Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

[mtbender]

It all happened because he was black and wearing a hoodie.

I guess it is sometimes easier to ignore logical conclusions based on evidence and speculation without regard to facts. For discussions sake it would be nice if you could point to fact or evidence to support you assertions…

 

[MaryT777]

That’s part of the reason there was probable cause, that’s not why he died. He died because he confronted a man with a gun who was also a agent of the law, sad as that was.

But you agree the image is an issue? As it darn well should be with all parents.

Not all people are suspected by the police for wearing hoodies, that’s just as ridiculous as only blacks wearing a hoodie could be a suspect.

Image whether it agrees with a person or not is no reason to kill someone.
Many notorious criminals had an image that was perfectly “normal” Ted Bundy comes to mind.

I don’t have a big issue with hoodies myself

 

[BroomWagon]

The Detective Serino furthermore states Zimmerman’s use of foul language in describing those who get away as reflecting “ill-intent” on the behalf of George Zimmerman, not Trayvon Martin.

 

[SamH]

TM was not a robber

How do you know that?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Image whether it agrees with a person or not is no reason to kill someone.
Many notorious criminals had an image that was perfectly “normal” Ted Bundy comes to mind.

I don’t have a big issue with hoodies myself

You argument is circular now, and sense I’m on the way out, peace.

 

[adrift]

It all happened because he was black and wearing a hoodie.

Proof not your flappping keyboard? You do know that it is a sin to bear false witness? With the above statement, I guess the answer is no but it is.

 

[mtbender]

The Detective Serino furthermore states Zimmerman’s use of foul language in describing those who get away as reflecting “ill-intent” on the behalf of George Zimmerman, not Trayvon Martin.

The same detective that said he found GZs self defense claim believable…

 

[Robert_Sock]

I guess it is sometimes easier to ignore logical conclusions based on evidence and speculation without regard to facts. For discussions sake it would be nice if you could point to fact or evidence to support you assertions…

Again, where are your facts that disprove my assertions? After all, you’re the one questioning them.

 

[adrift]

Well, HOA **had to **hand out a large amount of money in regards to this.

:banghead:

 

[mtbender]

Again, where are your facts that disprove my assertions? After all, you’re the one questioning them.

I am not the one making the claim… one you seem to be unable to support – or at least unwilling to.

 

[maryjk]

Thank you for providing George Zimmerman’s narrative NOT fact.

No, the film from the store shows that Martin had his hood up. I could be wrong about it raining in the store though.

And we have a couple of choices about how Zimmerman was injured. I chose the most likely one. I mean, I guess, he could have beat himself up, belying the statements that others made to the police.

Again, Zimmerman’s narrative, not fact.

No, he was caught with stolen goods. He wasn’t charged because they had already had enough charges brought against minorities.

And again, we have a couple of choices about how Zimmerman was injured. I chose the most likely one. I mean, I guess, he could have beat himself up, belying the statements that others made to the police.

I always laugh when someone states George Zimmerman’s unsworn testimony as fact.

Why, because it is easier to believe that Zimmerman beat himself up, than to believe that a young man that was known for having stolen goods, doing drugs and taking pictures of weapons, also attacked someone?? Even after his own girl friend said that is what he did??

I don’t laugh at the fact, George Zimmerman killed someone the police say was not doing any wrong in the apartment complex.

The police weren’t there, they don’t know.

 

[SwizzleStick]

You argument is circular now, and sense I’m on the way out, peace.

Yep. It has been for some time, which is why I bowed out to just reading and not really contributing anymore. I see no point in refuting the same issues again and again.

“… They got up on their high horse, whooped and hollered, rode around in circles,
and ended right back where they’d started.” - John Kerry

“…Until that is done, we are on an aimless course that runs in circles and goes nowhere.” - John Wooden

“We walk in circles, so limited by our own anxieties that we can no longer distinguish between true and false, between the gangster’s whim and the purest ideal” - Ingrid Bergman

“No wonder I’m dizzy, the world keeps spinning in circles” – Unknown

“Blessed are they who Go Around in Circles, for they Shall be Known as Wheels” – Unknown

“Real obstacles don’t take you in circles. They can be overcome……” – Barbara Sher

“Going in Circles

seems like I’ve been here before
is it deja vu or really something more
when I feel I have left my comfort zone
here I am again in the looking glass

is it me or just a figment of mind
searching everywhere trying to find
the road that leads me from the garden path
nothing changes only time will pass”
– David Nelson

 

[BroomWagon]

:banghead:

Do you know something that refutes this below?

The very tragic Martin case leads to interesting issues for HOAs, but they’re not new," says Elizabeth White, a shareholder and head of the community associations practice at the law firm of LeClairRyan in Williamsburg, Va. “We’ve seen instances like this before, where neighborhood watch individuals have crossed the line and taken on the role of law enforcement. HOAs have been dealing for years with neighborhood watch issues and how to structure neighborhood watches.”

An HOA isn’t liable for damages simply because a crime happens on its grounds. Where The Retreat may have gone wrong is in allegedly holding Zimmerman out as a resource for residents to contact regarding crime. The evidence, if numerous reports are true, is a newsletter sent to The Retreat’s residents the same month Zimmerman fatally shot Martin. Though no media outlets have produced a copy of the newsletter, many report that under the heading “Neighborhood Watch,” the HOA recommended that residents who become crime victims first call police and then contact "our Captain, George Zimmerman…so he can be aware and help address the issue with other residents."

The HOA’s apparent endorsement of Zimmerman’s actions may be its downfall. “What you have here is possibly a blurring of the lines of what really should be a function of the police department,” says Jed L. Frankel, a partner at Eisinger, Brown, Lewis, Frankel & Chaiet PA in Hollywood, Fla., who advises community associations. “If the association told people to report things to Zimmerman, that’s a much different function than the crimewatch programs we have here, whose role is to call the police and report suspicious activity. We even have citizen police activities, where people go out in police cars. But they don’t go chasing after suspicious people. That’s a police function.”

hoaleader.com/public/What-Should-HOAs-Learn-from-the-Trayvon-Martin-Tragedy.cfm

 

[adrift]

I don’t laugh at the fact, George Zimmerman killed someone the police say was not doing any wrong in the apartment complex.

The police also said he acted in self-defense.

It is a fact that Zimmerman had a broken nose and wounds to the back of his head. I don’t know how you determine fact but it has been established as fact that Zimmerman was attacked for you to say it is not fact is indeed a fact. Yes it is Zimmerman’s version which is supported by the evidence not just his word.

 

[MaryT777]

Well again, do we want to empower our police more and reduce our own rights with Obama, or take a serious look here?

Yes they do use this term very loosely. Listen, in NYC they will jack you up just for being in a high crime area and looking out of place. And with nothing on your head. You can catch a beating down there just for being in the wrong neighborhood.

I think we need to retain our rights and demand all of them; we need to reject Obama. I personally can’t wait until he is out of office.

 

[MaryT777]

Do you know something that refutes this below?

Yep, it was the perceived endorsement of Z that led to the HOA settling the wrongful death suit.

 

[adrift]

Do you know something that refutes this below?

What you posted did not show that the “had” to settle. I already posted this

“It is understood and agreed that the payment made herein is not to be construed as an admission of any liability by or on behalf of the releasing parties; but instead the monies being paid hereunder is consideration for avoiding litigation, the uncertainties stemming from litigation as well as to protect and secure the good name and good will of the released parties,” the settlement said.

Yep, it was the perceived endorsement of Z that led to the HOA settling the wrongful death suit.

Nope it is the nature of the court system.

 

[MaryT777]

No, the film from the store shows that Martin had his hood up. I could be wrong about it raining in the store though.

And we have a couple of choices about how Zimmerman was injured. I chose the most likely one. I mean, I guess, he could have beat himself up, belying the statements that others made to the police. No, he was caught with stolen goods. He wasn’t charged because they had already had enough charges brought against minorities.

And again, we have a couple of choices about how Zimmerman was injured. I chose the most likely one. I mean, I guess, he could have beat himself up, belying the statements that others made to the police. Why, because it is easier to believe that Zimmerman beat himself up, than to believe that a young man that was known for having stolen goods, doing drugs and taking pictures of weapons, also attacked someone?? Even after his own girl friend said that is what he did??
The police weren’t there, they don’t know.

If you choose to believe Zimmerman is credible then he told the police what happened and
a police officer did indeed state TM was doing nothing wrong. If you don’t believe Z is credible then his whole defense crumbles for it was mainly made up of his police statements and conflicting eye witnesses as well as a ME that seemed unduly confused.

 

[MaryT777]

What you posted did not show that the “had” to settle. I already posted this

Nope it is the nature of the court system.

Actually the HOA stated they had no choice but to settle given the irresponsible actions of the HOA who probably did not know any better.

Not all cases are settled because of the nature of the court system. This was settled because of the Negligence of the HOA. Zimmerman was no expert to be endorsed as we can plainly see now.

 

[maryjk]

If you choose to believe Zimmerman is credible then he told the police what happened and
a police officer did indeed state TM was doing nothing wrong. If you don’t believe Z is credible then his whole defense crumbles for it was mainly made up of his police statements and conflicting eye witnesses as well as a ME that seemed unduly confused.

So how do you think Zimmerman received a broken nose? How he hurt his head? Do you think he did it to himself? Someone else happened by and did it?

What was the conflicting testimony? Do you include the person that thought the “bigger” person was on top, when that person thought that a 12 year old boy had been shot?