a man from his “friend” for all eternity? This scares me to death. I sin ALL the time (like everyday)…and I am working REALLY hard to be better. I really feel like Jesus and I are friends…even if I’m not the best friend he has. Will all my battles I am fighting with Christ to rid my soul of sin be blown in the wind like a fist full of dust, like the man in the example?

I really hope this is not the case.

Thanks.
Dan
 
Satan works especially hard to make the faithful fall. Always pray for the gift of final perseverence.
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fenderstrokes:
A faithful life long Catholic lives a virtuous life in Christ. He attends mass every Sunday. On his final day of life, he commits a mortal sin by going to a baseball game and skipping mass. Because he died in a state of Mortal sin, he is, as Madrid stated, “gauranteed an eternity in Hell.” As Madrid said, only those who are “friends” of God can go to heaven. If this man was friends with Jesus his whole life, how can one single act, simply because it fell on the wrong day, separate a man from his “friend” for all eternity? This scares me to death. I sin ALL the time (like everyday)…and I am working REALLY hard to be better. I really feel like Jesus and I are friends…even if I’m not the best friend he has. Will all my battles I am fighting with Christ to rid my soul of sin be blown in the wind like a fist full of dust, like the man in the example?
 
So Madrid is preaching Catholic theology then? How could God be so cruel to condemn a lifelong friend of his for one mistake…however poorly timed? By logical extention…any non-Catholics who do not attend Confession through the Catholic Church is doomed! Right?

Dan
 
Wrong - noncatholics may not be aware of the necessity of confession, or the reasons behind the requirement, in which case their ignorance may save them.

Remember that confession to a priest is not required for every sin, ONLY for mortal sins, which are those involving grave matter, full knowledge and full consent. If ‘murder’ were substituted as the sin instead of ‘missing mass’ most people would have no problem with someone going to hell for that, no matter how many years of good deeds they’d accumulated beforehand.

Just because a lot of people don’t think about how grave the obligation to go to mass is (after all, that’s why it’s in the ten commandments, under ‘keep the sabbath holy’) doesn’t mean it isn’t grave. It’s not ‘just one little sin’ if it’s mortal, it’s on the same level as murder or adultery.

The church didn’t make up this rule. Christ did when he told the story of the foolish wedding attendants who neglect to stock up on oil, and miss out when the bridegroom returns unexpectedly, even though they’d been waiting up all night for him before then. We must be conscious that every day could be our last and we should be as prepared as possible to meet judgement.

Remember that God does have to be just as well as merciful, and while little slips and venial sins shouldn’t keep us from heaven forever, the obligation to go to Mass is a serious one which God instituted and failing in it is also serious.

Remember also that a person who is conscious of mortal sin but unable to go to confession should make a sincere Act of Perfect Contrition immediately, with the firm intention of going to confession as soon as possible. This would protect them in the event that they die without confession.
 
Thank you for your response. A couple comments…

I never said missing Mass purposely was a “little sin.” However, in the context of an entire life, would God throw that person’s eternity away for it?

Also, maybe I am wrong, but I believe the story of the wedding attendents saving their oil and then missing the bridegrooms sudden arrival is about the Jewish people failing to see the arrival of Christ. It may also relate to a person looking hopefully in their time on Earth to eternal life with God, but in the example cited above, it would seem an extreme punishment.

LilyM, you stated that if we were to replace “missing Mass” with murder then we could see the justification of condemnation. However, I would ask you to replace the man in the story with yourself. Would a loving and just God condemn someone for all eternity for one final sin, however severe? It would seem at odds with what I WANT to believe about my Lord. I don’t mean to be argumentative, I am just trying to work through, what in my mind, is a riddle.

I’m new to all this…so please be patient with me.

Dan
 
In your profile you identify yourself as Catholic. How can you be “new to all this”?
 
You’ve done absolutely nothing wrong, and I’m sorry if I came across as implying that you had. For starters, we recently had a pretty interesting thread on this topic, which you can have a read of here

I’m sure as a newbie you do have a lot of questions - the thing is a lot of newbies have probably had similar ones. It’s a good idea to do a search of past threads to see if anything’s already been said on your topic. Just click on the ‘search’ function and type in whatever things you’re interested in - eg ‘mortal sin’ or ‘hell’ or ‘forgiveness’ for this topic.

To put it the way I see it - we Christians tend to focus a lot on ‘good works’ towards our fellow man. This is well and good - of course they’re important as an expression of our faith. They’re not, however, the be-all and end-all, or even the most important facet of our Christianity. Jesus said the greatest commandment was ‘love the Lord your God …’ and only then ‘love your neighbour as yourself’.

That first commandment - the idea that love of God comes first - shows the importance of a lot of the things that are required of us as Christians that we don’t place a lot of emphasis on because they don’t directly benefit our neighbour. Things like going to church when we’re supposed to, or obedience to church rules even when we don’t quite understand why the rules exist.

These things are important because they are pleasing to God and showing our love for him. In fact they are what Jesus was referring to when he gave the first of the two greatest commandments, to ‘love God’ before loving neighbour.

Why? because they are tokens of love directly from us to God with no detours along the way. They’re also the most difficult, because there’s less payback in terms of feeling good about doing them and no payback in terms of making others feel good by doing them.

That’s my opinion on why missing mass is listed among the mortal sins. As for why God seems so ‘unloving’ - well, remember God doesn’t simply declare certain actions to be sins for his own amusement. Sins are sins for a very good reason - their NATURAL consequence is to separate us from God and lessen or destroy our relationship with him.

Misuse or abuse of the talents, gifts and resources that God has given us (such as premarital sex), or emphasis on them over Him (such as materialism or pride) is a sin. And it is we ourselves who do the separating, by knowingly and deliberately choosing to do what we know is sinful.

Hope this and the other thread help to answer your concerns.
 
I believe that there are different levels in hell, as we are told there are in Heaven.

When I look at the 10 Commandments, to me, they seem to go in a descending order of importance. They are all deadly but the punishment for them will not be exactly the same, IMO.

If I am correct, missing Mass on Sunday would break two commandments that are more serious even than murder. One is not keeping the Lord’s Day holy (No 3), the other, of even more importance is the First "I am the Lord they God, thou shalt not put strange gods before Me.

Choosing to go to a baseball game rather than worshipping God is much, much worse than commiting murder. But that’s just my opinion.

I was just thinking today how far we have strayed from the worship of God Almighty and putting in first place in our lives. We seem to let modern day life, with all its comforts and conveniences distract us. It’s something I realise I have to wrestle with in the days to come.
 
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fenderstrokes:
However, in the context of an entire life, would God throw that person’s eternity away for it?
God doesn’t throw this person away for it. God created us with a free will and God will not force Himself upon us. The man’s final action was to reject God by not attending Mass. God didn’t reject him. He rejected God. God will not force him to be in heaven with Someone (God) that the man rejected.
 
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marvin:
In your profile you identify yourself as Catholic. How can you be “new to all this”?
Just because someone is Catholic doesn’t mean they have everything figured out. The original poster asked a good question… how about some charity please?
 
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fenderstrokes:
So Madrid is preaching Catholic theology then? How could God be so cruel to condemn a lifelong friend of his for one mistake…however poorly timed? By logical extention…any non-Catholics who do not attend Confession through the Catholic Church is doomed! Right?

Dan
There is a story in the Old Testament where the Ark of the Covenant is being moved from one location to another. God told them NOT to touch it. So they are carrying it along & it’s about to fall on the ground and one guy reaches down to catch it and BAM - he’s struck dead just like that. Seems unfair to us… but God is God and He makes the rules.

Would He send you to hell just because you missed one mass? Who am I to say? I would try not to miss mass just in case.
 
To interject my $.02 into the dicussion, I think we all need to keep in mind one (name removed by moderator)ortant point. Specifically, it is **unrepented **mortal sin which leads to eternal death. Here are the relevent paragraphs from the CCC:
1874 To choose deliberately - that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death.
Why? As pointed out by several posters already, it is because mortal sin involves a serious tuning away from God:
1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.
In the example given, going to a baseball game instead of church is most certainly preferring an inferior good. I suppose the ultimate question in the example is whether or not the person realized his or her error and repented.
 
I don’t agree that the man would go to hell at all! If he is a believer than he is safe from eternal condemnation. However , the person in question may not be in that place of sanctification so, although he is justified through Christ’s blood, he will maybe not experience the perfect will of God. Purgatory? Perhaps, ask me in Heaven and I shall surely know.
 
Thank you all for your answers. One of you asked how I could “be new to all this” if my profile said I was a Catholic (I guess implying dishonesty on my part?) My wife and I have decided to return to the Church after a long separation from it. In this return we are trying our best to do what is right…and I definately don’t know everything I need to know yet.

It would seem to me, that the man in question, would be a good candidate for purgatory? Or is purgatory not for people with unrepented mortal sins?

In my case, I envy the man in the example. He lived his whole life in virtue and stumbled once in the end. He would seem far more deserving of heaven than me. I on the other had am a lot more like the man who sins his whole life and is saved by the skin of his teeth. But I am working on it. You would think that each day would be easier, but it’s not. 😦 Looking forward to confession on Wednesday; it’s been a long time.
 
It can never make sense until a person realizes that a sin by which a person goes to hell is not God’s rejection of that person, but that person’s rejection of God.

To make it really simple, let me explain it this way. God is infinite. Men are not. Men are not compatible with God. For a man to live in the realm of God would be like for a man to live in the ocean - we just aren’t born with what we need to do that. Now man has devised a piece of equipment to let him survive under water - scuba gear. God has also devised a sort of “equipment” to allow man to survive in Heaven - sanctifying grace. When a person is baptized, he is given the sanctifying grace, which is a bit like “God’s scuba gear.” Much like the Protestant understanding of things, God gives us this “scuba gear” totally free based on faith. Through Jesus Christ, our sins are forgiven, so He does not take away the gear every time we sin. That’s a good thing, because as we go through life we commit sins all the time.

But the thing is, this divine scuba gear really is pretty bulky, and it takes up all the room there is on the soul. Just like a scuba diver can’t fit a football uniform on over his gear, we can’t fit anything else on over God’s sanctifying grace - His eternal scuba gear. But sometimes in life, some, or most, people see something they want to put on their souls. Maybe it is the overcoat of fornication, or the three piece suit of murder, or even the casual dress of missing Mass on Sunday. When we want to put these things on our soul, we have to take that scuba gear off, first.

That may sound a bit silly, and it sort of is, the way I explained it. But it makes the point. Mortal sins don’t send us to Hell so much because God is punishing us. They send us because in committing them we reject the sanctifying grace that lets us exist in Heaven. We can’t do them without rejecting that grace. People don’t understand mortal sin because they see it as God rejecting us for one act, whereas in reality, it is us rejecting God. As everyone knows, it only takes rejecting God once to reject Him.

This is where Catholic theology is far closer to mainline Protestantism without Protestants really realizing it. They say that God gives us justification completely free, regardless of if we sin or not, by the merits of Jesus Christ. The thing is, Catholics say that too, we just recognize that we can still reject God. You can reject Him by literally saying it, or by doing something that conveys the same meaning. Does a husband have to actually tell his wife he is mad at her, or would, say, punching her do the same thing? Obviously our actions can convey messages. The mortal sin isn’t just in the sin - it’s that the sinner is rejecting God and His offer of salvation. It’s the act of saying, “I want this more than I want God.”

That’s another good way to look at it. Part of the problem is the term salvation. It’s a correct term, but it tends to make us look at things the wrong way by our own faults, not the fault of the word. Even St. Paul used the word, after all. But remember that Jesus didn’t really talk about salvation. He talked about inheriting eternal life, or inheriting the kingdom of God, or attaining eternal life. St. Paul did, too. This is a much better way to talk about things. Salvation carries the notion of a person being rescued from something, in this case sin and hell. This is truly what Christ does, but its more than that. God created us as free creatures. He deeply wants us to come and live with Him, but He won’t force us. He offers us heaven, and we then have to make the choice. That’s what life is all about - making that choice. As we start our Christian life, we are on the ‘yes’ side.

This may be a little off color, but it’s the best thing I can come up with now. When two people are starting to engage in the marital act, the woman may at any time decide she doesn’t want to do it and she may ask to stop, even though she already made the major choice to start in the first place. Now some men won’t listen to this, and it becomes rape. God doesn’t do this. If we decide we don’t want to be with Him, even after we’ve made the choice to at first, He stops. He doesn’t force us. He respects us. If we decide, after accepting His invitation, that we’d rather go live somewhere else, He will accept that. That is mortal sin. It is turning down God’s invitation after we have accepted it. The thing is, as we walk away from His house, God is always begging us to come back. “Please,” He says, “come in - I will really make you feel at home!” But He never forces us. If we reaccept His invitation, this is confession. It is all about our choices, not God simply punishing us.
 
Lazer,

An awesome answer. It makes more sense for me now…to see that we are sending ourselves to heavan or hell? I think. I have to let this sink in for a while.

I can only imagine how sad Christ must be when a life long friend of his walks away from him at the last moment! Afterall, Judas only betrayed him once. It hurts my heart to think of all the times I’ve done that to him (I would make Judas look like a nice guy). As I said in a different thread, when I look back at my sins (and forward at the sins I will probably commit) I see myself spitting in the face of Christ on the cross. The thought of lusting after a woman or skipping Mass to sleep in are easy sins to commit unless I imagine what I am actually doing to Christ. In a way, aren’t I driving a nail into Christ when I turn away from him? What a horrible thought. I am so blessed to have a lifetime to make it up to him, if I can, as best I can. I might not be perfect, but I know I have a real desire to unite with Him.

Thanks for the thoughtful response and please pray for me.

Dan
 
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fenderstrokes:
Lazer,

An awesome answer. It makes more sense for me now…to see that we are sending ourselves to heavan or hell? I think. I have to let this sink in for a while.

I can only imagine how sad Christ must be when a life long friend of his walks away from him at the last moment! Afterall, Judas only betrayed him once. It hurts my heart to think of all the times I’ve done that to him (I would make Judas look like a nice guy). As I said in a different thread, when I look back at my sins (and forward at the sins I will probably commit) I see myself spitting in the face of Christ on the cross. The thought of lusting after a woman or skipping Mass to sleep in are easy sins to commit unless I imagine what I am actually doing to Christ. In a way, aren’t I driving a nail into Christ when I turn away from him? What a horrible thought. I am so blessed to have a lifetime to make it up to him, if I can, as best I can. I might not be perfect, but I know I have a real desire to unite with Him.

Thanks for the thoughtful response and please pray for me.

Dan
You’re welcome, and of course I will 🙂
 
Since God calls the day of our departure, a man who is so faithful to God would probably find himself going to confession for some reason before he died, or he would be able to make a final confession somehow. Jesus would somehow show His Mercy.

I work in geriatrics and one of the many things that my 90yrs + patients have taught me is to say the Rosary and pray to St. Joseph for a happy death.
 
Lazer - that is the best explanation I’ve ever heard explaining us rejecting God as opposed to God rejecting us. Thank you!
 
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