Open Thread on Zimmerman Trial

[MaryT777]

It looks to me like Zimmerman initiated the confrontation and then found himself on the losing end of a fight at which point he pulls out his gun and kills Martin.

Sounds like second degree to me.

He did initiate the confrontation and I agree it seems for now it’s second degree.
We must listen to all the evidence though for he is innocent until proven guilty.

Also, the Judge will allow Zimmerman’s prior calls to 911 regarding “suspicious persons” allowed in the trial.

The neighborhood watch trainer said that under no way and circumstance were they to follow anyone and that was taught straight from the police officers as well.

So we’ll see.

Stand your ground makes the case more difficult.

Apparently from what’s been stated even if you hunt someone down as a suspicious
character, and follow them against the 911 thoughts and how you were trained as a neighborhood watch patrol man if the confrontation turns and you are at risk you can kill someone in self defense.

Thus the big problem is the Stand your ground law of course; where basically you can follow someone around, imagine in your head their skittles and drink are guns and shoot them if they dare come by and ask “Why are you following me?”
Frightening.

Sounds to me as if Martin stood his ground and got shot for it.

 

[MaryT777]

Nor do I. She has changed her story a few times. Also, the fact that she couldn’t read the letter that she wrote because it was written in cursive doesn’t make her look credible at all. Her testimony was that a friend helped her write the letter, but even so, I question credibility.

Zimmerman has told several different accounts of what happened. So we’ll see at the end of the day who sounds more credible. The burden is on the prosecution so many legal experts believe it will be a hung jury which will lead to Zimmerman’s freedom.

Not matter what the outcome it’s a sad sad event

English isn’t even her first language. Even though she can speak it and understand it as a second language I don’t think she understands the nuances of legal cross examination English for lack of a better word.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Sounds to me as if Martin stood his ground and got shot for it.

Unless one believes Zimmerman:

*Zimmerman picked up the written narrative: “The dispatcher told me not to follow the suspect & that an officer was on the way. As I headed back to my vehicle the suspect emerged from the darkness and said, ‘You got a problem?’”

When Zimmerman answered “No,” the suspect said, “You do now.”*

I don’t think I do.

 

[Cider]

Sounds to me as if Martin stood his ground and got shot for it.

Martin can’t claim stand your ground when he is the one that beat the **** out of Zimmerman. No one saw the initial confrontation and Martins girlfriend is not credible. Additionally Zimmerman had obvious and documented defensive wounds on the back of his head and face but no evidence of offensive actions such as bruised knuckles. Unlike Martin. Even if Zimmerman did follow him, that isn’t against the law.

 

[SwizzleStick]

…English isn’t even her first language. Even though she can speak it and understand it as a second language I don’t think she understands the nuances of legal cross examination English for lack of a better word.

The fact that she is of Haitian descent aside, she seemed to have a pretty good grasp of the language on the stand. (Her texts would contradict that.) But on the stand, she is the one who volunteered “I don’t read cursive.”

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Sounds like you have no familiarity with the actual facts of the case and haven’t listened to any of the testimony.

“actual facts”? That would pretty much be the recorded 911 call, wouldn’t it.
And no. I have not listened to any testimony.

 

[MaryT777]

Martin can’t claim stand your ground when he is the one that beat the **** out of Zimmerman. No one saw the initial confrontation and Martins girlfriend is not credible. Additionally Zimmerman had obvious and documented defensive wounds on the back of his head and face but no evidence of offensive actions such as bruised knuckles. Unlike Martin. Even if Zimmerman did follow him, that isn’t against the law.

You’re right it’s not against the law but how would you like some police wanna be
vigilante following you around. If he has followed the advice of the 911 operator
(who can’t give advice but can suggest "we don’t need you to follow him) and that of the neighborhood watch protocol and called the police and left it at that, stayed in his car,
he’d never have been assaulted.

It’s just tragic all the way around.

 

[Cider]

You’re right it’s not against the law but how would you like some police wanna be
vigilante following you around. If he has followed the advice of the 911 operator
(who can’t give advice but can suggest "we don’t need you to follow him) and that of the neighborhood watch protocol and called the police and left it at that, stayed in his car,
he’d never have been assaulted.

It’s just tragic all the way around.

So now people that volunteer as neighborhood watch are apparently " police wanna be vigilantes"?

 

[MaryT777]

I only saw a bit of the cross this morning. She is 19 now (I thought she was 16 when the shooting happened?) Parts of her story kept changing. And apparently Trayvon’s mother was present during her questioning by police, which taints her credability (according to the trial lawyers who were tweeting along with the video)

So far from the little bit I’ve had time to read, it looks like the prosecution is doing a horrible job. There are jokes that the prosecution is going to ask for the judge to order their witness to stick to the prescribed storyline, because they are helping Zimmerman.

One witness actually testified that she heard three gun shots (must have been an echo) and two of the “eye witnesses” admitted that they formed their opinions of what happened after seeing the photoshopped pic of Trayvon when he was like 12.

The Prosecution is doing a horrible job?
Really?
Did you see the defense opening statements with as “knock knock joke” ?
Knock Knock
Who’s there
It was disgusting.

 

[MaryT777]

If by the slim chance Zimmerman is found guilty many legal experts say he can claim ineffective council by the “knock knock” joke alone. It was truly beyond disgusting.
Even the legal defense attorney experts couldn’t believe it.

 

[masondoggy]

The Prosecution is doing a horrible job?
Really?
Did you see the defense opening statements with as “knock knock joke” ?
Knock Knock
Who’s there
It was disgusting.

I agree it’s disgusting but I would certainly hope a jury wouldn’t hold it against the defendant.

 

[Dawnia]

The Prosecution is doing a horrible job?
Really?
Did you see the defense opening statements with as “knock knock joke” ?
Knock Knock
Who’s there
It was disgusting.

Like I said, I’ve only seen a little bit of the coverage so far. I heard about he joke, but haven’t had time to go back and watch yesterday’s testimony.

I’m not on the jury, so my opinion isn’t of much consequence.

 

[MaryT777]

So now people that volunteer as neighborhood watch are apparently " police wanna be vigilantes"?

No of course not. Hopefully most neighborhood watch volunteers would listen to the heed
of "don’t follow someone " “call 911” and heed that training advice. He didn’t.

We had a great neighborhood watch but no one carried a weapon and no one followed persons it was pretty much traffic issues and parking issues and beyond that the police were explicitly clear they were to be called. Civilians are trained to do police work, follow people etc.

The Martin family already won a settlement in civic court for that issue.

 

[MaryT777]

I agree it’s disgusting but I would certainly hope a jury wouldn’t hold it against the defendant.

Hopefully not but if they do they can appeal it but that’s not fair to Zimmerman at all either.

It’s a horrifying tragedy.

 

[Lormar]

Only white people are racist.

I am sick of the double standard, and the two sets of rule books. One for whites, and one for everyone else.

 

[SwizzleStick]

The Prosecution is doing a horrible job?
Really?
Did you see the defense opening statements with as “knock knock joke” ?
Knock Knock
Who’s there
It was disgusting.

I agree that that was awful. It made me cringe.

 

[Cider]

The Martin family already won a settlement in civic court for that issue.

BTW, they didn’t WIN

Oh that’s right they sued the HOA and to save the community residents, which pay for the HOA, the cost of litigation the HOA paid out a settlement in which they admitted no wrong doing and the Martins agreed to drop their wrongful death claim.

Yes, that is really significant to the case. Not.

 

[SwizzleStick]

No of course not. Hopefully most neighborhood watch volunteers would listen to the heed
of "don’t follow someone " “call 911” and heed that training advice. He didn’t…

He says he did. He said he was going back to his truck when Martin jumped him. Factual? I don’t know. But, the defense went through a pretty lengthy presentation with map and timeline in support of that idea. Don’t know how convincing it was to the jury, but that is what was presented.

 

[ringil]

Probably. I know if I had to appear in court on the witness stand, I would dress in my best appropriate attire for the occasion.

So would I.

I am giving no opinion on this trial as that’s not how I will spend my time on CAF but regarding appearance- I hate to see kids dressed casually when they go to court- or adults dressed casually for that matter.

If you don’t dress up at court when would you dress up I have to ask.

 

[estesbob]

So would I.

I am giving no opinion on this trial as that’s not how I will spend my time on CAF but regarding appearance- I hate to see kids dressed casually when they go to court- or adults dressed casually for that matter.

If you don’t dress up at court when would you dress up I have to ask.

Agreed. I have one good suit. I call it my marrying, burying and testifying suit. if I have to testify more than one day I change the shirt and tie.