Open Thread on Zimmerman Trial

[LisaA]

I have several friends who are paramedics/firefighters, they all have stories of folks who were hurt very badly insisting on not going to the hospital. Athletes often injure themselves and yet play through the pain. It is very hard to predict what someone may do-- particularly with a blow to the head after a huge adrenalin dump. Note, Zimmerman was very cooperative with the police and may have been more intent/anxious about talking through his experience than with his physical condition. He even underwent two lie detector test by voice stress analyzer (an aside IHMO, never agree to take a lie detector test if your liberty is at stake. They are notoriously inaccurate and the operator normally decides how you’ll do prior to starting. antipolygraph.org).

But I do think the jury will consider Z’s declining to go to the hospital in making their decision.

Absolutely true. I have a lot of family in law enforcement and they will try to convince people to go to the hospital ‘just to be checked’ and they refuse, particularly the men. It is still part of our culture that men suck it up and especially someone like Zimmerman. You cannot force a conscious adult to see a doctor. While the idea might influence the jury, the defense can explain it quite easily. We all know people who won’t go to the hospital unless they are in a coma.

As to the following side of things, it sounds based on the testimony that he was following Martin, lost sight of him, called and responded something about the punks get away. People who don’t support Zimmerman presume he continued to follow Martin but other testimony is he lost sight of Martin and then Martin confronted him. That follows the testimony…Martin seems to think he’s being followed. Maybe he was. But at the time of the confrontation the more credible story is that Zimmerman lost sight of Martin, was looking around–for the address? for Martin? we don’t know. But it sounds like Martin perceived a threat, whether or not justified and responded belligerently. Again there are many elements but nothing makes me think he intended to kill Martin or even had a disregard for Martin’s life…until he believed his own was in danger.

Lisa

 

[MaryT777]

Absolutely true. I have a lot of family in law enforcement and they will try to convince people to go to the hospital ‘just to be checked’ and they refuse, particularly the men. It is still part of our culture that men suck it up and especially someone like Zimmerman. You cannot force a conscious adult to see a doctor. While the idea might influence the jury, the defense can explain it quite easily. We all know people who won’t go to the hospital unless they are in a coma.

As to the following side of things, it sounds based on the testimony that he was following Martin, lost sight of him, called and responded something about the punks get away. People who don’t support Zimmerman presume he continued to follow Martin but other testimony is he lost sight of Martin and then Martin confronted him. That follows the testimony…Martin seems to think he’s being followed. Maybe he was. But at the time of the confrontation the more credible story is that Zimmerman lost sight of Martin, was looking around–for the address? for Martin? we don’t know. But it sounds like Martin perceived a threat, whether or not justified and responded belligerently. Again there are many elements but nothing makes me think he intended to kill Martin or even had a disregard for Martin’s life…until he believed his own was in danger.

Lisa

A lesson to be learned for Neighborhood Watch programs. It was not meant to be
what Zimmerman was doing. Following people around because these *******s get away, etc etc etc. That’s for the police to handle.

Hopefully with this case no matter the outcome we will all be wiser. If you are being followed I guess you should just go home and ignore it? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Dawnia]

You need to check out the Serino interview. Zimmerman has changed his story about following Martin or going to get an address.
Or check out the exclusive interview with Fox News.

None of his versions will matter if he never takes the stand, which is the current rumor going around.

But, regardless, it is very common for people to change the details of their story with retelling. Memories are extremely unreliable. They have done a marvelous job of sending innocent people to jail and some to death row.

 

[SamH]

A lesson to be learned for Neighborhood Watch programs. It was not meant to be
what Zimmerman was doing. Following people around because these *******s get away, etc etc etc. That’s for the police to handle.

Hopefully with this case no matter the outcome we will all be wiser. If you are being followed I guess you should just go home and ignore it? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

If they don’t watch what is going on in the neighborhood - why do they call it a neighborhood watch?

 

[MaryT777]

Absolutely true. I have a lot of family in law enforcement and they will try to convince people to go to the hospital ‘just to be checked’ and they refuse, particularly the men. It is still part of our culture that men suck it up and especially someone like Zimmerman. You cannot force a conscious adult to see a doctor. While the idea might influence the jury, the defense can explain it quite easily. We all know people who won’t go to the hospital unless they are in a coma.

As to the following side of things, it sounds based on the testimony that he was following Martin, lost sight of him, called and responded something about the punks get away. People who don’t support Zimmerman presume he continued to follow Martin but other testimony is he lost sight of Martin and then Martin confronted him. That follows the testimony…Martin seems to think he’s being followed. Maybe he was. But at the time of the confrontation the more credible story is that Zimmerman lost sight of Martin, was looking around–for the address? for Martin? we don’t know. But it sounds like Martin perceived a threat, whether or not justified and responded belligerently. Again there are many elements but nothing makes me think he intended to kill Martin or even had a disregard for Martin’s life…until he believed his own was in danger.

Lisa

Lisa,
Since you have a lot of family in law enforcement what happens when an officer kills someone in self defense? Do they receive any counseling?
Mary.

 

[MaryT777]

If they don’t watch what is going on in the neighborhood - why do they call it a neighborhood watch?

Because it’s neighborhood “watch”
Thus call the police if what you are “watching” is a problem.
Zimmerman was not trained as a police officer.

 

[Dawnia]

A lesson to be learned for Neighborhood Watch programs. It was not meant to be
what Zimmerman was doing. Following people around because these *******s get away, etc etc etc. That’s for the police to handle.

Hopefully with this case no matter the outcome we will all be wiser. If you are being followed I guess you should just go home and ignore it? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Is calling the cops on some one following you too much work.?

 

[MaryT777]

Is calling the cops on some one following you too much work.?

No, it’s a much better plan lest you end up dead.

 

[MaryT777]

Is calling the cops on some one following you too much work.?

Can you imagine that conversation?
Someone is following me…
911 Dispatcher ok
I have skittles and a soda.

911 Dispatcher: Do you know why they are following you?

Yes I am walking in the rain.

 

[kelvinf]

None of his versions will matter if he never takes the stand, which is the current rumor going around.

But, regardless, it is very common for people to change the details of their story with retelling. Memories are extremely unreliable. They have done a marvelous job of sending innocent people to jail and some to death row.

I agree with you. We are all humans and know that we can’t narrate the same situation at a different point in time in exactly the same manner.

Unfortunately, the prosecution and defense usually seek exactly this.

 

[kelvinf]

If they don’t watch what is going on in the neighborhood - why do they call it a neighborhood watch?

But he wasn’t on duty that night. He was armed.

 

[Dawnia]

Can you imagine that conversation?
Someone is following me…
911 Dispatcher ok
I have skittles and a soda.

911 Dispatcher: Do you know why they are following you?

Yes I am walking in the rain.

Telepathy…I’m impressed.

 

[kelvinf]

Can you imagine that conversation?
Someone is following me…
911 Dispatcher ok
I have skittles and a soda.

911 Dispatcher: Do you know why they are following you?

Yes I am walking in the rain.

Does anybody else know why Trayvon Martin was suspicious? Cos Zimmerman really stressed this rain issue.

 

[MaryT777]

Telepathy…I’m impressed.

Dawnia,
Was it not you who said "is it too much trouble or work " or something like that if you are being followed to call…

I find it bizarre people following people around in the neighborhood. How strange.

 

[MaryT777]

Does anybody else know why Trayvon Martin was suspicious? Cos Zimmerman really stressed this rain issue.

Yes he was walking “too slowly” in the rain. That’s what he first reported.
He was walking in the rain slow.

Better quicken it up if you’re ever in the rain with skittles and an iced tea.

 

[MaryT777]

But he wasn’t on duty that night. He was armed.

Is it common practice for neighborhood watch persons to be armed? Do they state in the Neighborhood Watch Program that’s a good plan to be armed just in case…?

 

[Vanny]

First, to clarify- Zimmerman was on the non-emergency line not 911 on his initial call. He did not classify it as an emergency, simply the report of a suspicious person.

Second, the dispatcher did not ask him to stay in his car. According to the dispatcher’s testimony, what he did do, was ask a series of questions. One question was about which way the suspicious person was heading-- Zimmerman chose to get out of the car to try and provide that information. When the dispatcher realized that Zimmerman was out of his car, he asked if he was following the person. When Zimmerman said yes, the dispatcher said ‘we don’t need you to do that’. Zimmerman said ok (he stated he did stop following at that time. But did he really? I don’t know and dispatcher doesn’t either. However the girl on the phone stated Martin said he’d lost Zimmerman.) Dispatcher testified that Z said ’ they always get away’ he and Z discuss where police will meet Z. Z’s statement is he headed back to his truck to meet the police, and trying to determine street/address as he headed there. The dispatcher ends the call because he believes the incident is over, i.e. devolved to police follow-up vicing any more real-time info from Z.

Now, the prosecution’s challenge is to provide evidence that contradicts Z’s story.

Please recall, that the NW watch was started in response to a series of burglaries. The SPD NW coordinator testified these even included hot prowls- one of which was a woman home with a baby. Would the neighborhood be better off without a NW, without folks looking out for one another?

No I have no problem with a NW and I was aware that the condo complex had had lots of break-ins, and burglaries prior to this event. I don’t have a problem with Zimmerman reporting Martin as a suspicious person even though it tragically turned out he had a reason to be in the complex walking through as his Dad’s fiancé had a condo there. I guess we’ll never know exactly what happened as there were really no good witnesses who saw the WHOLE thing, and only Martin and Zimmerman know exactly what happened and one is dead. I do have trouble believing that Trayvon doubled back and attacked Zimmerman after Zimmerman backed off under the circumstances, but as I said, we’ll never know. I don’t think Zimmerman intended to kill Martin, and probably did think his life was in danger. But I do believe that had he not continued to follow Martin, things would have been a lot different.
I do believe 2nd degree murder is too harsh a charge,so I think he’ll be aquitted, and I also think the media has done a horrendous job with this whole thing.

 

[MaryT777]

I agree with you. We are all humans and know that we can’t narrate the same situation at a different point in time in exactly the same manner.

Unfortunately, the prosecution and defense usually seek exactly this.

Exactly Kelvinf,
You are the voice of reason on this thread.
Somebody has to be that!
Mary,

 

[vz71]

Someone who was being beaten so badly that he felt like his head was going to explode wouldn’t have refused to go to a doctor and do an X-ray.

And you know what someone will decide to do?

Can you provide lottery numbers too? We could all use the income.

 

[vz71]

I think it’s obvious she meant on the scene. Or how many people were there for you?

Yes, on the scene. I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear.
Two people were on the scene and one is now dead.

But the trial has another witness to the beating. He provided testimony last week.