Only 31 deaths of children under age 15 involving COVID-19. Common flu-related child deaths from 37 to 187 during regular flu season. Should Governors

[TC3033]

You would have to be catholic to understand the spiritual ruin that can happen by withholding access to the sacraments.

Nope, sorry…that’s a cop out…also something to take up with your Bishop.

Interesting how you ignored the initial part of my reply…

 

[1cthlctrth]

begging the question

I don’t expect you to read the entire thread. But because you haven’t, I’m repeating my additional research regarding the science, again:

Coronavirus: Hunting down COVID-19 ​

Roger Highfield, Science Director, talks to Kari Stefansson, whose genetic sequencing project has revealed how the UK infected Iceland, that children don’t seem to infect parents, and how to control COVID-19.

Kari Stefansson is the CEO of the Icelandic company deCODE genetics in Reykjavík, which has studied the spread of COVID-19 in Iceland with Iceland’s Directorate of Health and the National University Hospital:

ARE SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE AT RISK THAN OTHERS?​

The clinical diversity of COVID-19 is another big question. Some people describe it as a mild cold. Others end up on a respirator and die.

Men are much more likely to become infected than women. If women get infected, they do not get as sick as men.

Children under 10 are less likely to get infected than adults and if they get infected, they are less likely to get seriously ill. What is interesting is that even if children do get infected, they are less likely to transmit the disease to others than adults. We have not found a single instance of a child infecting parents.

STEFANSSON CONDUCTED THE ICELAND STUDY THAT YOU"RE REFERRING TO.

In addition, you can find references to other scientific studies throughout this thread.

 

[esieffe]

I just can’t believe how off the rails this debate has become in America. It is a shame that it has become so politicized as well. Even more so when you consider this is or should be common sense.

We need to keep the case count down until a vaccine is approved and distributed. If we overwhelm our ERs and ICUs even more people will die. There are some promising treatments and vaccines moving to phase three clinical trials soon.

Masks reduce droplets containing the virus from being exhaled out into a room and they also reduce those being breathed in. I would think anyone who cares about their fellow human beings would want to wear a mask.

The OP is right about one thing. Too many pampered Americans don’t want to bear the minor discomfort of wearing a mask and that is why keeping schools on a virtual basis is important. Many kids won’t wear a mask and schools are germ factories. Even though there have been more than enough fatalities in the younger age groups to sober people up to the facts, everyone knows that your immortal until you hit your 40s. That’s when maturity starts setting in.

Social distancing is impossible in a school. Hallways are always packed, lines in the cafeteria, you can’t open the windows, riding home on the buses… if we open up the schools now, this runaway infection rate boom we have now is going to go atomic.

 

[tuffsmurf]

The vaccine might still be a year or more away. Perhaps sooner, but I believe that to be a bit too optimistic. Having schools closed for another year just isn’t an option.

 

[esieffe]

The vaccine might still be a year or more away. Perhaps sooner, but I believe that to be a bit too optimistic. Having schools closed for another year just isn’t an option.

Actually it is. If the virus has a morality rate of only 1% and that is a bit on the conservative side globally then seventy eight million people could die. So yeah, it is very much an option.

 

[tuffsmurf]

If you lived before the vaccine against measles and mumps (which was only developed about 40 years ago), would you support prolonged lockdowns when epidemics of those arose?

 

[esieffe]

If it meant saving tens of millions of lives, you betcha. Not only that, we have the internet /virtual teaching. Seriously closing the schools during a major pandemic once every hundred years or so to save one percent or more of earth’s population isn’t a big ask.

 

[tuffsmurf]

Millons of children died from those diseases, yet the idea of lockdowns were never entertained. If we were to have a lockdown and close schools for a year for every covid-scale epidemic, we would have to do it more frequently than once every hundred year. More like four times per century.
Online learning isn’t working for a lot of children, especially young ones. Do we leave them with one year without education?

 

[esieffe]

Yes, absolutely.

 

[tuffsmurf]

So you would sacrifice some people in order to save others.

 

[EXdrinker]

EXdrinker:

You would have to be catholic to understand the spiritual ruin that can happen by withholding access to the sacraments.

Nope, sorry…that’s a cop out…also something to take up with your Bishop.

Interesting how you ignored the initial part of my reply…

How is that a cop out? If you are not a faithful catholic you have no experience of the sacraments of confession and communion in a proper context and would not understand how their absence as well as last rites can lead to spiritual ruin for people. Obviously it was a failure of bishops to adequately bring forth safe ways to administer these early on and not forcing these safe ways to be allowed by civil authorities.

There is no need to “do tell” concerning financial and psychological ruin. Disagreeing that this has happened to many doesn’t warrant a response. It is flat out biased refusal if one cannot see this.

 

[Peeps]

Yes, absolutely.

Do you live in the United States?

Do you work for a living? It’s not a trick question–if you are retired, you are no longer “working for a living”. Same if you are independently-wealthy, perhaps from an invention years ago, or from an inheritance, or from winning a sweepstakes or lottery. The question is, do you WORK at this time for a living, and that work/job can be at home or at a work site.

Are you married?

Do you have school-aged children?

Do you have babies or toddlers who are not yet school-aged?

Do your school-aged children work with you to help earn the family living? Again, not a trick question–if you are in show business, it’s very possible that you have a family “act” that is on the road or appears in a local place on stage (e.g., in Branson, Missouri). Or if you farm, especially if you are farming with no modern conveniences (as the Amish do), your children may be involved in the farm work even from a young age (babies carried on yoru back). Or if your family has a family business, like soap-making or wine-making, or whatever (they used to call them “cottage industries”), your children may be involved with the business and helping with the work.

 

[1cthlctrth]

You would have to be catholic to understand the spiritual ruin that can happen by withholding access to the sacraments.

Excellent point! I’m absolutely astonished about the cold-hearted lack of compassion during this pandemic towards Catholics who haven’t been permitted to receive the Sacraments. Especially towards those of us (like me) who would regularly go to Confession.

ESPECIALLY ANNOINTING OF THE SICK.

 

[whatistrue]

Millons of children died from those diseases, yet the idea of lockdowns were never entertained

And we didn’t have the vaccines for many of those “childhood diseases” then either. I grew up when a child was more or less expected to contract measles, mumps, possibly rubella and almost definitely chicken pox. I thankfully didn’t get mumps before a vaccine was available to me, but I did get measles and chicken pox. Now that the incidence has been greatly reduced because vaccines are widely available, if there were an outbreak I would expect there to be at least some sort of quarantine system implemented.

 

[tuffsmurf]

Yes, and it is great that we have a vaccine against those diseases (although I am still not sure about the chicken pox vaccine, but all the others my child will get for sure). The point is that in the times before the vaccines, society didn’t stop and school didn’t shut down when an epidemic came to town. Life was mostly carried on as normal. We are now in a time pre Covid-vaccine. If a vaccine isn’t here very soon, we will just have to live with it, just as we lived with measles and even smallpox further back.

 

[whatistrue]

Yes, social attitudes changed. The fact that there wasn’t a lot that we could do to prevent those deaths helped foster a more fatalistic view of life and the world. Is that attitude better than now, when we can prevent more childhood deaths?

 

[pnewton]

I don’t expect you to read the entire thread. But because you haven’t

Please do not assume. You are mistaken. I even addressed the issue of this way of using science either here or on another thread.

Many kids won’t wear a mask and schools are germ factories.

I have addressed that to our local board, asking for something close to zero tolerance on that. We will have both in person, and virtual class. Those who do not wear masks and keep taking them off must be sent to the virtual class.

Social distancing is impossible in a school. Hallways are always packed, lines in the cafeteria, you can’t open the windows, riding home on the buses…

Staggered schedules, staggered lunches. Hepa and UV filters installed on HVAC.

I guess it depends on what is considered essential. I believe children are essential and their education is essential to the continual operation of our society.

Is that attitude better than now, when we can prevent more childhood deaths?

Just remember this is not the issue. It is deaths from the spread of the disease that drives the need to use precaution with children, those with whom they will have contact with.

 

[tuffsmurf]

The zero tolerance policy is something I have major issues with. The children who are most likely to take off their masks are also the ones who most likely won’t be able to learn from the virtual teaching. For example children with ADHD.

 

[pnewton]

are also the ones who most likely won’t be able to learn from the virtual teaching. For example children with ADHD.

It is a problem, and there is no good solution. This year, however, I believe physical health issues have to take priority of mental health issues. That is only my opinion. If we can continue to educate most children, the idea of no child left behind might have to wait until death is no longer being factored in.

 

[TC3033]

If you are not a faithful catholic you have no experience of the sacraments of confession and communion in a proper context and would not understand how their absence as well as last rites can lead to spiritual ruin for people.

Well…I’m married to one and am in a family of many. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Obviously it was a failure of bishops to adequately bring forth safe ways to administer these early on and not forcing these safe ways to be allowed by civil authorities.

There we’re in agreement, it was up to the bishops. I, for one, think they did the correct thing. Are you saying all of these bishops are/were wrong?

There is no need to “do tell” concerning financial and psychological ruin.

That’s why I didn’t bold it.