Only 31 deaths of children under age 15 involving COVID-19. Common flu-related child deaths from 37 to 187 during regular flu season. Should Governors

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1cthlctrth said:
But it’s ok to denigrate the work of hard-working public servant President Trump, whose actions were way ahead of all the Democrats (Democrats didn’t take it seriously, as proven in a few of my posts above) regarding the potential seriousness of Covid-19?
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How can we take this obvious falsehood seriously?
Jeanne_S said:
Having said that,you clearly laid out the fact that,Trump relying on these experts has done just this.
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Agreeing to what public health officials say only after weeks and weeks of ignoring their advice, and only after it became painfully clear that the rest of country had moved on and were accepting what the experts were saying . . . that does not count for following recommendations as they evolve over time.
 
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@LeafByNiggle:
Can you name even ONE thing that any Democrat did to help stop Covid-19 before, during, or shortly after the time President Trump issued the foreign travel ban from China in late January?
 
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JB out doing rally in mid March,NP Cuomo DeBlasio telling New Yorkers to go out and live it up.Downplaying the virus,in fact ignoring it while busy impeaching Trump.
 
1cthlctrth said:
@LeafByNiggle:
Can you name even ONE thing that any Democrat did to help stop Covid-19 before, during, or shortly after the time President Trump issued the foreign travel ban from China in late January?
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The real work is done by our public health officials. The Democrats encouraged people to follow their guidance. That would have worked much better if Trump had not gotten in the way and essentially told people that following the guidance of public health officials was not very important. When the discrepancy between Trump and Fauci, for instance, became clear, many Trump supporters, prompted by their leader, showed their support for their leader by calling for the firing of Fauci. I remember several such people posted calls for Fauci to be fired right here in this forum. This made the job of our public health officials much harder, because now they had to overcome the bias that Trump has instilled in much of the population against the experts. That bias persists to this day.

No Democrat did that!
Jeanne_S said:
JB out doing rally in mid March,NP Cuomo DeBlasio telling New Yorkers to go out and live it up.Downplaying the virus…
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There was never a time when Cuomo or DeBlasio told people to gather at restaurants while Trump was telling them not to gather in restaurants. That never happened.
 
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Jeanne_S said:
Gaslighting has become an art form here…:roll_eyes:
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Hey, if what you say really happened, it should be super easy to point that out with some links.

But I suspect what you are referring to is the call not to avoid Chinese restaurants at a time when those were the only restaurants that were being avoided, right?
 
LeafByNiggle said:
There was never a time when Cuomo or DeBlasio told people to gather at restaurants
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Jeanne_S said:
Gaslighting has become an art form here
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As expected, Jeanne wins this one:


New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio was dismissing the impact of the coronavirus nearly two weeks before blasting President Donald Trump…
De Blasio went on to offer some suggestions for what New Yorkers should do instead of social distancing “I thought I would offer some suggestions. Here’s the first: thru Thurs 3/5 go see “The Traitor,” he said, referring to a 2019 crime drama about the life and times of a Mafia mob boss.


In response to a question about how the city would help curb the economic impact of coronavirus, New York City mayor Bill De Blasio said that they’re “telling people to not avoid restaurants, not avoid normal things that people do."
"If you’re not sick, you should be going about your life,” the mayor said.

Notice the MARCH dates on these articles.
 
1cthlctrth said:
In response to a question about how the city would help curb the economic impact of coronavirus, New York City mayor Bill De Blasio said that they’re “telling people to not avoid restaurants, not avoid normal things that people do."
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OK, so on March 3rd, de Blasio we telling people to get on with their lives and go to restaurants and movies, etc. Now, to make your point about how Trump was way ahead of the Democrats, all you have to do is find evidence that by March 3rd, Trump was telling people not to gather in restaurants and movies, etc. Good luck with that! (I don’t think Trump has ever told people not to gather in restaurants, even to this day.)
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
That would have worked much better if Trump had not gotten in the way
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Please give even just ONE example of when Trump “got in the way”. Is this merely a talking point from what some call the “Fake News”?

Please see my comment #s 370 and 383 (and #387) regarding the health officials and Democrats who were not taking Covid-19 as seriously as Trump. This is an example of why it’s often demoralizing for me to comment in this forum - the data I provide is simply ignored just a few comments later. I don’t expect everyone to read this entire thread (I know I rarely have the time to read complete long threads), but #s 370, 383 & 387 are recent.

The WHO was famously wrong:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1217043229427761152

World Health Organization (WHO)
@WHO
Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China.

In addition, Fauci said Trump has gone ahead with every recommendation.


Lastly, I bet you can’t name even one SPECIFIC thing that Trump should have done differently.
 
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1cthlctrth said:
Please give even just ONE example of when Trump “got in the way”. Is this merely a talking point from what some call the “Fake News”?
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Such examples have been given multiple times. Anyone reading these threads is very familiar with them. Why don’t you just go find one of them and “debunk” it?
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
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1cthlctrth:
Please give even just ONE example of when Trump “got in the way”. Is this merely a talking point from what some call the “Fake News”?
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Such examples have been given multiple times. Anyone reading these threads is very familiar with them. Why don’t you just go find one of them and “debunk” it?
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I’ve already debunked the only SPECIFIC example that a commenter had the courage to say that Trump should have told everyone to wear a mask in January.
My comment #s 387 indicates that:
In early March, Dr. Anthony Fauci told “60 Minutes” face masks were not necessary amid the coronavirus outbreak.
In addition, I’m not aware of any study that proves that forced mask-wearing helps to stop the spread. Photos of maskless Pelosi, both Cuomos, Whitmer, etc. also appear to call into doubt whether they TRULY believe in masks.

and my comment #400 contradicts the claim that Trump didn’t listen to his pandemic team:

Dr. Anthony Fauci corrected the record, announcing during the coronavirus briefing that President Donald Trump had taken action when it was recommended.

Nobody can name even ONE Democrat who took covid-19 seriously in January or February. Needless to say, we’re extremely fortunate that Donald Trump is President throughout all this.

Additional proof that the kids are being used as political pawns:


LA County Director of Public Health, Barbara Ferrer said that schools won’t open up until “after the election.”
The call, which was a briefing to school administrators, was an update on the county’s progress toward reopening schools:
“So we uh don’t realistically anticipate moving that we would be moving to either Tier 2 or to reopening K-12 schools at least through… at least until after the election, after you know, early November. Like when we just look at the timing of everything it seems to us the more realistic approach to this would be to think that we are going to be where we are now, until we are done with the elections.”

Hosts John and Ken both picked up on it immediately on the timeframe:
John: “So can I interpret it as they are holding off until the election because sending the kids back into school would uh…”
Ken: “Would be a plus sign for Trump?”
John: “… would put everyone in a good mood, they would feel the whole nightmare is over and that uh, gives goodwill to Trump and more votes. Is that what they are doing? Are they manipulating the school date based on whatever?…”
Ken: “It is odd that she picked the elections. She could have said Halloween which is a few days before…”
John: “And what do they expect to change between now and November? What is this? Because originally it was only a hospital measure. It was only about running out of hospital beds and ventilators. That fear, never materialized we are long past any dangers that the hospitals get overloaded why are they clinging to this?”

Hey, at least one health director is honest about the real goal in this nightmare.
 
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As we can conclude from the data and studies provided above, kids are unlikely to die from covid, or to spread it. The costs of lockdowns exceed the benefits. The media and other leftists ought to be ashamed of themselves (but they’re probably proud of it) for mentally scarring these kids with fear and cancelling their activities. As Laura Ingraham called it, this appears to be child abuse, and it must stop.

I prefer the Democrats’ January, February, and early March lack of Covid-19 seriousness to their Orwellian overreactions in shutting everything down.

(But whatever any extremist wishes to accuse Trump of, he was ahead of the Democrats,. The only concern Democrats had regarding foreign travel bans was, amazingly, in stopping Trump from enacting travel bans, at the same time as the Democrats’ obsession with impeachment.)
Additional proof that Trump was ahead of the Democrats (and without destroying the country in the process with lockdowns):


Proof of the media’s active dishonesty is their praise for Andrew Cuomo (worst death rate per population) and their attacks on DeSantis (larger population, nowhere near the same number of deaths).


A Pennsylvania state representative was caught on a hot microphone joking about how she would keep her mask on during a press conference as a bit of “political theater.”

Rep. Wendy Ullman and Gov. Tom Wolf, both Democrats, held a press conference, and a livestream caught Ullman and Wolf discussing their plans for wearing masks.

“So Wendy, I’m going to take, I’m going to take my mask off when I speak,” Wolf said.
“I will as well. I’m waiting so that we can do a little political theater,” Ullman said as the two laughed. “So that it’s on camera.”

We continue to accumulate more data. Here’s more:


It would make sense for colleges to treat their students like prisoners if those on campus were a demonstrable public health risk. Yet the data so far show the exact opposite.
Brown University epidemiologist Andrew Bostom tweeted that he had tallied up just over 26,000 students testing positive for COVID-19 (which itself may double-count the same person for multiple tests), based on reported figures from 29 universities. Yet he **could not find a single reported hospitalization among those supposedly infected students.

In conclusion, we can protect the vulnerable, wash our hands, and social distance. But locking down everybody else has proven disastrous. Death counts incidentally WITH Covid-19 (including vehicle accidents, etc.) grossly overstates actual deaths CAUSED BY COVID-19. Too many lives and relationships have been severely damaged and destroyed. Too many mental problems, short and long term. Unforced errors by those Governors and bureaucrats who shut things down.
 
The Governors and other leaders who closed the schools are looking more like flat-earthers, as more data and studies reveal.


According to a report by Outkick, very few American college students have faced serious health ramifications after testing positive for coronavirus. According to the compiled data, there have been 70,000 positive cases on 50 major campuses around the country, but only approximately three students have required hospitalization.
 
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Additional proof that actual deaths CAUSED BY COVID-19 are grossly overstated:

According to ABC 15 News in Arizona, (https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/new-report-suggests-there-are-thousands-of-unaccounted-deaths-in-arizona ) Dr. Rebecca Sunenshine, with the Maricopa County Public Health Department, stated:
  • “I want to reassure everyone that every single person who has COVID-19 listed anywhere on their death certificate is in fact counted. Even if it’s not listed on their death certificate, anyone who has a COVID-19 positive test within a certain period of when they died, is also counted as a COVID-19 positive death.” Maricopa County officials told ABC 15 that it counts anyone who tests positive for COVID in 60 days and dies is counted as a COVID death.
  • ABC15 asked Maricopa County health officials about a hypothetical question — if a person dies in a car crash, and tested positive for COVID-19 within the 60 days, would they be counted as a COVID-19 death? The response: "Yes, the death would be added to the total because for Public Health, it is important to understand who died WITH the disease even if the disease was not the CAUSE of death
    • According to Dr. Sunenshine, this is standard practice in public health, to count it as a death from COVID. – Obviously this will indicate numbers that are higher and difficult to discern how deadly the disease actual is.
 
1cthlctrth said:
https://www.conservativereview.com/...onsistent-wed-close-schools-every-flu-season/
If you give me control of the media and medical academia for a month, I will have every parent in America easily convinced that children must be locked down forever. If the threat level of COVID-19 to children is the new threshold for shutdown, we are done as a civilization, even if this particular virus becomes extinct tomorrow.

Children barely contribute to community spread of COVID-19. On the other hand, with the flu, children contribute substantially to the spread and pick it up most often from other kids in school.

If we are going to limit or modify or schooling and mandate that kids wear suffocating masks all day, shouldn’t this be done every year from November to April – by a factor of 10? And given that the flu does linger for all months of the year at least at the threat level of COVID-19 to children during the off months, if schools are closed for COVID-19, shouldn’t they always be closed because of the flu?

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku/data
Deaths involving COVID-19 from February 1 to July 11:
under age 1: 9
ages 1-4: 8
ages 5-14: 14
Only 31 deaths of children under age 15 that were in any way related to COVID-19.

Flu & Young Children | CDC
Since 2004-2005, flu-related deaths in children reported to CDC during regular flu seasons have ranged from 37 to 187 deaths or more.

University of Vermont Experts: Children Rarely Transmit Coronavirus
Several countries have conducted studies that have not found child-to-adult transmission: Australia, Canada, China, France, Iceland, Ireland, Netherlands, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom.
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I’ve been avoiding this thread because most of it is political point scoring. But the numbers don’t lie. The States have now passed 220,00 deaths. Somewhere near the start of this depressing thread (or it may have been one very similar) I suggested that if you guys didn’t get your act together then the estimated 50,000 deaths (or even some were suggesting an horrific 100,000) would be eclipsed by a figure much larger. And I suggested a quarter of a million. The response was pretty much ‘Nah, we got this covered. It’ll all blow over’.

Now I’m watching in horror as European countries that thought they ‘had it covered’ are experiencing second wave figures much worse than the first.

With winter approaching in the northeren hemisphere, I’m now revising my figures for the US. If you don’t get a vaccine out by Feb or March then the number of deaths will top a half a million.

On Trump’s watch you will approach figures that people will start comparing to deaths in the Civil War.
 
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Freddy said:
Now I’m watching in horror as European countries that thought they ‘had it covered’ are experiencing second wave figures much worse than the first.

With winter approaching in the northeren hemisphere, I’m now revising my figures for the US. If you don’t get a vaccine out by Feb or March then the number of deaths will top a half a million.

On Trump’s watch you will approach figures that people will start comparing to deaths in the Civil War.
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Perhaps you are correct, although the “second wave figures” are much more about cases than about deaths.

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As for “getting acts together” to “do something,” it certainly isn’t clear that either masks or lockdowns have made any difference at all or even worsened things.

As for blaming Trump but in the same breath excoriate others for “political point scoring”. That is rich.

Then there is Sweden which did no lockdowns and no mask mandates and their "second wave of deaths looks like this…

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Got an explanation?
 
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HarryStotle said:
Perhaps you are correct, although the “second wave figures” are much more about cases than about deaths.
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That is understandable, since a spike in cases leads a spike in deaths by 2-3 weeks. It is much more useful from a public health perspective to have an early indication of trouble than a delayed indication, if they want to react in time to do something about it. This is a central concept in control theory in engineering. Delayed feedback leads to loop instability.
 
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