Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

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Cider said:
I really don’t get how some people expect to be taken seriously when they obviously have no clue about the evidence presented in the trial. I mean really. Speaking only for myself, the only reason I’m bothering to respond is so that hopefully some other ill informed person can see the facts.
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👍👍 my sentiments exactly. Take the time and get some background before posting falsehoods and opinions in the guise of the truth
Lisa
 
Brendan said:
Here is the Church’s teaching on self-defense ( given by Pope John Paul II in his encyclical “The Gospel of Life”

I presume that every pro-life Catholic would be in full agreement with the teachings offered by soon to be Saint Pope John Paul II
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Are you then advocating that I and all other pro-life catholics to carry a licensed gun for self defense?
 
This case should never have been tried as second-degree murder. Instead, it should have been tried as manslaughter in that GZ was negligent in following TM after being told not to by the dispatcher.
 
LisaA said:
Except that you have evidence that GZ was calm, informing police of the concern, making arrangements with the dispatcher where to meet police, afterward was completely cooperative, did not immediately “lawyer up” and continued to cooperate after the incident.

You’re trying very hard to ignore the evidence that TM initiated the confrontation. We have this in Zimmerman’s words, in Jeantel’s words (even if she’s not that believable when what she says agrees with Zimmerman’s rendition it is more likely to be true). TM had fled the scene. According to the track on the photo I previously posted he was a significant distance from Zimmerman during the time of the call.

Think about what makes the most sense. That Zimmerman having arranged to meet police, speaking on the phone with the dispatcher, spent the time tracking down TM and although shorter, slower and less athletic than TM decided to pick a fight with him? Given his history of reporting incidents, working with neighbors and police, there is no evidence that he would suddenly change his tactics and be engaged in a fist or gunfight just as the police arrived.

Use some logic and get emotion out of it. It makes far more sense that TM was angered by being followed. He was a young black man who had probably experienced the suspicion of others. He was interested and had engaged in street fighting and was probably confident he could teach the “crazy a** cracka” a lesson. For all he knew GZ was just some nosy neighbor wanting to know what a black kid was doing in “his” neighborhood. Impulse control is low, testosterone is high.

I think he circled back, saw GZ and unfortunately the words and fists flew, resulting in Martin’s death.

That is the story told by GZ, by the witnesses such as they were, by the call to the dispatcher, and by the “map” of their respective travels that evening.

Lisa
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That’s basically what I think happened too. I think it was a case of how dare you even look at me, I’ll show you. He lost Zimmerman according to both Zimmerman and the friend Martin was talking to on the phone. She said he was just steps from the house. I think he wanted to teach Zimmerman a lesson and was confident he could. We have texts from him showing he knew a person could be subdued by sitting on them in a certain way. We also have texts of him saying he could win a fight by punching someone in the nose. He just didn’t think Zimmerman would be able to defend himself. He was wrong. It was a fatal mistake. If he’d just gone in the house or called the police it wouldn’t have happened.
 
je333 said:
In this case Zimmerman was following Tim, profiled and chased him.
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Could you please go and read the transcripts of the tapes and testimony and review the evidence?

The evidence and testimony (of the prosecution witnesses) indicated Zimmermamn got out of the car to obtain information the dispatcher was asking for, followed Martin until the dispatcher asked him if he’d gotten out of the car and was following, then told Zimmerman we don’t need you to do that. Zimmerman said Ok, they always get away, then he and the dispatcher discussed Zimmerman meeting the police who were on the way.

There was no chase. Unless you are referring to the brief period of time when Zimmerman initially got out of the car to determine, in response to the dispatcher’s question, which way Martin was heading.

Profiling, please define the term? If you are referring to racial that was shown to be patently false.

Zimmerman did profile Martin based on his behavior. It was unusual for someone to be walking in the rain, apparently not towards a destination, peering into windows as he went.
 
je333 said:
Are you then advocating that I and all other pro-life catholics to carry a licensed gun for self defense?
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I’m a pro-life Catholic with a license to carry…of which I can carry for self defense purposes.

What’s wrong with that?
 
Robert_Sock said:
This case should never have been tried as second-degree murder. Instead, it should have been tried as manslaughter in that GZ was negligent in following TM after being told not to by the dispatcher.
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The jury had instructions on manslaughter and could have found him guilty of that. In fact, they asked the judge for clarification on the manslaughter charge. Then they found him not guilty on both counts.

This is well known public knowledge.

BTW, it’s not against the law to follow someone so you can’t be charge with a crime for that.
 
Robert_Sock said:
This case should never have been tried as second-degree murder. Instead, it should have been tried as manslaughter in that GZ was negligent in following TM after being told not to by the dispatcher.
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Well, except the evidence shows that Zimmerman did stop following Martin.

BTW, the dispatcher never ordered Zimmerman to do anything. He did not have the authority to give binding orders to anyone. Zimmerman did comply after the dispatcher said, We don’t need you to do that. But he was under no obligation to comply.
 
Tucker_R said:
tm went for Z’s gun… was hitting his head against the cement… I woulda shot him too.
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For heavens sake, what is the matter with most of you?Does not a teen age boy have a right to defend himself. Peace, Carlan
 
Robert_Sock said:
This case should never have been tried as second-degree murder. Instead, it should have been tried as manslaughter in that GZ was negligent in following TM after being told not to by the dispatcher.
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No negligence there because there was no obligation on Zimmerman’s part to follow orders from the dispatcher. Zimmerman had as much right to follow Martin as Martin did to be walking down the street. Regardless, manslaughter would have been a more appropriate charge if, in fact, any charge should have been made. Self defense is still a legitimate right and that includes defending against a charge of manslaughter.

Peace

Tim
 
Cider said:
The jury had instructions on manslaughter and could have found him guilty of that. In fact, they asked the judge for clarification on the manslaughter charge. Then they found him not guilty on both counts.

This is well known public knowledge.

BTW, it’s not against the law to follow someone so you can’t be charge with a crime for that.
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One of the jurors talked about the difficulty of sorting through the various laws. On the original poll I voted for manslaughter (before the trial). In my home state he likely would have been convicted of that and received a short term or no jail time.
 
Carlan said:
For heavens sake, what is the matter with most of you?Does not a teen age boy have a right to defend himself. Peace, Carlan
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No, you don’t get to beat someones head into concrete because they looked at you wrong or followed you. It’s not against the law. There is no evidence that Zimmerman physically threatened Martin with great bodily harm or death, until after he was attacked and was trying to defend himself.

If he Zimmerman hadn’t defended himself from the beating he was getting Martin would have been on trial for what he did. Possibly murder if he didn’t stop in time. Those were the two options.
 
Carlan said:
For heavens sake, what is the matter with most of you?Does not a teen age boy have a right to defend himself. Peace, Carlan
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Yes…both should have gone their separate ways. TM’s mistake was in returning. GZ’s mistake was in getting out of the car.

Having armed amateurs running around the streets playing cop is Florida’s mistake.
 
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