Only 31 deaths of children under age 15 involving COVID-19. Common flu-related child deaths from 37 to 187 during regular flu season. Should Governors

[TULIPed]

Lastly, I bet you can’t name even one SPECIFIC thing that Trump should have done differently .

There’s nothing. Not a single thing.

Now - let’s say he decided to have a giant party in the Rose Garden where everybody hugged and kissed and shook hands and sat right next to each other, and then he followed it with a reception in the White House where everybody hugged and kissed and shook hands and stood right next to each other.

Now THAT would be something he might want to do differently because if he did that HE (and maybe a couple dozen other people - including his family, and maybe Chris Christie who might have to spend 5 days in ICU) might end up getting COVID. And then he’d get to go to Walter Reed where he’d be lucky to get every treatment on the planet thrown at him and he’d have to get all his doctors to obfuscate about stuff (like if he’d been on oxygen or not - stuff like that).

But that would never happen. So yeah. There’s nothing he should’ve done differently.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Perhaps you are correct, although the “second wave figures” are much more about cases than about deaths.

That is understandable, since a spike in cases leads a spike in deaths by 2-3 weeks. It is much more useful from a public health perspective to have an early indication of trouble than a delayed indication, if they want to react in time to do something about it. This is a central concept in control theory in engineering. Delayed feedback leads to loop instability.

Yeah, no. Look at the charts from France. Their “second wave” started at the beginning of August, which would make it about 12 weeks ago and the spike in deaths has not followed the “wave” in cases neither in intensity nor by a 2-3 week lag. Sweden has had a small spike in cases in the same interval but no spike in deaths at all.

But do keep applying the rules of a “model” that was made up based upon limited science back in the early months of the year. The reliance on modeling in science will continue to fall apart precisely because models, whether in medicine or climate, are unreliable.

 

[TULIPed]

Their “second wave” started at the beginning of August, which would make it about 12 weeks ago and the spike in deaths has not followed the “wave” in cases neither in intensity nor by a 2-3 week lag.

Why? 12345678910

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Their “second wave” started at the beginning of August, which would make it about 12 weeks ago and the spike in deaths has not followed the “wave” in cases neither in intensity nor by a 2-3 week lag.

Why? 12345678910

Why what?

 

[TULIPed]

Why has a spike in death not followed a wave of new cases?

I should add - not a trick question. “I don’t know” is acceptable. Especially for Sweden. That one is a head scratcher for sure.

But when a large alligator ate your (probably overweight) friend (probably with HT) yesterday, but seems to be very tame today, are you in a rush to put your trunks on for a dip?

 

[HarryStotle]

Why has a spike in death not followed a wave of new cases?

I should add - not a trick question. “I don’t know” is acceptable. Especially for Sweden. That one is a head scratcher for sure.

But when a large alligator ate your (probably overweight) friend (probably with HT) yesterday, but seems to be very tame today, are you in a rush to put your trunks on for a dip?

A large alligator is a cold-blooded reptile that only has minimal energy requirements because they are ectotherms. A large alligator would very likely have no interest in you after eating a very large friend.

It is a well-known fact that viruses quickly mutate and thereby lose lethality over time. Barring some inexplicable and highly improbable mutation to the contrary Covid will lose its lethality over its lifetime.

That is why new and specific flu vaccines are developed every year. The strains from one year basically die out and do not return.

Ergo, Covid-19 is very likely losing its strength and lethality over time. By the time a vaccine comes on line it probably won’t be necessary. That is why vaccines for corona (common cold) viruses haven’t been developed. Colds aren’t lethal enough to warrant development of a vaccine and it would be an endless race against a continually moving target.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Yeah, no. Look at the charts from France. Their “second wave” started at the beginning of August, which would make it about 12 weeks ago and the spike in deaths has not followed the “wave” in cases neither in intensity nor by a 2-3 week lag.

I have looked at the charts for France:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

As you can see there is an almost perfect lag of 2 weeks between a rise in cases and a rise in deaths. I suspect that some do not see this because they are comparing the deaths in April, which as before effective treatment protocols were developed.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Yeah, no. Look at the charts from France. Their “second wave” started at the beginning of August, which would make it about 12 weeks ago and the spike in deaths has not followed the “wave” in cases neither in intensity nor by a 2-3 week lag.

I have looked at the charts for France:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

As you can see there is an almost perfect lag of 2 weeks between a rise in cases and a rise in deaths. I suspect that some do not see this because they are comparing the deaths in April, which as before effective treatment protocols were developed.

Perhaps. But if there are effective treatments and protocols there is a very reduced need to shut down economies or impose lockdowns because the spike in serious cases and deaths is a small fraction of the spike in cases.

Still, I am not seeing the “almost perfect” lag of two weeks. Perhaps I am not standing in just the right place or the light is different over here. The jaggedness of the graphs is impeding my seeing what you claim - must be my astigmatism kicking in.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Perhaps. But if there are effective treatments and protocols there is a very reduced need to shut down economies or impose lockdowns because the spike in serious cases and deaths is a small fraction of the spike in cases.

Across the board lockdowns are not necessary, nor is it necessary to shut down economies. All that is necessary is an aggressive strategy of testing, contact tracing, and narrowly targeted isolation, together with modest adaptations in the way we go about our lives.

Still, I am not seeing the “almost perfect” lag of two weeks. Perhaps I am not standing in just the right place or the light is different over here.

That’s because I had to take a graph that was scaled for April and extract the July-Oct portion, which is therefore obscured by poor resolution. But if you compare deaths in August with deaths in October there is an approximately ten-fold increase in deaths that are lagging the increase in cases. This pattern has been observed everywhere detailed statistics are kept. It is common sense, that unless some major change occurs in treatment, or in the nature of the virus itself, the percentage of deaths is going to be the same. That is why public health officials are so interested in the number of new cases because it is a leading indicator.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Exactly! Cases can run the gamut of symptoms from a symptomatic to very extreme in isolated cases.The covid is running through my sisters’ extended family after a gathering a few weeks ago.Her sons MIL early 60’s asymptomatic and has felt fine. other members including my sister and brother in law,low to mild typical flu like symptoms. The kids? None of them have it

 

[TULIPed]

A large alligator is a cold-blooded reptile that only has minimal energy requirements because they are ectotherms. A large alligator would very likely have no interest in you after eating a very large friend.

I hope you’re right. I still wouldn’t go for a swim with him sitting there, no matter how content he looked.

Ergo, Covid-19 is very likely losing its strength and lethality over time. By the time a vaccine comes on line it probably won’t be necessary. That is why vaccines for corona (common cold) viruses haven’t been developed. Colds aren’t lethal enough to warrant development if a vaccine and it would be an endless race against a continually moving target.

I keep hoping to hear the scientific community say just this. It’s very frustrating to hear “We just don’t know…” over and over again. What’s the most frustrating is to hear “We just don’t know” coupled with “probably not” when the question of lowered mortality is posed.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

A large alligator is a cold-blooded reptile that only has minimal energy requirements because they are ectotherms. A large alligator would very likely have no interest in you after eating a very large friend.

I hope you’re right. I still wouldn’t go for a swim with him sitting there, no matter how content he looked.

Ergo, Covid-19 is very likely losing its strength and lethality over time. By the time a vaccine comes on line it probably won’t be necessary. That is why vaccines for corona (common cold) viruses haven’t been developed. Colds aren’t lethal enough to warrant development if a vaccine and it would be an endless race against a continually moving target.

I keep hoping to hear the scientific community say just this. It’s very frustrating to hear “We just don’t know…” over and over again. What’s the most frustrating is to hear “We just don’t know” coupled with “probably not” when the question of lowered mortality is posed.

There are political ends in play, which is why there is a need to keep people afraid so political ends are fulfilled while “the people” are held at bay. Nothing like making people feel helpless to expedite political power plays.

This video is worth a view, speaking of “making political points” from Covid.

It even addresses the thread topic at about 13:50

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Their “second wave” started at the beginning of August, which would make it about 12 weeks ago and the spike in deaths has not followed the “wave” in cases neither in intensity nor by a 2-3 week lag.

Why? 12345678910

And now flu cases are down 95% this year compared to last.

Flu cases 'drop' 95% compared to last year. Are patients being misdiagnosed as having COVID-19?

Apparently the alligator might not really be an alligator but the same flu bug that shows up every year.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

And now flu cases are down 95% this year compared to last.

I would not automatically assume that “Conservative Christian News” is the best source for a medical explanation as to why that is. I am no expert, but even I can think of several, and none of them involve accusing the medical establishment of misdiagnosing covid.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

And now flu cases are down 95% this year compared to last.

I would not automatically assume that “Conservative Christian News” is the best source for a medical explanation as to why that is. I am no expert, but even I can think of several, and none of them involve accusing the medical establishment of misdiagnosing covid.

Except the article wasn’t assuming anything, it raised possibilities. You appear to be ready to assume stuff about conservative Christians, though.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

HarryStotle:

And now flu cases are down 95% this year compared to last.

I would not automatically assume that “Conservative Christian News” is the best source for a medical explanation as to why that is. I am no expert, but even I can think of several, and none of them involve accusing the medical establishment of misdiagnosing covid.

Except the article wasn’t assuming anything, it raised possibilities.

Same thing. “Are patients being misdiagnosed” is an invitation to dismiss covid deaths.

You appear to be ready to assume stuff about conservative Christians, though.

I don’t have to assume. Are conservatives (Christian or otherwise) anti-science? We can only wonder. (See how it looks with the shoe on the other foot?)

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

LeafByNiggle:

HarryStotle:

And now flu cases are down 95% this year compared to last.

I would not automatically assume that “Conservative Christian News” is the best source for a medical explanation as to why that is. I am no expert, but even I can think of several, and none of them involve accusing the medical establishment of misdiagnosing covid.

Except the article wasn’t assuming anything, it raised possibilities.

Same thing. “Are patients being misdiagnosed” is an invitation to dismiss covid deaths.

You appear to be ready to assume stuff about conservative Christians, though.

I don’t have to assume. Are conservatives (Christian or otherwise) anti-science? We can only wonder. (See how it looks with the shoe on the other foot?)

It is good to wonder. It establishes the truth about stuff. But why “only wonder?” Why not move past that to asking and answering the tough questions?

I prefer to wait for answers after “wondering.” And if they are not forthcoming, I go looking myself when it is important.

Covid deaths is a significant topic which is why we all ought to seek the truth and not merely assume or be content to “only wonder.”

Kind of like Hunter Biden’s deals with Ukraine and China. Some are content not even to wonder but to wave the whole thing off and even elect a possibly corrupt individual to lead the country even if he was part of shady deals with the CCP. Perhaps the press can engage in just a little bit of wondering instead of merely shrugging it all off as Russian disinformation? Maybe they are engaging in Chinese disinformation? One can only wonder.

 

[1cthlctrth]

I always find it interesting the way leftists consistently ignore science. When life begins, gender theory, and now scaring our kids for no good reason.

 

[HarryStotle]

I always find it interesting the way leftists consistently ignore science. When life begins, gender theory, and now scaring our kids for no good reason.

I think the declaration is, “Listen to the scientists.” The unstated part of that is “…those of our choosing.”

When that fails at getting the agenda through then the resort is to telling the scientists what they ought to say and do.

Watch: CNBC's Shepard Smith Repeatedly Interrupts Fauci to Demand He Call for National Mask Mandate

 

[JoeFreedom]

So why would you conclude that Google and Twitter and FaceBook should be the experts to censor data that supports different conclusions and different evidence from multiple validated and educated sources such as experienced epidemiologists, virologists and other universities?

The source of the information is moot as long as the information is correct. If a raving lunatic made the statement “The sun sets in the West”, would you dismiss it?

If the science was completely settled on this, why is there so much different information out there and why do so many respected and esteemed doctors, nurses, journalists, hospitals, universities, etc., have so much data that does not support the prevailing theories that are pushed by the main-stream media outlets? Is not science suppose to continue to evolve? Are not scientists supposed to continue to review and be critical of information so that only the truth prevails? How is this possible when one side says all the data and the science is already settled? Especially for a virus that has only been with us maybe 10-12 months?

The science was settled hundreds of years ago for ages when people believed the earth was flat, but then some crazy whackjobs came along and proposed it was round. Crazy!