One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

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vz71 said:
I see.
And everyone understands and is made aware of this implication when evolution is taught to them?
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I don’t know about you, but essentially yes.

You and I have been bouncing back and forth, going in circles around and around and
around, and only now that you have the phrase “as a species” do you have at least a
basic understanding of the point I’ve been making again and again and again . . .
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
I don’t know about you, but essentially yes.

You and I have been bouncing back and forth, going in circles around and around and
around, and only now that you have the phrase “as a species” do you have at least a
basic understanding of the point I’ve been making again and again and again . . .
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However, public schools cannot. The exceptions that should be understood with such a theory cannot be provided without stepping squarely into spirituality.

It would seem your understanding of this theory cannot be taught without providing a fair dose of religion as well.

I commend you for finding a proper balance and for seeing where God should be in it all.

But the theory fails for this same reason. It does not provide this balance.
 
Gary_Sheldrake said:
I think the point was about the American education system being sub par. While I do not personally have an opinion on the matter, the fact that many foreign scientists work in the United States may well suggest that we had to bring them in from elsewhere, which means we’re not developing them well enough here. Are you sure that’s what you wanted to say in defense of the American education system?
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After World War II, known Nazi scientists, and some who weren’t, were brought to this country under a then secret program code named “Project Paperclip.” Tons of Germans documents were microfilmed. Tons of advanced German equipment was seized. Do you think American scientists simply said, “OK, tell us how this works” and sent them home or put them on trial? No.

Officially, that Project ran from 1945 to 1973. In 1948, Project National Interest brought “… other ardent Nazis to the United States to work for Universities and defense contractors:…” And there was Project 63 that brought in more criminals. Americans were having a tough time getting jobs in defense related and other industries because of these people.

Source: Secret Agenda by Linda Hunt

Additional information: The Paperclip Conspiracy by Tom Bower

Look up the current percentage of American teens who graduate high school. Compare that to Japan, for example.

Peace,
Ed
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
Well what is the interpretation of the scientific community which doesn’t have a biblical
bias to protect? So if the “fruit fly dog?” bit didn’t work, you turn to "personal interpreta-
ation, fascinating. The difference between apes and humans is in some ways vast yes,
but overall, in light of scientific observation and in terms of the genetic aspects, we are
much closer than you’re willing to admit.
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OK. You have a lot in common with apes. Do you like bananas? Hey, they like bananas too! Anyways topics like these have a tendency to go on and on and i frankly am not getting much done. Missed some Dr. Phil reruns on account of all this back and forth. I hope your happy! [joking]
 
Gricken said:
I’ll say it again: you do not need ancient precedent for something to be true. The ancients didn’t understand nuclear physics either.
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Yet they perfectly described the"big bang" thousands of years before scientists postulated it.
 
vz71 said:
However, public schools cannot. The exceptions that should be understood with such a theory cannot be provided without stepping squarely into spirituality.

It would seem your understanding of this theory cannot be taught without providing a fair dose of religion as well.

I commend you for finding a proper balance and for seeing where God should be in it all.

But the theory fails for this same reason. It does not provide this balance.
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Public schools cannot what?
Your second sentence is without premise, it is simply you FORCING evolution to say
something about God, religion, spirituality, and the soul when it has nothing to say a-
bout the matter.
Your third point is illogical as well, as evolution cannot be taught
with such that dose of religion as you demand anymore than ge-
ology, cosmology, etc.
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
Your third point is illogical as well, as evolution cannot be taught
with such that dose of religion as you demand anymore than ge-
ology, cosmology, etc.
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Indeed. It fails.

The theory is being used to tell us what we are, but fails to include our soul.
 
vz71 said:
Indeed. It fails.

The theory is being used to tell us what we are, but fails to include our soul.
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If I don’t fight in the war against Al Qaeda, do I fail as a soldier? Under what premise?

Same thing with evolution. You can’t say Evolution fails because it doesn’t talk about
the soul. That doesn’t make any sense. You’re not talking about Evolution, but some-
thing else entirely. You are talking about a fictional science that should but does talk
about human beings as Body/Soul. That isn’t Evolution. You’ve diverge the subject.
 
vz71 said:
Indeed. It fails.

The theory is being used to tell us what we are, but fails to include our soul.
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Evolution tells us what we are biologically. The soul is not biological.

From the point of view of chemistry, I am a mixture of several compounds, mostly organic, whose dollar value is something less than $50. Does chemistry fail because it “fails to include” my soul?

From the point of view of physics, I am an aggregation of elementary particles whose combined mass is somewhere around 100kg. Does physics fail because it “fails to include” my soul?

The soul is not physical. It is spiritual - having no mass, no energy. It simply is.

Trying to blame evolutionary science for “failing” to describe the soul is like blaming a hacksaw for “failing” at making a good club sandwich.
 
vz71 said:
And yet the quote that best illustrated my point said “WHAT are you”

not “WHERE are you from”.

People are looking to evolution to explain what we are, and it fails.
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That is quite true. Unless you want to accept the idea that you are walking and talking meat that responds to outside stimuli only, and that your whole view of reality is simply a series of chemical reactions in the brain.

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
That is quite true. Unless you want to accept the idea that you are walking and talking meat that responds to outside stimuli only, and that your whole view of reality is simply a series of chemical reactions in the brain.
Peace,
Ed
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No, not true, that is what you want evolution
to be, but it isn’t whatever you want it to be.
 
Monkey1976 said:
What did I state that was incorrect?

Were early relatives of whales not animals that looked like hooved foxes?

Has a modern animal such as a blue whale, chimpanzee, or rabbit been found alongside the forms that are measured to be tens of millions of years old?

Is every find somehow incorrectly dated, even though multiple different methods give the same age range?

Are science and religion actually opposites?

Is the understanding of evolution as a biological process which is mute on the points of the human soul and the uniqueness of our first parents incompatible with the Faith?

Is God indeed a trickster?
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haltonarp.com/bio

Superluminal motion (objects moving faster than the speed of light):

ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/ESSAYS/Cohen/cohen.html

Does science know enough to carve it all in stone?

How could they have missed the following for hundreds of years?

sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090609092055.htm

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
That is quite true. Unless you want to accept the idea that you are walking and talking meat that responds to outside stimuli only, and that your whole view of reality is simply a series of chemical reactions in the brain.
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Absolutely. Seems they cannot see the forest from the trees. If a human and an ape share 98+ genetic similarity then we have more in common then we would like to think. That is their premise. Following their logic it is reasonable to ask how much do we have in common with a fruit fly if if we have 50%? A dog if we have 75%? Everyone knows there is far more of a difference between humans and apes than 2% if one looks at the big picture as opposed to the narrow lens they are looking through. Biologists re writing history with zero historical precedent. Now who is out of their field?
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
If I don’t fight in the war against Al Qaeda, do I fail as a soldier? Under what premise?

Same thing with evolution. You can’t say Evolution fails because it doesn’t talk about
the soul. That doesn’t make any sense. You’re not talking about Evolution, but some-
thing else entirely. You are talking about a fictional science that should but does talk
about human beings as Body/Soul. That isn’t Evolution. You’ve diverge the subject.
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Evolution fails not only b/c cross-species evolution is completely unsupported by fossil evidence, but moreover b/c it posits that organisms would have emerged spontaneously, with or without a Creator designing them. This is patent nonsense.
I suggest that every skeptic of ID read recent articles on creationsafaris.com to understand the impossiblity of life arising without God. Students deserve to understand the reasoning of people who believe in ID. REAL scientists are unafraid of a competitive joust of ideas. 🙂 Rob
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
If I don’t fight in the war against Al Qaeda, do I fail as a soldier?
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Yup.
Under what premise?
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UCMJ.
� 899. Art. 99. Misbehavior before the enemy
Any member of the armed forces who before or in the presence of the enemy- (1) runs away; (2) shamefully abandons, surrenders, or delivers up any command, unit, place, or military property which it is his duty to defend; (3) through disobedience, neglect, or intentional misconduct endangers the safety of any such command, unit, place, or military property; (4) casts away his arms or ammunition; (5) is guilty of cowardly conduct; (6) quits his place of duty to plunder or pillage; (7) causes false alarms in any command, unit, or place under control of the armed forces; (8) willfully fails to do his utmost to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy any enemy troops, combatants, vessels, aircraft, or any other thing, which it is his duty so to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy; or (9) does not afford all practicable relief and assistance to any troops, combatants, vessels, or aircraft of the armed forces belonging to the United States or their allies when engaged in battle; shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.
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Judas_Thaddeus said:
If I don’t fight in the war against Al Qaeda, do I fail as a soldier? Under what premise?

Same thing with evolution. You can’t say Evolution fails because it doesn’t talk about
the soul. That doesn’t make any sense. You’re not talking about Evolution, but some-
thing else entirely. You are talking about a fictional science that should but does talk
about human beings as Body/Soul. That isn’t Evolution. You’ve diverge the subject.
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I point out evolution is being used to tell us what we are.
It cannot, it does not explain the soul.
It is your own words that indicate the theory being used to explain what we are…
Judas_Thaddeus said:
NONE of your ancestors were related grunting ape? HUMANS
are related grunting ape, chimpanzees sharing 98.8% genetic
commonalities. What are you then?
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The theory fails this.
 
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