G
gilliam
Guest
Video: Cardinal Dolan on countercultural bishops
youtube.com/watch?v=wlCVrC2C16Y&feature=youtu.be
youtube.com/watch?v=wlCVrC2C16Y&feature=youtu.be
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M
Megan7
Guest
Thank you for the links.
We have to pray for our Bishops & Cardinals. We have to pray for our Church.
M
Megan7
Guest
Interesting website. Thanks.
M
Megan7
Guest
Thanks for the post.
Cardinal Burke, Cardinal Muller, the Polish Archbishops give me hope. God bless them all.
M
McCall1981
Guest
ncregister.com/blog/joan-desmond/father-check-from-the-courage-responds-to-synod-report
Father Check from the Courage Responds to Synod Report
“Now Father Paul Check, who leads the international Courage apostolate, which helps Catholics with same-sex attraction live in accord with Catholic teaching on chastity, has expressed concern about this passage. During an interview today, he said that Courage members are worried and confused about the message from Synod”
Father Check from the Courage Responds to Synod Report
“Now Father Paul Check, who leads the international Courage apostolate, which helps Catholics with same-sex attraction live in accord with Catholic teaching on chastity, has expressed concern about this passage. During an interview today, he said that Courage members are worried and confused about the message from Synod”
J
Joe_5859
Guest
Fr. Barron’s commentary on the Synod process is very good:
Having patience for the sausage-making Synod of Bishops
The only reason there is so much hulabaloo is because of Pope Francis’ popularity, the topic up for discussion, and the advent of social media. With all three together, the world (or at least a certain subset of the internet world) is paying much closer attention to the goings-on. People didn’t pay much attention to the last synod because it was on the New Evangelization and most people’s eyes probably glazed over before finishing the word “evangelization.”
Not so with this synod.
It makes me wonder what things would have been like if social media, forums, blogs, and mass communication existed around the time of the Council of Nicea. It would have been pure pandemonium.
Yes, the process is messy. But for me, that is evidence of the Holy Spirit’s guidance of the Church. He can take all of this mess and all of these passionate disagreements and make His will known to us through it all. Just wait until we get to the post-synodal exhortation some time in 2016 or 2017. It’s going to be magnificent. But the road to get there might have a few pot holes.
Having patience for the sausage-making Synod of Bishops
The only reason there is so much hulabaloo is because of Pope Francis’ popularity, the topic up for discussion, and the advent of social media. With all three together, the world (or at least a certain subset of the internet world) is paying much closer attention to the goings-on. People didn’t pay much attention to the last synod because it was on the New Evangelization and most people’s eyes probably glazed over before finishing the word “evangelization.”
Not so with this synod.It makes me wonder what things would have been like if social media, forums, blogs, and mass communication existed around the time of the Council of Nicea. It would have been pure pandemonium.
Yes, the process is messy. But for me, that is evidence of the Holy Spirit’s guidance of the Church. He can take all of this mess and all of these passionate disagreements and make His will known to us through it all. Just wait until we get to the post-synodal exhortation some time in 2016 or 2017. It’s going to be magnificent. But the road to get there might have a few pot holes.
O
One_point
Guest
majority of 200 bishops there are how many bishops in the world? if the church does this, the church has lost its authority as the unmovable rock that stood still when others shifted with the times. why on earth should I wait until marriage to have sex then? I can move in with my boyfriend and still be in good enough place morally to receive communion. 
I finf it amazing that after the after math of Vatican ii and the problems that we are here again playing the same game. we haven’t learned our lesson it seems. our saints in heaven pray for us!!! maybe it will be good maybe the church will hold firm and reiterate that the catholic doctrine is not up for review every 50 years.
I finf it amazing that after the after math of Vatican ii and the problems that we are here again playing the same game. we haven’t learned our lesson it seems. our saints in heaven pray for us!!! maybe it will be good maybe the church will hold firm and reiterate that the catholic doctrine is not up for review every 50 years.
M
McCall1981
Guest
Card Napier recently said (sorry for the awkward translation): "…while it is possible that some factions are trying to adapt to the opinion of the world, the majority when to remain firmly with the truth”.
M
McCall1981
Guest
Some commentary from La Stampa (Marco Tosatti) on the Synod (English translation by Fr. Z):
"When the [Synod’s] supervisor, a Cardinal of the holy Roman Church, disowns more or less explicitly his paternity of a report that bears his signature, there’s a problem.
When the same Cardinal, in referring to a passage of the text, certainly more interesting and abounding with problems, having been asked for an explanation, tosses the response to an Archbishop [synodal] secretary added (by the Pope) to the Synod because he is the author, there’s a problem.
When many bishops and cardinals, from Poland, Africa and Australia, complain that the report, as it is written and presented to the press, does not, according to them, reflect what was said in the Synod hall, and that it adds things that were never said, there’s a problem.
When the text is called “unacceptable” by Cardinals and Bishops, “irredeemable” by another, and when it is said by the Circuli Minores [subcommittees] that “we are working to review the test, strikeout some phrases and so forth, but that it is a sick text [un testo malato] and it isn’t known how many of its proposals can be accepted, there’s a problem.
When there are bishops – and there are more than one – who are saying that they don’t want to come to future Synods if they are conducted like this, because they are turned into a farse, there’s a problem. When the South African Cardinal Napier confirmed on Twitter, namely in the public way, that "while it is possible that some factions are trying to adapt to the opinion of the world, the majority when to remain firmly with the truth” [which sounds much like the title of the “Five Cardinals Book”]; namely, he asserts exactly the contrary of the proposals that some journalists, for various reasons, are trying to confirm, there’s a problem.
When in the choice of the leadership of the Synod an entire continent, in which there is taking place the greatest growth of Christianity and of Catholicism in terms of the faithful (as opposed to Europe and North American, or Latin America where evangelicals are gobbling up millions of ex-Catholics), and, thus, Africa is forgotten, there’s a problem."
wdtprs.com/blog/2014/10/is-the-leadership-of-the-synod-dealing-from-a-stacked-deck/
"When the [Synod’s] supervisor, a Cardinal of the holy Roman Church, disowns more or less explicitly his paternity of a report that bears his signature, there’s a problem.
When the same Cardinal, in referring to a passage of the text, certainly more interesting and abounding with problems, having been asked for an explanation, tosses the response to an Archbishop [synodal] secretary added (by the Pope) to the Synod because he is the author, there’s a problem.
When many bishops and cardinals, from Poland, Africa and Australia, complain that the report, as it is written and presented to the press, does not, according to them, reflect what was said in the Synod hall, and that it adds things that were never said, there’s a problem.
When the text is called “unacceptable” by Cardinals and Bishops, “irredeemable” by another, and when it is said by the Circuli Minores [subcommittees] that “we are working to review the test, strikeout some phrases and so forth, but that it is a sick text [un testo malato] and it isn’t known how many of its proposals can be accepted, there’s a problem.
When there are bishops – and there are more than one – who are saying that they don’t want to come to future Synods if they are conducted like this, because they are turned into a farse, there’s a problem. When the South African Cardinal Napier confirmed on Twitter, namely in the public way, that "while it is possible that some factions are trying to adapt to the opinion of the world, the majority when to remain firmly with the truth” [which sounds much like the title of the “Five Cardinals Book”]; namely, he asserts exactly the contrary of the proposals that some journalists, for various reasons, are trying to confirm, there’s a problem.
When in the choice of the leadership of the Synod an entire continent, in which there is taking place the greatest growth of Christianity and of Catholicism in terms of the faithful (as opposed to Europe and North American, or Latin America where evangelicals are gobbling up millions of ex-Catholics), and, thus, Africa is forgotten, there’s a problem."
wdtprs.com/blog/2014/10/is-the-leadership-of-the-synod-dealing-from-a-stacked-deck/
J
Joe_5859
Guest
Some are calling the whole process of the Synod “messy”, and I think there’s truth to that. As to whether or not that’s a “problem”, I’m less sure. To look at it positively, if these ideas are able to be discussed … and then roundly shot down by the majority of bishops in attendance, I think that’s going to be a good thing, quite possibly better than if these ideas simply festered unspoken beneath the surface. If they are voiced, then there can be a response. And maybe, just maybe, that response will help illustrate the deficiencies of the idea.
That’s my hopeful expectation anyway.
M
McCall1981
Guest
Well, I would agree with you, contingent on the ideas actually getting shot down. Unfortunately, the opposite seems to be happening (or maybe I’m just too pessimistic
)
J
Joe_5859
Guest
I think it’s too soon to tell on that front. Some are certainly painting it that way, but I’m very doubtful that they really have a handle on things. I remain optimistic.Well, I would agree with you, contingent on the ideas actually getting shot down. Unfortunately, the opposite seems to be happening (or maybe I’m just too pessimistic
M
McCall1981
Guest
It’s definitely hard to tell, we seem to be getting a lot of contradictory information.I think it’s too soon to tell on that front. Some are certainly painting it that way, but I’m very doubtful that they really have a handle on things. I remain optimistic.
Good for you for remaining optimistic, I know that’s the way I should be handling it
J
Joe_Kelley
Guest
M
McCall1981
Guest
ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/evidence-emerges-of-an-engineered-synod
Evidence Emerges of an Engineered Synod
"More and more there is talk in Rome that this synod is being engineered by groups intent on steering the Church in a heterodox direction, and increasingly evidence is coming to light that points to it… "
“…whoever was behind the release of the document most probably knew the impact it would have, and effectively sent it over the heads of everyone, including the Pope. When I asked Father Lombardi today if the Holy Father had seen it before it was published, he returned to the fact that it is standard procedure to send out the report – remarkably for such a sensitive document – without even the Pope or the synod presidents having to see it.”
“In his interview with the Register published yesterday, Cardinal Burke said what is being presented to the media does not tally with what’s happening in the assembly. “What is coming out does not reflect the reality, in my judgment,” he said. “I am speaking very openly about it because I think it is my moral obligation.” And he added people “are pushing the agenda” of Cardinal Kasper and his proposal for the divorced and civilly remarried. Some have said this synod reminds them of the methods used to hijack the Second Vatican Council. Veteran Vatican watchers say such engineering is unprecedented in the modern Church.”
Evidence Emerges of an Engineered Synod
"More and more there is talk in Rome that this synod is being engineered by groups intent on steering the Church in a heterodox direction, and increasingly evidence is coming to light that points to it… "
“…whoever was behind the release of the document most probably knew the impact it would have, and effectively sent it over the heads of everyone, including the Pope. When I asked Father Lombardi today if the Holy Father had seen it before it was published, he returned to the fact that it is standard procedure to send out the report – remarkably for such a sensitive document – without even the Pope or the synod presidents having to see it.”
“In his interview with the Register published yesterday, Cardinal Burke said what is being presented to the media does not tally with what’s happening in the assembly. “What is coming out does not reflect the reality, in my judgment,” he said. “I am speaking very openly about it because I think it is my moral obligation.” And he added people “are pushing the agenda” of Cardinal Kasper and his proposal for the divorced and civilly remarried. Some have said this synod reminds them of the methods used to hijack the Second Vatican Council. Veteran Vatican watchers say such engineering is unprecedented in the modern Church.”
J
Joe_5859
Guest
If that is what is happening, I think it will backfire in the end. It’s only going to mobilize the bishops who disagree.
M
Michael1978
Guest
Having Patience for the Sausage-Making Synod
by Fr. Robert Barron . October 14, 2014
The midterm report on the deliberations of the Synod on the Family has appeared and there is a fair amount of hysteria all around. John Thavis, a veteran Vatican reporter who should know better, has declared this statement “an earthquake, the big one that hit after months of smaller tremors.” Certain commentators on the right have been wringing their hands and bewailing a deep betrayal of the Church’s teaching. One even opined that this report is the “silliest document ever issued by the Catholic Church,” and some have said that the interim document flaunts the teaching of St. John Paul II. Meanwhile the New York Times confidently announced that the Church has moved from “condemnation of unconventional family situations and toward understanding, openness, and mercy.” I think everyone should take a deep breath.
What has just appeared is not even close to a definitive, formal teaching of the Catholic Church. It is a report on what has been discussed so far in a synod of some two hundred bishops from around the world. It conveys, to be sure, a certain consensus around major themes, trends that have been evident in the conversations, dominant emphases in the debates, etc., but it decidedly does not represent “the teaching” of the Pope or the bishops.
One of the great mysteries enshrined in the ecclesiology of the Catholic Church is that Christ speaks through the rather messy and unpredictable process of ecclesiastical argument. The Holy Spirit guides the process of course, but he doesn’t undermine or circumvent it. It is precisely in the long, laborious sifting of ideas across time and through disciplined conversation that the truth that God wants to communicate gradually emerges. If you want evidence of this, simply look at the accounts of the deliberations of the major councils of the Church, beginning with the so-called Council of Jerusalem in the first century right through to the Second Vatican Council of the twentieth century. In every such gathering, argument was front and center, and consensus evolved only after lengthy and often acrimonious debate among the interested parties. Read John Henry Newman’s colorful history of the Council of Nicaea in the fourth century, and you’ll find stories of riots in the streets and the mutually pulling of beards among the disputants. Or pick up Yves Congar’s very entertaining diary of his years at Vatican II, and you’ll learn of his own withering critiques of the interventions of prominent Cardinals and rival theologians. Or peruse John O’Malley’s history of the Council of Trent, and you’ll see that early draft statements on the key doctrines of original sin and justification were presented, debated, and dismissed—long before final versions were approved.
Until Vatican II, these preliminary arguments and conversations were known only to the participants themselves and to certain specialist historians who eventually sifted through the records. The great teachings of the Councils became widely known and celebrated, but the process that produced them was, happily enough, consigned to the shadows. If I might quote the great Newman, who had a rather unsatisfying experience of official ecclesial life in Rome: “those who love the barque of Peter ought to stay out of the engine room!” This is a somewhat more refined version of “those who enjoy sausage ought never to watch how it is made.” The interim report on the Synod represents a very early stage of the sausage-making process and, unsurprisingly, it isn’t pretty. Two more weeks of discussion will follow; then a full year during which the findings of the Synod will be further refined, argued about, and clarified; then the Ordinary Synod on the Family will take place (the one going on now is the Extraordinary Synod), and many more arguments and counter-arguments will be made; finally, some months, perhaps even a year or so, after that, the Pope will write a post-Synodal exhortation summing up the entire process and offering a definitive take on the matter. At that point, I would suggest, something resembling edible sausage will be available for our consumption; until then, we should all be patient and refrain from bloviating.
The historian and theologian Martin Marty commented that our debates today about sex and authority are analogous to the arguments in the early centuries of the Church’s life concerning Christology and to the disputes about anthropology and salvation around the time of the Reformation. Those two previous dust-ups took several centuries to resolve, and Marty suggests that we might be in the midst of another centuries long controversy. I’m glad that Pope Francis, at the outset of this Synod, urged the participating bishops to speak their minds clearly and fearlessly. He didn’t want a self-censorship that would unduly hamper the conversation and thereby prevent the truth from emerging. This does not imply for a moment that Pope Francis will agree with every point of view expressed, and indeed he can’t possibly, since many are mutually exclusive. But it does indeed mean that he has the confidence and the patience required to allow the Holy Spirit to work in his preferred fashion.
by Fr. Robert Barron . October 14, 2014
The midterm report on the deliberations of the Synod on the Family has appeared and there is a fair amount of hysteria all around. John Thavis, a veteran Vatican reporter who should know better, has declared this statement “an earthquake, the big one that hit after months of smaller tremors.” Certain commentators on the right have been wringing their hands and bewailing a deep betrayal of the Church’s teaching. One even opined that this report is the “silliest document ever issued by the Catholic Church,” and some have said that the interim document flaunts the teaching of St. John Paul II. Meanwhile the New York Times confidently announced that the Church has moved from “condemnation of unconventional family situations and toward understanding, openness, and mercy.” I think everyone should take a deep breath.
What has just appeared is not even close to a definitive, formal teaching of the Catholic Church. It is a report on what has been discussed so far in a synod of some two hundred bishops from around the world. It conveys, to be sure, a certain consensus around major themes, trends that have been evident in the conversations, dominant emphases in the debates, etc., but it decidedly does not represent “the teaching” of the Pope or the bishops.
One of the great mysteries enshrined in the ecclesiology of the Catholic Church is that Christ speaks through the rather messy and unpredictable process of ecclesiastical argument. The Holy Spirit guides the process of course, but he doesn’t undermine or circumvent it. It is precisely in the long, laborious sifting of ideas across time and through disciplined conversation that the truth that God wants to communicate gradually emerges. If you want evidence of this, simply look at the accounts of the deliberations of the major councils of the Church, beginning with the so-called Council of Jerusalem in the first century right through to the Second Vatican Council of the twentieth century. In every such gathering, argument was front and center, and consensus evolved only after lengthy and often acrimonious debate among the interested parties. Read John Henry Newman’s colorful history of the Council of Nicaea in the fourth century, and you’ll find stories of riots in the streets and the mutually pulling of beards among the disputants. Or pick up Yves Congar’s very entertaining diary of his years at Vatican II, and you’ll learn of his own withering critiques of the interventions of prominent Cardinals and rival theologians. Or peruse John O’Malley’s history of the Council of Trent, and you’ll see that early draft statements on the key doctrines of original sin and justification were presented, debated, and dismissed—long before final versions were approved.
Until Vatican II, these preliminary arguments and conversations were known only to the participants themselves and to certain specialist historians who eventually sifted through the records. The great teachings of the Councils became widely known and celebrated, but the process that produced them was, happily enough, consigned to the shadows. If I might quote the great Newman, who had a rather unsatisfying experience of official ecclesial life in Rome: “those who love the barque of Peter ought to stay out of the engine room!” This is a somewhat more refined version of “those who enjoy sausage ought never to watch how it is made.” The interim report on the Synod represents a very early stage of the sausage-making process and, unsurprisingly, it isn’t pretty. Two more weeks of discussion will follow; then a full year during which the findings of the Synod will be further refined, argued about, and clarified; then the Ordinary Synod on the Family will take place (the one going on now is the Extraordinary Synod), and many more arguments and counter-arguments will be made; finally, some months, perhaps even a year or so, after that, the Pope will write a post-Synodal exhortation summing up the entire process and offering a definitive take on the matter. At that point, I would suggest, something resembling edible sausage will be available for our consumption; until then, we should all be patient and refrain from bloviating.
The historian and theologian Martin Marty commented that our debates today about sex and authority are analogous to the arguments in the early centuries of the Church’s life concerning Christology and to the disputes about anthropology and salvation around the time of the Reformation. Those two previous dust-ups took several centuries to resolve, and Marty suggests that we might be in the midst of another centuries long controversy. I’m glad that Pope Francis, at the outset of this Synod, urged the participating bishops to speak their minds clearly and fearlessly. He didn’t want a self-censorship that would unduly hamper the conversation and thereby prevent the truth from emerging. This does not imply for a moment that Pope Francis will agree with every point of view expressed, and indeed he can’t possibly, since many are mutually exclusive. But it does indeed mean that he has the confidence and the patience required to allow the Holy Spirit to work in his preferred fashion.
G
gilliam
Guest
Synod of Bishops 2014: The drama is back
A view from John Allen
cruxnow.com/church/2014/10/15/synod-of-bishops-2014-the-drama-is-back/
A view from John Allen
cruxnow.com/church/2014/10/15/synod-of-bishops-2014-the-drama-is-back/
G
gilliam
Guest
A shift in tone from the Catholic Church?
Guests: Elizabeth Dias, Father James Martin and Michael Viola
On Monday, Catholic bishops from around the world meeting in Rome released a report suggesting a change of tone in how the Church views gays and lesbians. The Bishops were clear that there was no movement regarding official doctrine but did say that Catholics should be more welcoming of gays and lesbians and also more accepting of couples living together before marriage and those who are divorced. Joining us to talk about the implications of the report, what happens next and what it all means for the Catholic Church are Jesuit priest FATHER JAMES MARTIN and MICHAEL VIOLA, president of Dignity/Philadelphia, a community of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender Catholics and their families. We’ll also hear from Time religion correspondent ELIZABETH DIAS.
Guests: Elizabeth Dias, Father James Martin and Michael Viola
On Monday, Catholic bishops from around the world meeting in Rome released a report suggesting a change of tone in how the Church views gays and lesbians. The Bishops were clear that there was no movement regarding official doctrine but did say that Catholics should be more welcoming of gays and lesbians and also more accepting of couples living together before marriage and those who are divorced. Joining us to talk about the implications of the report, what happens next and what it all means for the Catholic Church are Jesuit priest FATHER JAMES MARTIN and MICHAEL VIOLA, president of Dignity/Philadelphia, a community of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender Catholics and their families. We’ll also hear from Time religion correspondent ELIZABETH DIAS.
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