Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

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Saints_Alive said:
A block watch volunteer call police on a suspicious looking person and then confronts the person ?

If that is what happened then Zimmerman created a problem that didn’t exist.
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Probably so, but then again, that isn’t what happened. Martin confronted Zimmerman, not vice-versa.
MaryT777 said:
He shouldn’t have been following him in the first place; it’s police that should be detaining and following and apprehending criminals. I don’t understand why you’d follow some
up to no good, punk of a suspect on drugs.

If we can all do that we could save a lot of money by doing away with a police force.
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Obviously, he followed him *because *he thought he was up to no good. It is simply part of the instincts of a man to keep an eye on potentially dangerous people in order to protect others. It’s the same impulse that drives men to put themselves in harm’s way in disproportionate numbers every day in certain lines of work. You may not understand it but your lack of understanding isn’t anyone’s problem but yours.

People have spent a lot of time saying “Zimmernan should’ve done this,” “Zimmerman shouldn’t have done that,” the perfect hindsight of leftist armchair jurists. But all of these are prudential evaluations. Maybe it was a bad idea in the abstract for Zimmerman to follow Martin. Maybe it was a bad idea in the abstract for him to be carrying a concealed firearm. Maybe it was a bad idea not to back down or walk away when Martin confronted him. But none of these things are illegal, none of them are immoral, and in nothing but deranged ghetto pseudo-morality do any of them merit a savage beating.

The irony of this is that people keep complaining about Zimmerman “profiling” Martin (“profiling” being one of the few sins the leftist counterfeit of religion still recognizes) when evidently Zimmerman’s profile was right – Martin really was a punk, as evidenced by what he actually did that night, and what’s come about him since then! In fact to the extent GZ erred it’s that he didn’t treat Martin was dangerous enough, a lesson he learned the hard way when his head was getting dashed against the pavement.
 
LisaA said:
Please get some facts. SYG had nothing to do with this case. The evidence presented did not indicate Zimmerman was stalking Martin. The evidence did not indicate that Zimmerman instigated the fight. In fact the evidence indicated that Martin escalated the encounter by confronting Zimmerman.

Lisa
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Fact is the 911 operator told Zimmerman to stand down and stop following and such instruction was flagrantly disregarded.
 
KrazyKat said:
My opinion is the only one that counts to me…and your opinion is the only one that matters to you… Amen
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Yes, but generally, when speaking publically to other adults, one doesn’t just make out opinions that aren’t rooted in some sort of reality. It is simple courtesy. By your definition, every minority killing in Chicago this weekend was a hate crime, because a black person died.

Posters can say anything they want, within the rules of the forums. A poster could say “I believe Joe Biden is really a post-operative transsexual,” despite there being zero evidence of this being true.

A poster can claim nasty, untrue things about people all day, but lacking any evidence, you simply become guilty of the sin of calumny yourself, and it renders other opinions by the poster as less worthy of serious consideration.

Honestly, this is the sort of thing people like Harry Reid are fond of. Throw out an accusation, and even if you never revisit it, it will linger in people’s minds and tarnish the person about whom it was said. That is unfair and wrong.
 
LisaA said:
Please get some facts. SYG had nothing to do with this case. The evidence presented did not indicate Zimmerman was stalking Martin. The evidence did not indicate that Zimmerman instigated the fight. In fact the evidence indicated that Martin escalated the encounter by confronting Zimmerman.

Lisa
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It just struck me you were acronyming for stand your ground. I wasn’t saying it had anything to do, just concerned politicians will latch two together, similar to the post Newtown NY gun law.

Apologies if I misinterpreted the whole of your post.
 
Justice was NOT served!! I cannot believe that so many people who are supposed to be Catholics that are supposed to respect and uplift life from conception to natural death don’t see the huge problem with this young man being shot in the street like a dog.
 
KrazyKat said:
My opinion is the only one that counts to me…and your opinion is the only one that matters to you… Amen
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The opinion of the jury is the only one that matters objectively.

I think President Obama had it right when he told us that we should respect the decision of the jury. Now if only the Justice Department will listen to the boss, we will see if he was sincere or just flapping his lips.
 
Miss_Felicity said:
Justice was NOT served!! I cannot believe that so many people who are supposed to be Catholics that are supposed to respect and uplift life from conception to natural death don’t see the huge problem with this young man being shot in the street like a dog.
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Respecting the verdict, even believing that justice was not served, does not imply that there is no respect for life. Every year people get found “not guilty” of murder. Should we march more for this one case than we do others? Is the life of others less trivial because they are not publicized?

We have two choices as a society. We can accept that a lot of innocent people are going to go to prison for crimes they do not commit, or that a lot of guilty people will get to walk on crimes they did commit.
 
Miss_Felicity said:
Justice was NOT served!! I cannot believe that so many people who are supposed to be Catholics that are supposed to respect and uplift life from conception to natural death don’t see the huge problem with this young man being shot in the street like a dog.
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He was not shot like a dog. He was beating a man’s head into the ground which easily causes death.
 
fix said:
He was not shot like a dog. He was beating a man’s head into the ground which easily causes death.
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Oh you mean in self defense for the man that profiled and followed him even after the police told him not to. Oh yeah thats because the neighborhood watch is supposed to WATCH, GZ called the police and they insisted they did not need him to follow or pursue TM and he did it anyway. GZ took the law into his own hands, if TM was supposed to be so suspicious , So threatening and menacing THAT is why there is a trained and paid police force you DO NOT take the law into your own hands and you would not be in a situation where anybody would get beaten and there would have been NO loss of life.
 
MaryT777 said:
The defense never even said Trayvon was violent and foolish. That was simply an opinion not a fact.
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Perhaps the was no need to say that, as no one would claim that pounding GZ’s head into the pavement was a calm and wise act.
 
Miss_Felicity said:
Justice was NOT served!! I cannot believe that so many people who are supposed to be Catholics that are supposed to respect and uplift life from conception to natural death don’t see the huge problem with this young man being shot in the street like a dog.
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Divine Natural Law, which all Catholics support, allows a person to defend oneself against having one’s head pounded into the pavement repeatedly.

Why would any Catholic object to the teachings of Pope John Paul II
Moreover, “legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another’s life, the common good of the family or of the State”. Unfortunately it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose action brought it about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason
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. -Evangelicum Vitae
 
Some of the testimony of this trial and the incident in question is based upon what George Zimmerman has said and since he was the one on trial, one must always be mindful of that. However thanks to forensics there are somethings that can be independently confirmed. Namely that Trayvon Martin did at the end physically attack George Zimmerman and by the fact that Zimmerman was getting his head pounded into the concrete would represent a serious and life threatening injury.

For those who disagree with the verdict, how do you explain this very salient aspect of it all? It was doing this that caused George Zimmerman to discharge his weapon.
 
Miss_Felicity said:
Oh you mean in self defense for the man that profiled and followed him even after the police told him not to. Oh yeah thats because the neighborhood watch is supposed to WATCH, GZ called the police and they insisted they did not need him to follow or pursue TM and he did it anyway. GZ took the law into his own hands, if TM was supposed to be so suspicious , So threatening and menacing THAT is why there is a trained and paid police force you DO NOT take the law into your own hands and you would not be in a situation where anybody would get beaten and there would have been NO loss of life.
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Go back and read the other threads on this. Or better yet educate yourself on the evidence presented at the trial. Everything you’ve said has already been addressed numerous times before.
 
LisaA said:
He gets out of the car and looks around. He says that Martin had disappeared. Yes he could indicate the general direction Martin had gone but that isn’t the same as following him.
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Once again, if its not the same as following him then why does Zimmerman say he is following him?
The rest of the story is that they broke visual contact during the phone call. Zimmerman didnt’ hang up and run after Martin. He continued to talk at some length about addresses and phone numbers and making arrangements to meet the police. He did not run after Martin, he did not chase him, follow him or instigate a confrontation.
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We don’t know what happened after Zimmerman hung up.
The series of events as detailed by multiple witnesses was that Zimmerman lost sight of Martin. Martin later surprised him and confronted Zimmerman.
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Says who? Zimmerman?
Zimmerman states Martin hit him, knocked him down, continued to punch him and slam his head against the pavement. The eyewitness testimony and Zimmerman’s appearance along with his statements all support that Martin was the aggressor. If Zimmerman pulled his gun and told Martin to stop, he wouldn’t have been all beaten up would he?
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Eyewitness reports were that they saw a fight and some say Martin was on top. That doesn’t indicate who began the altercation.
Where do you think Zimmerman went wrong? In initially observing Martin and reporting him?
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Clearly Zimmerman was way off in reporting he thought Martin was on drugs, he wasn’t. Zimmerman followed Martin for a brief period of time and probably never should have, Zimmerman also never should have gotten out of his car.
Or do you not believe all of the testimony that indicates Martin confronted and attacked Zimmerman?
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What testimony? No one saw who started the fight.
I just don’t get your point other than you do not agree with the verdict. Why not?
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I agree with the verdict but that doesn’t mean I agree with anything Zimmerman did. There’s no contradiction in saying Zimmerman did many things wrong that evening but didn’t commit murder.
 
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