Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

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This is perfectly plausible given the evidence, but nobody seems interested in taking this into account.
The evidence allowed for multiple scenarios, and surely this is one of them. Yet the question remains, are we more willing to send innocent people to prison or let the guilty escape punishment? As we now live in a country that believe guilty must be proven beyond reasonable doubt, the jury ruled based on that criteria.
 
How does any of that change the fact a man was beating another man to death?
Well, I’m not quite sure that’s a “fact.” The defense doesn’t have to prove their version of events.

However, the original point was that the situation could have been avoided had Zimmerman not gotten out of his car. Zimmerman reported to police that a suspicious person, possibly on drugs, looked like he was up to no good. If you believe that about another person then getting out of your car to look for them is, imho, a foolish thing to do.
 
They won’t ever invoke the right to life argument. While the secular left loves playing the race card, they are in fact wedded to the abortion industry. Their marriage to the latter trumps even their obsession with the former, and as such, they would never sully their support for legalized baby-killing just to garner racist sympathy votes.
The point is they actually did invoke the right to life as THE fundamental civil right. Which is why I quoted it in my post. So I’m not sure why you are saying they won’t ever do it. They did.
 
But it could very well be possible that TM used physical force in pounding GZ’s head into the ground after GZ pulled his gun. This is perfectly plausible given the evidence, but nobody seems interested in taking this into account. This thread is so biased.

LOVE, not guns!
If it is perfectly plausible why didn’t the prosecution make that claim.Everybody who looked at all the evidence in this case said he was not guilty.From the initial police report to the Jury verdict they all said no crime was committed.I have a feeling that in many minds the mere fact he was carrying a gun makes him guilty.
 
post 414 you asserted that the defense said the Travyon was violent and foolish. I gave you a source. I was you since you said the defense said it than the jury must agreed because they found it self-defense.

Your welcome!😉
Trayvon Martin was not the one who was tried, that was George Zimmernan unless I have completely missed the news stories.

abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/zimmerman-verdict-lawyers-gun-now-19666524

I have looked all over but have not found this trial of Trayvon Martin you seem to be speaking about or the Jury saying anything other than George Zimmerman was NOT guilty of murder.

Please provide a link on Trayvon Martin being found guilty.
 
Of course it means double jeopardy is being enacted, but lawyers in black robes have concocted nonsensical explanations for how up means down, and left means right.

5th Amendment

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
You don’t get the fact that charging someone with a civil rights violation is a different charge than 2nd degree murder or manslaughter? Really?

Personally I don’t see any evidence of civil rights violations, the DOJ is grasping at straws. But LEGALLY they are not the same charges.

While I agree with your emotional point that DOJ just wants to get him on something, legally it’s not double jeopardy.
 
You don’t get the fact that charging someone with a civil rights violation is a different charge than 2nd degree murder or manslaughter? Really?

Personally I don’t see any evidence of civil rights violations, the DOJ is grasping at straws. But LEGALLY they are not the same charges.
Of COURSE it is a different charge. But the charge is for the same ACT. Or should we be okay with a govt that simply keeps bringing new charges for the same act against someone when they didn’t get a conviction on other charges? You could keep someone locked up awaiting trials for decades under this standard.
 
The evidence allowed for multiple scenarios, and surely this is one of them. Yet the question remains, are we more willing to send innocent people to prison or let the guilty escape punishment? As we now live in a country that believe guilty must be proven beyond reasonable doubt, the jury ruled based on that criteria.
OTOH, why are states willing to promote vigilantes by writing state laws that promote it? Again, let us go back to the days where carrying a concealed weapon is a felony.

LOVE, not guns!
 
he had drugs in his system,he was a drug user.
Yes, he smoked pot (as do millions of Americans). Perhaps I used a poor choice of words, perhaps I should have said Martin wasn’t “high.”

With the trace amounts in his system there is no way to say when he smoked it. It could have been 3 days prior. The trace amounts were also most likely to have no effect on him.

When someone says “this guy looks like he’s on drugs” it means behavior that would be caused by more than trace amounts of pot in someone’s system.
 
But it could very well be possible that TM used physical force in pounding GZ’s head into the ground after GZ pulled his gun.
Really? So after Zimmerman pulled his gun Martin threw him to the ground, straddled him and started punching him and only then did Zimmerman shoot him?

I think I know why no one has considered this a pausible chain of events.
 
Illinois has stopped using the death penalty out of a fear of executing innocent men but those men were convicted of murder if I understand correctly, so just because one can wave around the fact that a jury came to a certain decision does not mean it’s chiseled in stone.

I can sympathize with George Zimmerman and he is probably innocent but his basic demeanor as well, his run ins with the law per domestic violence 2 times and shoving a police officer, being treated for alcohol and other events really does point to questions as to whether one would want to be dealing with this individual carrying a gun.
 
If it is perfectly plausible why didn’t the prosecution make that claim.Everybody who looked at all the evidence in this case said he was not guilty.From the initial police report to the Jury verdict they all said no crime was committed.I have a feeling that in many minds the mere fact he was carrying a gun makes him guilty.
No, the fact that he was negligent in following TM after being told not to makes him guilty of manslaughter.
 
I would get out of the country while the getting is good if I were Zimmerman. Start a new life in a new country before the civil lawsuits and vigilantes get to him.
 
Trayvon Martin was not the one who was tried, that was George Zimmernan unless I have completely missed the news stories.

abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/zimmerman-verdict-lawyers-gun-now-19666524

I have looked all over but have not found this trial of Trayvon Martin you seem to be speaking about or the Jury saying anything other than George Zimmerman was NOT guilty of murder.

Please provide a link on Trayvon Martin being found guilty.
What does that have to do with the post you responded too?
 
From the CCC

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor… the one is intended, the other is not."65

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful… Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another’s life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.66

no where does it say that we are required to be pacifists and allow our heads to be bashed in until we are bran damaged or dead.
 
Indeed. Miss Felicity don’t jump in late in a thread, ignore what has been discussed at great length and posit a completely fabricated scenario if you want to be taken seriously.

Lisa
It amazes me how many times the same details have been presented from evidence at the trial and yet some folks still insist on repeating things they have heard that have been proven inaccurate. That is a big part of the problem. The inaccurate stories just get repeated. Many people didn’t watch the trial or even read transcripts and yet repeat something based on opinion or something the untrustworthy media fabricated. When will that stop?

There have been several very long threads on this topic, beginning last year. Details have been repeated and repeated and repeated. I think we are all going in circles. Zimmerman was found not guilty by a jury of his peers who had been presented with facts and all the evidence that we were not privy to. That is the bottom line.
 
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