Only 31 deaths of children under age 15 involving COVID-19. Common flu-related child deaths from 37 to 187 during regular flu season. Should Governors

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And I am sure that they absolutely know it was the grandchild who gave it to her and not someone else … and even if that is the case with no doubt … all tha means to me is that your MIL’s neighbor took a calculated risk and if she was in a high risk category failed to take personal responsibility …

My son, DIL and 3 grand kids plus two other families came in August for a visit to my place … their annual camping trip spoiled by wild fires. I have acreage and they “camped” here instead. When my grands got out of the car - they put on masks immediately … I told my grandson he did not need to put on a mask and my son said they did not want to make me feel unsafe, uncomfortable nor put me at risk … I looked at my grandson who I have not seen since Christmas and told him I wanted a hug - and for him to remember only this if I contracted COVID-19 and even died … “I love you with all my heart and I wanted and needed a hug - you got that? I said … all you remember is that I love you dearly and I wanted a hug”

I wear a mask when I go to the store, I wash my hands, I live in the country and a typical week for me under our work from home restrictions means I am practically in quarantine most of the time. I miss my employees, I miss my family … I would not put anyone at risk. I am able to make my own decisions and determine my own level of risk while doing what I can to protect those who I might interact with.



I understand that some people will succumb to COVID-19 . .primarily those that are elderly and with underlying health conditions. I hazard a guess that these elderly people have made thousands [millions] of decisions about their well being, life choices that impacted their health - and are fully capable of doing so unless they are institutionalized and not of sound mind - then their caregivers would be making those decisions for them … The entire world does not need to place their lives on hold and their future in jeopardy
 
YADA said:
And I am sure that they absolutely know it was the grandchild who gave it to her and not someone else … and even if that is the case with no doubt … all tha means to me is that your MIL’s neighbor took a calculated risk and if she was in a high risk category failed to take personal responsibility …
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Yes, they know it was the kid. And when we had a fraction of the problem in Australia as you ever have had in the US then we shut everything down. And no grandkids at all. No mixing. Isolate. Meet up online and via Zoom. Groceries delivered. Not easy, I’ll give you that. But everyone knuckled down.

I haven’t seen that in the US. Now I’ve got the grandkids over tomorrow. No problem. We’re meeting friends for a meal on the weekend. No problem. Going to watch the cricket next week in a ground full to capacity. No problem.

We’ve beat it. We did what was required. I’m sorry you can’t hug your kids safely but…what can I say? You have people who believe that personal freedom overrides public responsibility.
 
You presume a great deal about me and my life under COVID… Initially I locked down March 15th it started …WOrk from home started then with no return to the office to date.

rom mid March through August - went out to the store [I live in the country and there is no delivery - its a 10 mile RT to the nearest little town and 50 miles RT to the county seat] once every 5-6 weeks … I rarely saw a soul and no one within 15 feet. I live alone - no other living sole and no nearby neighbors. Mass resumed for no more than 25 by reservation only at the end of May. I probably lived a more isolated life for months than you did.

I can hug my grandkids and did hug my grandkids … I saw those three in mid August and a couple of weeks later had three more for a week. Loved every minute of it.

I also spent 33 days in September & October working on a wild fire assignment - as life and trouble know naught about COVID and duty does not allow some to cower and hide. Fire camp means sleeping in tents and double shifts - porta-johns, potable showers, sack lunches and yes … masks. Somehow, I managed to stay COVID-19 free … because I am a responsible person - even under difficult and less than ideal conditions

The world cannot stop turning for everyone, nor can every person be protected form every harm. It is incumbent upon the individual t act responsibly - first for themselves and then for others.

Those who are at great risk need to take every precaution. They truly need to stay isolated. They need to wash and wear masks on the VERY FEW times they might need to venture out … Children need to go to school and people who are healthy and not in a high risk category should be allowed to work.

You seem to gloss over the harm that is being done by shut downs - harm that includes the loss of life … those lives are not less important than the lives of those who are lost to COVID-19 and yet you seem to have little care.

non COVID related health care that was not allowed and postponed has had and will continue to have serious consequences including death for some - do you care about those lives?

Suicides are up including in the very young [did you read the article about the 11 year old?] - do you care?

Drug and alcohol addictions including deaths are increasing due to lock downs - do you care?

The loss of life due to COVID restrictions is very high and so is the economic losses and the lost education to the young - some of whom will never recover and will negatively impact them for the rest of their lives.
 
YADA said:
You presume a great deal about me and my life under COVID…
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I only know what you have posted. But I know a lot more about the precautions - or lack of them, that America has taken. Whatever position you find yourself in is a direct result of those precautions. Or lack of them.
 
YADA said:
I love you with all my heart and I wanted and needed a hug - you got that? I said … all you remember is that I love you dearly and I wanted a hug”
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Most of us like and want hugs. Not getting one at this time is called having discipline, being responsible, and doing the right thing. It is a sacrifice to keep everyone safe.

I don’t understand your line of thinking. This situation is temporary. Why take unnecessary risks?
 
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Freddy said:
And did you watch Trump’s 46 minutes of stream-of-consciousness ramble?
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Your complete neutrality and objectivity has been duly noted.

My take: His speech was quite calm, reserved and to the point. Stated in such a way as to inform at a level that the general public could grasp.

His goal was not to convert you.

I have read a large number of your posts, speaking of “stream-of-consciousness rambling.” 😏
 
JMMJ said:
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YADA:
I love you with all my heart and I wanted and needed a hug - you got that? I said … all you remember is that I love you dearly and I wanted a hug”
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Most of us like and want hugs. Not getting one at this time is called having discipline, being responsible, and doing the right thing. It is a sacrifice to keep everyone safe.

I don’t understand your line of thinking. This situation is temporary. Why take unnecessary risks?
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Millions of people are losing their livelihoods and sources of income. Many are fearful of leaving their homes to receive proper medical treatment for serious and life threatening conditions precisely because of the public hysteria. No big deal, I suppose?

The social cohesion has been seriously jeopardized by authorities arresting people for not wearing masks or just being outside in public. Family gatherings prohibited and holidays cancelled. People are being told to snitch on their neighbors.

The full effects of this are completely unknown, but the simplistic view that these measures “save lives” is just that.

It is actually a good thing that some countries, states and provinces have chosen not to go into full panic mode. They will stand as clear comparable cases to the more dystopian jurisdictions.
 
My question was about why someone would take an unnecessary risk, though. Not about anything in your post.

It was a simple question. I don’t understand why people do that.
 
JMMJ said:
My question was about why someone would take an unnecessary risk, though. Not about anything in your post.

It was a simple question. I don’t understand why people do that.
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Why should the state be the ultimate authority over what individuals consider to be unnecessary risks? Are people not competent to determine that for themselves? Why should the state completely remove the capacity for responsible and autonomous determinations from individuals?

One rule cannot possibly cover all the possible circumstances that an individual at the granular level is better positioned to consider in order to make a proper decision for themselves.

A free society has been the goal of western civilization for centuries precisely because individual rights and freedoms are seen as essential to a robust and thriving society.

A state where a few government actors pretend to know what is best for everyone and then dictate that to all is a regressive society.
 
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Science is what should inform people. Unfortunately, it seems a lot of people don’t remember the basics of viruses. 7th grade biology isn’t too difficult.
 
YADA said:
Per the CDC - As of August 21st - 188 children [described as age 17 and under age ] have died of the flu in the 2019/2020 flu season.
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Flu season in the US peaks between December and February, so schools were all open during the peak of the flu season.
 
HarryStotle said:
Why should the state completely remove the capacity for responsible and autonomous determinations from individuals?
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“Your right to swing your arm ends at my nose”, to poorly paraphrase the original saying.

If you’re drinking doesn’t affect me, it can be a personal choice. If you drink and drive it’s extremely foreseeable that you’ll hurt someone else, so we curtail that.

So the question becomes at what point does risking the spread of a potentially deadly disease become something we should curtail. Obviously different people are going to draw that line at different places, which is the source of the current disagreement playing out.
 
It was not an unnecessary risk …you all are under the impression that people are not capable of being responsible, that they are not intelligent or adult enough to know when and where it is appropriate to wear a mask and socially distance.

I know my adult children and the precautions they observe. I know my self. I dont need the government to dictate my every action. I don’t get sick often, even a common cold. Why? Because guess what… I wash my hands, I practice good hygiene and good “germ” avoidance.

You all have focused on a visit I had with family a full five months into lock down …I bet you have households that are more numerous Than mine which is ONE person me. By that fact alone I am more COVID safe than you.

How about addressing this thread topic which is deaths of children …which are far greater for influenza than COVID …even this year with a vaccine that protects against four flu strains and with all the lockdowns and school closures?

How about addressing the harm the lockdowns are doing which includes death? COVID is not the only illness from which people die …

We know who is at the greatest risk …by and large that group can and should isolate. That group - especially those over 75 and with health issues are not the ones unable to go to work and school. Their financial health is no more at jeopardy than without the virus. They already completed school and careers.

Mitigation is not going to stop the virus from spreading. It merely flattens the curve. Most people, as with other viruses recover. We need to let children go back to school and stop the hype over COVID and ignoring the harm being done with the shutdown - those harms are real - lives are being lost, lives are suffering great harm
 
I was hospitalized for months with covid. Two family members died from it. This was very early, before we even knew what it was.

If you are having to give your grand child the talk you described, then again I ask, why would you risk it?
 
I am sorry for your loss and your illness.

I said that to him to put his fears at rest that somehow he was placing me in jeapardy - he was not …because of the hysteria and apocalyptic language and reaction in the world. I said it so he would understand I had no fears …and IF by some chance at sometime I did contract COVID and die he would understand that it was not through any fault of his.

We have people blaming others for COVID deaths that are not responsible. If there is a culpable party it is communist leadership of China who knew and failed to warn the world of what was happening in Wuhan. While not warning the world they restricted travel from Wuhan to Chinese destinations while allowing Wuhan travel to the world.

My grandchildren are not to blame even if they contracted it and inadvertently passed it along. My grandchildren made masks and gave them away. My grandchildren wear masks from the 23 year old essential worker keeping groceries on people’s tables right down to the 4 year old.

This hysteria and single focus is unhealthy. It is causing great harm
 
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JMMJ said:
I was hospitalized for months with covid. Two family members died from it. This was very early, before we even knew what it was.

If you are having to give your grand child the talk you described, then again I ask, why would you risk it?
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It may also be the case that wearing a mask all day, handling it and contaminating it with repeated removal and wearing on nose and mouth and near eyes, might make masks a nexus for spread of the virus.

The three largest cities in the area where I live mandated masks and shortly thereafter rates of infection skyrocketed.

I have not seen credible and definitive studies showing masks as worn on a daily basis are of any value in controlling a virus. Where is the science? There is none.

Assuming doing something just for the sake of doing something will help, might be a mistaken assumption that is psychologically reassuring rather than of any real benefit.
 
Masks control spread. When you sneeze or cough (and, yes, breath) it is more difficult for the molecules to project. It is simple physics. Again, something we all (should have) learned in elementary school science classes.
 
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HarryStotle said:
I have not seen credible and definitive studies showing masks as worn on a daily basis are of any value in controlling a virus. Where is the science? There is none.
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If you or a member of your family needs an operation, tell the surgeon and the rest of the op staff that there’s no need to wear a mask. It serves no purpose…
 
HarryStotle said:
Why should the state be the ultimate authority over what individuals consider to be unnecessary risks?
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Because the risks in question affect others in society. It is like saying I want to drive after drinking alcohol because why should the government be in charge of what I as an individual consider an unnecessary risk?
 
LeafByNiggle said:
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HarryStotle:
Why should the state be the ultimate authority over what individuals consider to be unnecessary risks?
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Because the risks in question affect others in society. It is like saying I want to drive after drinking alcohol because why should the government be in charge of what I as an individual consider an unnecessary risk?
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CanI ask you, Harry, if you.wear a seatbelt or avoid driving after drinking?
 
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