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meltzerboy2
Guest
I know this has been happening big time at colleges across the country. It’s a nuisance and worse for nearly everyone but it must be done.
Only 31 deaths of children under age 15 involving COVID-19. Common flu-related child deaths from 37 to 187 during regular flu season. Should Governors
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EXdrinker
Guest
Remember that you can always find a job that you believe poses less risk. You are voluntarily going through all of this, no one is forcing you to do it.
I am personally getting very tired of the cavalier attitudes towards millions of people’s lives and liberty by shutting so much of our economy down and causing them financial, psycological, and spirtual ruin.
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meltzerboy2
Guest
We do agree that many parents are in a bind and, further, that one size does not fit all when it comes to schools. Staggered schedules, blended schedules, online classes are ways to reduce class size. It’s an inconvenience for both students and teachers, but local school districts should be able to cope as best they can. Special-needs students have it particularly rough not being able to take in-person classes, and also online if the program does not meet their needs. But I know of no school or district that is simply closing schools altogether.
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blackforest
Well-known member
I haven’t read the replies, but I see both a strawman and a serious false dichotomy in your title. The strawman: Nobody has proposed a “permanent” shut-down. Everything I’m seeing calls for temporary measures.
The false dilemma: Re-opening schools and shutting them down are not our only two options. My children will be online schooling from home. Other children will have part-time classes in person and study from home the rest of the week.
Let’s get past the black and white thinking, then we can have a real conversation about this critical issue.
The false dilemma: Re-opening schools and shutting them down are not our only two options. My children will be online schooling from home. Other children will have part-time classes in person and study from home the rest of the week.
Let’s get past the black and white thinking, then we can have a real conversation about this critical issue.
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Thorolfr
Guest
Here’s another study reported in the New York Times three days ago:
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Elizabeth3
Guest
My personal opinion is that schools in general are taking precautions to an extreme that is not necessary given the statistics on children and this virus. I’m a homemaker so I opted to have my daughter stay home and take classes online. My reason for this decision is not because I’m afraid to send her to school because of the virus, it’s because the measures my school is taking will leave my daughter in a very unnatural, utilitarian environment. (Socially distanced lunches with all children facing one way, same in the classroom, small groups isolated from other small groups, masks, distanced gym classes with exercises but no contact games, no equipment used, locker room off limits, shortened school day, staggered busing with kids not sitting together and every other seat used, no school trips or assemblies etc.)
My school sent a survey home to parents asking what they want for their children to go to school. I picked option 1 which was a return to the traditional classroom with extra opportunity for hand sanitizing and washing only. My second choice if that was not available was to homeschool online through our district. My daughter will be in our home with her sisters and parents socializing normally, hugging, kissing, talking, laughing, (bickering as families do).
I want most schools open mostly normally with a little more attention to hygiene. That’s the healthiest environment for the kids socially and mentally for normal development. However, I understand that schools are going to extremes because people are so fear-paralyzed and they are probably protecting themselves from lawsuits. If some children are at risk of being left home alone or their parents are struggling to pay for childcare, then it’s best if schools are open in some form because they are safer there, even if socially the whole thing is unnatural and not developmentally healthy.
JoeFreedom
New member
Amen. [More characters]
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meltzerboy2
Guest
I agree this whole situation is not developmentally healthy for children, nor adults for that matter. But I think it needs to be done, not permanently but at least for the rest of the year. Meanwhile, schools should continuously reevaluate their protocol while hoping there are no outbreaks. Since we still don’t know an awful lot about this virus, particularly with regard to children, it is better to be (relatively) safe than sorry.
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TC3033
Guest
My kids attend public schools, are vaccinated and raised by my wife and I. Who’s leaving it up to the state…
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Thorolfr
Guest
However, as the large South Korean study has shown, it depends on how old the children are. Children over ten can apparently spread the virus as easily as adults. So, children from about 5th grade on should probably be treated differently than younger children.
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TC3033
Guest
They’re school teachers…they didn’t enlist 11B in the Army.Do tell, especially about the bolded…
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Elizabeth3
Guest
While that study is interesting, there are some things that could skew the results. It studied spread within families at home. The typical family home in South Korea is a high rise apartment building so it’s very possible that the adults are still getting infected from other adults sharing hallways, elevators and heating/cooling systems and not necessarily as much from their teen children. I would like to see more studies in different environments before hanging my hat on the outcome of that one particular study.
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NeedANap
Guest
Not everyone on this forum is from the US. In many countries the flu vaccine is only recommended for at-risk populations, not encouraged for everyone. I don’t know why, and I haven’t been able to get a clear answer as to why.
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Peeps
Guest
What exactly is “too soon?” How many months? Or years?
And how are people to live in the meantime?
I’ll be honest, in our city, where only 15% of the public school children achieve grade level on the standardized tests, I see no reason to open public schools ever. I see no reason for children to attend these schools, and no reason to continue paying taxes to employ the teachers who have not been able, in spite of their Master’s Degrees and continuing education and training, to teach their students in such a way as to make it possible for them to at least achieve scores indicating that they are at grade level.
In the meantime, most of the PRIVATE schools in our city are planning to open and have classes 5 days a week. As for the thousands of students in our city who are homeschooled (and yes, there are thousands), they have never stopped having school.
So perhaps COVID-19 has just given us a golden opportunity to end the whole farce of public education.
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tuffsmurf
Guest
I live in Europe and only at-risk people get the flu vaccine. I have had the flu multiple times in my life.
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meltzerboy2
Guest
There are phases of reopening that the CDC has provided and which were introduced by Trump’s coronavirus taskforce to the general public. Unfortunately, the administration itself, as well as the governors of several states, has seen fit to bypass these phases and jump to reopening bars, gyms, restaurants, and stores without following the prescribed protocol. The results are the surge in cases which we now see in states such as Texas, Florida, Arizona, California, and others. Schools cannot be fully reopened in the form of in-person classes in such areas without risking further outbreaks affecting teachers, staff, children, and communities. This should be a matter of months, not years. However, we Americans, guided by the inept leadership of our President and some governors, have created a present situation in which the death toll will continue to rise if the WH does not alter its current course. But just today, Trump has stated that we have been successful in curtailing the virus, even in the midst of a surge in hospitalizations and deaths. At the same time, however, he said it would get worse before it gets better, and the virus will disappear. It will NOT disappear unless we follow a good plan, the plan we should have followed months ago, formulated by the CDC.
I cannot speak for the public schools in your community. I have stated that one size does not fit all, and that applies not only to the reopening of in-class learning but also to the effectiveness of public education (which is the topic of another thread). All I can say is that, as far as I am aware, no public or private school has completely shut down. What many, both public and private schools, have done instead is change the mode of instruction from in-person to online or hybrid, depending on the risks involved for their city and state in opening the schools for on-site education.
I cannot speak for the public schools in your community. I have stated that one size does not fit all, and that applies not only to the reopening of in-class learning but also to the effectiveness of public education (which is the topic of another thread). All I can say is that, as far as I am aware, no public or private school has completely shut down. What many, both public and private schools, have done instead is change the mode of instruction from in-person to online or hybrid, depending on the risks involved for their city and state in opening the schools for on-site education.
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1cthlctrth
Guest
I agree. Now, I have greater appreciation for the truckers, minimum wage stock boys, cashiers, maintenance men, doctors, and nurses who weren’t cavalier about the needs of others during this pandemic. Imagine what would happen to society if everybody did nothing.
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Peeps
Guest
Wow.
I had the flu once, when I was in my 40s and was not getting the flu shot every year because I stupidly thought the flu was no big deal. I was healthy, strong, reasonably fit, and very active, and also working full time and had two school-aged daughters who were active in school and extracurriculars (including figure skating, which they practiced every morning from 5:30 a.m. until 7:00 a.m.).
But in the midst of all this life, I got inlluenza, diagnosed by my doctor, not by me.
I missed two weeks of work, and spent all my time during those weeks in my bed with a fever of around 101-102, and coughing constantly. I couldn’t eat much. I couldn’t read because I couldn’t see well, my vision was blurry.
I started getting sick a few days before Christmas. My husband took my children to stay at their grandparents. I missed Christmas entirely. This was back in the days before TiVo and we didn’t have cable, and I couldn’t have made it into the family room anyway, so I watched (or tried to watch) a tiny little TV and watched whatever was on. The only thing I remember watching was Dateline with Keith Morrison.
The fever finally broke in January, and I went back to work (I had used up most of my leave time). On my first day back at work, I had trouble breathing, and my supervisor told me that I was blue. When I looked in the mirror, I was BLUE, like a police officer’s uniform blue! I was gasping for air and could barely walk across the room. My supervisor told me to go to the doctor right away, so I called my doc, punched out, and drove myself to my clinic, where my doctor listened to my lungs, did a chest xray and said, “You have pneumonia!” He showed my the xray–there was a big ball in one of my lungs–bacterial pneumonia, a common sequelae of influenze, and it kills a lot of flu sufferers.
He wanted to put me in the hospital, but I didn’t want to go, so he sent my home with antibiotics. I spent another two weeks at home and my kids were not allowed to be near me.
When I finally recovered and went back to work, I was so weak that I couldn’t work a full day, and my chest still hurt and I still had trouble taking a deep breath. And for the next year, I had to have a chest X-ray every three months because bacterial pneumonia can “lie low” and come back again.
I have never missed a flu shot since.
Many people in the U.S. die of influenzae, and every year except this one, the lab where I work is swamped with flu tests and we end up working a lot of overtime to keep up with the testing. And many of them are positive for flu–a lot of people don’t think that it’s necessary to get a flu shot, and they end up like I did, only some die.
Again, wow. Good luck.
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pnewton
Guest
You picked the one that is begging the question! Congratulations!
As always, science does not work by searching our results to quasi-match what one wants to do. that is confusing science with internet blogging.
As always, science does not work by searching our results to quasi-match what one wants to do. that is confusing science with internet blogging.
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Peeps
Guest
Here’s the problem, meltzerboy2.
MANY parents work. Fulltime. Both Dad and Mom.
During the last several months, many parents are STILL working at a job site, not at home. And those who are able to continue working from home are WORKING at least 8 hours a day. Many at-home workers are claiming that they are working even longer hours.
So… the problem is, who supervises the kids at home? Who makes sure that they are paying attention to the “online learning” and doing the online assignments and sending off to the teacher?
In our district, the schools are requiring 5 hours a day of online learning! Fools.
Do the arithmetic–parents work 8 hours a day, and then spend another hour or two keeping their home in order–menu planning, grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning up (or sending out for food, but that gets expensive if it’s done every day), and sleeping around 6-7 hours a night–do you really think that most parents can spend another 5 hours making sure that their kids are doing their online learning?
Not all kids complacently sit down with their computer for five hours of educational activity.
And not all parents can work 10 hours (job and home work) and then work another 5 hours with their kids and then try to sleep to do it all over again day after day. Most people need some down time, especially if their job is demanding.
I work in a hospital lab, and around 85 % of us are women, and around 85% of those women have young children and teenagers. Most of us are college-educated.
In the last five months, I have talked to many of my associates who are at the end of their rope! One of my co-workers was working all day, and then coming home, making a dinner, cleaning up the dinner, and spending her entire evening until after 10 p.m. fighting with her three children to get them to do all the schoolwork that they didn’t do during the day because her husband (working from home) had no time to work with them and keep them on task!
A month into the shut-down,she and her husband gave up, told the school “forget it, our kids are done with school, this isn’t working.” And so her children have been playing all day since April.
She absolutely refuses to try to try to get them to do online schooling this fall. It is NOT an option for her family.
And many others in my lab say the same thing.
And think about the single parents!
Here’s what everyone touting “online learning” has to come to grips with–many kids just can’t do it. They do not learn that way. They are “hands-on” learners, or they need face-to-face, verbal interaction, or they learn in “team” settings. They don’t have the discipline for 5 hours of online WORK.
And the other thing that everyone has to come to grips with is that many parents, MOST parents, are NOT capable of schooling their own children at home.
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