Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

[Cider]

Uh no. OJ was a civil trial for wrongful death that the families filed and win after his criminal trial. This is the federal govt discuss charging GZ with federal criminal charges. Of course no one is discussing how this is a blatant violation of double jeopardy .

And the same DOJ which coordinated the protests will be COMPLETELY IMPARTIAL in making the decision to prosecute. You simply can’t claim to be American and support such an abomination of justice.

The discussion of the DOJ is on civil rights violations. That means there is no double jeopardy.

Of course there is no legitimate reason to charge Zimmerman with a civil rights violation. Last I checked it wasn’t a civil right to pound someones head into concrete.

 

[Brendan]

Here is more on the DoJ investigation

foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/15/as-justice-pursues-civil-rights-case-against-zimmerman-fbi-documents-show-no/

 

[fatima19172017]

Once again, if its not the same as following him then why does Zimmerman say he is following him?

We don’t know what happened after Zimmerman hung up.

Says who? Zimmerman?

Eyewitness reports were that they saw a fight and some say Martin was on top. That doesn’t indicate who began the altercation.

Clearly Zimmerman was way off in reporting he thought Martin was on drugs, he wasn’t. Zimmerman followed Martin for a brief period of time and probably never should have, Zimmerman also never should have gotten out of his car.

What testimony? No one saw who started the fight.

I agree with the verdict but that doesn’t mean I agree with anything Zimmerman did. There’s no contradiction in saying Zimmerman did many things wrong that evening but didn’t commit murder.

I apologise Father for interjecting myself into your exchange with Lisa but I would like to ask something. When GZ called 911, did he do it from his cell or from a landline at the clubhouse? I ask this because if it was a landline then it would prevent him from “following” TM around and if he had a cell then why would he go to the clubhouse to make the call? Or am I missing something here?

 

[MaryT777]

In a shocking turn of events, Obama actually said something I agree with. bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23309534 urging “calm reflection” after the trial, and saying that “We are a nation of laws and the jury has reached a decision”

First time I agreed with Obama on anything as well.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Obviously, he followed him *because *he thought he was up to no good. It is simply part of the instincts of a man to keep an eye on potentially dangerous people in order to protect others. It’s the same impulse that drives men to put themselves in harm’s way in disproportionate numbers every day in certain lines of work. You may not understand it but your lack of understanding isn’t anyone’s problem but yours.

People have spent a lot of time saying “Zimmernan should’ve done this,” “Zimmerman shouldn’t have done that,” the perfect hindsight of leftist armchair jurists.

I think the above comments are uncalled for. As someone who lives in a fairly dangerous neighborhood that has a “watch” I do have my own opinions on Zimmerman’s actions. That doesn’t make me an “armchair leftest” nor does it mean that I somehow lack understanding (anymore so than anyone else on this board).

But all of these are prudential evaluations. Maybe it was a bad idea in the abstract for Zimmerman to follow Martin. Maybe it was a bad idea in the abstract for him to be carrying a concealed firearm. Maybe it was a bad idea not to back down or walk away when Martin confronted him. But none of these things are illegal, none of them are immoral, and in nothing but deranged ghetto pseudo-morality do any of them merit a savage beating.

We don’t know what began the altercation. My first month in the parish I’m currently in, 4 people were murdered in my neighborhood. Illegal guns abound. If I saw a suspicious person I would immediately contact the police, but would never follow them for any length of time nor get out of my car at any point. That’s essentially the advice of the police.

 

[Dawnia]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p280x280/17583_553000831421839_1807858999_n.png

And CAF members

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I apologise Father for interjecting myself into your exchange with Lisa but I would like to ask something. When GZ called 911, did he do it from his cell or from a landline at the clubhouse? I ask this because if it was a landline then it would prevent him from “following” TM around and if he had a cell then why would he go to the clubhouse to make the call? Or am I missing something here?

Zimmerman was on his cell in his car, then got out of his car and then was told not to follow the suspect and he said ok. He wasn’t at the clubhouse because the directions he gave stated that his truck was parked past the clubhouse.

 

[pnewton]

I think arguing the facts of the case is rather pointless at this time. I have kept quiet on this because I know the we will never be aware of the facts and we only know some of the evidence. Twelve people found him to be not guilty. At minimum, those protesting this verdict surely must acknowledge the possibility that this is self-defense. If they do not, then they are not thinking critically. The twelve people most in the know have ruled. Of course they might be mistaken, but this incident can not be as clear cut as a slogan.

Justice in this world is imperfect. Both George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin will have to answer to a higher judge for their actions that night.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I think arguing the facts of the case is rather pointless at this time. I have kept quiet on this because I know the we will never be aware of the facts and we only know some of the evidence. Twelve people found him to be not guilty.

Six people

 

[pnewton]

Six people

I stand… halved.

 

[MaryT777]

Perhaps the was no need to say that, as no one would claim that pounding GZ’s head into the pavement was a calm and wise act.

…perhaps TM felt his life was in danger from Z who was following him, profiled him as a suspect, was in a state of mind that “punks always get away…” actually felt some need to get out of his car and follow him more as if following someone in your car when you have a cell phone isn’t good enough. Now let’s scare the guy more by getting out of the car.

Obviously that’s plausible put speculation because TM can’t testify…

 

[SamH]

…perhaps TM felt his life was in danger from Z who was following him, profiled him as a suspect, was in a state of mind that “punks always get away…” actually felt some need to get out of his car and follow him more as if following someone in your car when you have a cell phone isn’t good enough. Now let’s scare the guy more by getting out of the car.

Obviously that’s plausible put speculation because TM can’t testify…

And this is supported by the fact that TM called the police to report… Oh wait…

 

[LisaA]

Probably so, but then again, that isn’t what happened. Martin confronted Zimmerman, not vice-versa.

Obviously, he followed him *because *he thought he was up to no good. It is simply part of the instincts of a man to keep an eye on potentially dangerous people in order to protect others. It’s the same impulse that drives men to put themselves in harm’s way in disproportionate numbers every day in certain lines of work. You may not understand it but your lack of understanding isn’t anyone’s problem but yours.

People have spent a lot of time saying “Zimmernan should’ve done this,” “Zimmerman shouldn’t have done that,” the perfect hindsight of leftist armchair jurists. But all of these are prudential evaluations. Maybe it was a bad idea in the abstract for Zimmerman to follow Martin. Maybe it was a bad idea in the abstract for him to be carrying a concealed firearm. Maybe it was a bad idea not to back down or walk away when Martin confronted him. But none of these things are illegal, none of them are immoral, and in nothing but deranged ghetto pseudo-morality do any of them merit a savage beating.

The irony of this is that people keep complaining about Zimmerman “profiling” Martin (“profiling” being one of the few sins the leftist counterfeit of religion still recognizes) when evidently Zimmerman’s profile was right – Martin really was a punk, as evidenced by what he actually did that night, and what’s come about him since then! In fact to the extent GZ erred it’s that he didn’t treat Martin was dangerous enough, a lesson he learned the hard way when his head was getting dashed against the pavement.

great post. Thank you!

Lisa

 

[Cider]

Here is more on the DoJ investigation

foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/15/as-justice-pursues-civil-rights-case-against-zimmerman-fbi-documents-show-no/

Jealous started the drive to pressure the DOJ to continue its probe by posting a petition Sunday morning on the website MoveOn.org that was addressed to Attorney General Eric Holder.

“The most fundamental of civil rights – the right to life – was violated the night George Zimmerman stalked and then took the life of Trayvon Martin,” Jealous wrote in the petition.

Wait, what? They are invoking the right to life? So how is their record with the abortion industry? Ya I thought so.

And what about Zimmerman’s right to life? Zimmerman wasn’t a physical threat to Martin until Martin attacked him.

 

[Dawnia]

The opinion of the jury is the only one that matters objectively.

I think President Obama had it right when he told us that we should respect the decision of the jury. Now if only the Justice Department will listen to the boss, we will see if he was sincere or just flapping his lips.

 

[SamH]

The discussion of the DOJ is on civil rights violations. That means there is no double jeopardy.

Of course there is no legitimate reason to charge Zimmerman with a civil rights violation. Last I checked it wasn’t a civil right to pound someones head into concrete.

Except the FBI has already investigated and found no case.

 

[garn9173]

Oh you mean in self defense for the man that profiled and followed him even after the police told him not to. Oh yeah thats because the neighborhood watch is supposed to WATCH, GZ called the police and they insisted they did not need him to follow or pursue TM and he did it anyway. GZ took the law into his own hands, if TM was supposed to be so suspicious , So threatening and menacing THAT is why there is a trained and paid police force you DO NOT take the law into your own hands and you would not be in a situation where anybody would get beaten and there would have been NO loss of life.

Now we know why local officals didn’t initally press charges because they KNEW there wasn’t enough evidence to file charges. The prosecution’s case was so weak that even their witness’ was HELPING the defense.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Now we know why local officals didn’t initally press charges because they KNEW there wasn’t enough evidence to file charges. The prosecution’s case was so weak that even their witness’ was HELPING the defense.

Agreed.

 

[LisaA]

Go back and read the other threads on this. Or better yet educate yourself on the evidence presented at the trial. Everything you’ve said has already been addressed numerous times before.

Indeed. Miss Felicity don’t jump in late in a thread, ignore what has been discussed at great length and posit a completely fabricated scenario if you want to be taken seriously.

Lisa

 

[Julian_Bashir]

Wait, what? They are invoking the right to life? So how is their record with the abortion industry? Ya I thought so.

And what about Zimmerman’s right to life? Zimmerman wasn’t a physical threat to Martin until Martin attacked him.

They won’t ever invoke the right to life argument. While the secular left loves playing the race card, they are in fact wedded to the abortion industry. Their marriage to the latter trumps even their obsession with the former, and as such, they would never sully their support for legalized baby-killing just to garner racist sympathy votes.