Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

[LisaA]

Your posts are biased against ZImmerman and gun owners. Until you show the very thing you call others to do you have no credibility. Not that your accusation has any foundation in the first place. You’ve argued emotionalism consistently against the evidence presented at trial and the law.You don’t even post anything new, it’s just the same old same old that has been repeatedly answered and proven false yet you continue on just copy and pasting the same comments.

Which is precisely why I asked April to post the dead horse emoticon. There is no point in simply repeating the same overwrought but irrelevant comments about guns or gunslingers or vigilantes. AndI there is no point in providing facts, evidence, and testimony when the perspective is emotionalism alone.

I am not on the side of GZ, I am on the “side” of what the evidence indicated. Amazingly enough the jury seems also to be on the side of upholding the law and considering the facts instead of some sort of vindictive desire to punish GZ for perhaps poor judgment.

The facts, the evidence, the testimony and the verdict all stand against a number of made up scenerios, what ifs, and speculation.

Lisa

 

[Robert_Sock]

ZIMMERMAN didn’t follow Martin. He didn’t. And that is where Martin was. He was home free. Safe. He told Jeantel that he was in the back yard.

Well, he was until he went to confront this crazy a** cracker.

So here is a question for you MaryT777. Why was Martin following Zimmerman?

TM confronted GZ because he wanted to ask him a question. If GZ was not following TM, why was TM’s body found some 53 yards from GZ’s truck? We already know that GZ could easily have read the street addresses from his truck, and there were only 3 streets in the complex, which GZ was fully familiar with.

 

[SamH]

TM confronted GZ because he wanted to ask him a question.

And that question was “You got a problem?”

Thank you for finally admitting that it was Martin that confronted Zimmerman.

 

[LisaA]

Yes, empathy for Zimmerman certainly is lacking in this thread. He, apparently, should have just had the good grace to allow himself to just be beaten to death rather than dare to defend his life.

Yes, I know you meant empathy for Martin, of course, but have you tried at all to think of this from Zimmerman’s viewpoint?

I honestly think the whole situation arose due to a series of misunderstandings leading to a horrific outcome not just for Martin, but for Zimmerman too, and each of their families, and now extending to their American family. It is tragic for all of us because it has divided an already divided America along yet another line. The race-baiters want that line to be along race to suit their agenda, but it is not. Bottom line, if they keep up, nobody will win in this. Nobody. We have already lost much. Shall we see how much more we can lose? With the way this is continuing, I think we shall. Sigh.

Bravo and unfortunately the race hucksters and political operatives are not letting a crisis go to waste. Setting up a hotline to see if someone in the deep dark past might recall George Zimmerman being rude to a black kid in the drive up at McDonalds or some other trumped up charge of racism is truly chilling. Our own DOJ having previously suggested that we spy on and rat out each other for criticizing the President seems to think it’s playing the lead role in a modern day 1984.

I think race relations have never been worse thanks to this and other cases (Duke LaCrosse for example) where the “white” (or half white) guy must be guilty of SOMETHING so if he’s not guilty of the crime alleged he must have gotten away with some other offense.

Truly sad in a country that used to be “from many one…” We now seem to be from one many and we don’t like each other very much anymore
Lisa

 

[BroomWagon]

TM confronted GZ because he wanted to ask him a question. If GZ was not following TM, why was TM’s body found some 53 yards from GZ’s truck? We already know that GZ could easily have read the street addresses from his truck, and there were only 3 streets in the complex, which GZ was fully familiar with.

This is why, GZ has a plausible theory but it is not necessarily the facts.

Take the statement Zimmernan says Trayvon makes “Tonight you are going to die!”.

Do we really believe this? Some may, Zimmernan’s theory is plausible but that sounds like something one hears in a movie as pointed out. Likewise, Zimmerman could be coached by his father who has a legal background.

It’s strange Jeantel was saying Martin was giving Zimmerman some “whoop ----”, that sounds different than saying he was trying to murder him. I concur, we can’t take Jeantel’s word but I don’t find Zimmerman’s word to be foolproof as well.

This is why I think it’s plausible to say the jury did not think the State built a case for murder or else, that that is just as possible as the Self-Defense case of Zimmerman.

 

[maryjk]

TM confronted GZ because he wanted to ask him a question. If GZ was not following TM, why was TM’s body found some 53 yards from GZ’s truck? We already know that GZ could easily have read the street addresses from his truck, and there were only 3 streets in the complex, which GZ was fully familiar with.

If Martin had simply walked away, since he was already in his father’s girlfriend’s backyard, he would have made it home that night.

But instead, he had to ask a question. He had to confront that creepy a** cracker.

“You got a problem?”

“No”

“You do now.”

 

[MaryT777]

ZIMMERMAN didn’t follow Martin. He didn’t. And that is where Martin was. He was home free. Safe. He told Jeantel that he was in the back yard.

Well, he was until he went to confront this crazy a** cracker.

So here is a question for you MaryT777. Why was Martin following Zimmerman?

I wouldn’t go home with someone following me.
I’d be concerned to have them know where I live. Plenty of people have been victims in their homes.

I don’t know why Martin did anything for he’s dead’; that’s the whole problem.

We know Zimmerman followed Martin he said so HIMSELF when asked. YEA was his answer when asked by the dispatcher.

Apparently following him from his vehicle wasn’t good enough he had to get out and follow him on foot; that would be frightening.

 

[Robert_Sock]

And that question was “You got a problem?”

Thank you for finally admitting that it was Martin that confronted Zimmerman.

And what’s wrong with asking an innocent question? Most blacks would likely have responded with the same phrase. And, I’m not talking about about who was the aggressor.

 

[Brendan]

Why would TM risk life in prison unless he was threatened.

Same thing could be said of Zimmerman, could it not.

 

[BroomWagon]

If Martin had simply walked away, since he was already in his father’s girlfriend’s backyard, he would have made it home that night.

But instead, he had to ask a question. He had to confront that creepy a** cracker.

“You got a problem?”

“No”

“You do now.”

Still, sometimes one may have reasons to not want someone to know where they live, some reasons might not be favorable, say if Zimmerman saw Martin smoking or something, some reasons might make sense, Martin could fear for the wellbeing of his family if Zimmerman as a complete stranger knew where he lived. Most likely, Martin should have gone home but we don’t know if it’s a possibility that Zimmerman had his gun already drawn in following Martin, we simply don’t know and rely on Zimmerman’s word in the narrative.

 

[Cider]

Same thing could be said of Zimmerman, could it not.

And has been, yet it’s repeatedly ignored. As is the CCC teaching on legitimate self defense.

 

[MaryT777]

This is why, GZ has a plausible theory but it is not necessarily the facts.

Take the statement Zimmernan says Trayvon makes “Tonight you are going to die!”.

Do we really believe this? Some may, Zimmernan’s theory is plausible but that sounds like something one hears in a movie as pointed out. Likewise, Zimmerman could be coached by his father who has a legal background.

It’s strange Jeantel was saying Martin was giving Zimmerman some “whoop ----”, that sounds different than saying he was trying to murder him. I concur, we can’t take Jeantel’s word but I don’t find Zimmerman’s word to be foolproof as well.

This is why I think it’s plausible to say the jury did not think the State built a case for murder or else, that that is just as possible as the Self-Defense case of Zimmerman.

Excellent point. We have no clue what TM said. Zimmermann can’t tell the truth from the initial bond hearing regarding how much money he had, to his knowledge of self defense to his changes in his story.
I don’t have a reason to believe what he said is what actually happened.

 

[BroomWagon]

And what’s wrong with asking an innocent question? Most blacks would likely have responded with the same phrase. And, I’m not talking about about who was the aggressor.

Again, Zimmerman’s narrative Martin said “Do you have a problem” but Zimmerman’s defense is plausible but it does not mean it is factual or embellished. Zimmerman also says Trayvon Martin said “Tonight you are going to die”, again, this sounds a bit like something you would hear in a movie.

 

[Cider]

Which is precisely why I asked April to post the dead horse emoticon. There is no point in simply repeating the same overwrought but irrelevant comments about guns or gunslingers or vigilantes. AndI there is no point in providing facts, evidence, and testimony when the perspective is emotionalism alone.

I am not on the side of GZ, I am on the “side” of what the evidence indicated. Amazingly enough the jury seems also to be on the side of upholding the law and considering the facts instead of some sort of vindictive desire to punish GZ for perhaps poor judgment.

The facts, the evidence, the testimony and the verdict all stand against a number of made up scenerios, what ifs, and speculation.

Lisa

I can’t believe the thread has been allowed to stay open this long, we are close to 2000 posts. I think it might be a record in length?

You’re right though. You can’t argue reality with fantasy land.

 

[LisaA]

Still, sometimes one may have reasons to not want someone to know where they live, some reasons might not be favorable, say if Zimmerman saw Martin smoking or something, some reasons might make sense, Martin could fear for the wellbeing of his family if Zimmerman as a complete stranger knew where he lived. Most likely, Martin should have gone home but we don’t know if it’s a possibility that Zimmerman had his gun already drawn in following Martin, we simply don’t know and rely on Zimmerman’s word in the narrative.

You and others conveniently forget that Zimmerman HAD LOST SIGHT OF MARTIN. LOOK AT THE MAP. MARTIN WAS A LONG WAY FROM ZIMMERMAN SUPPOSEDLY IN HIS BACK YARD.

He would NOT have shown Zimmerman where he lived since Zimmerman didn’t see where he had gone. It was dark and rainy. Hard to imagine Zimmerman with xray vision seeing through buildings and then leaping them to pounce on Martin.

Would you address some facts for a change instead of continuing to make up obviously false and impossible scenarios?

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

I can’t believe the thread has been allowed to stay open this long, we are close to 2000 posts. I think it might be a record in length?

You’re right though. You can’t argue reality with fantasy land.

Cider I know I know…shoot me I should just give up even responding. BTW I think years ago we had a longer thread…seems like about 1900 posts but probably before the policy of cutting off at 1000
Lisa

 

[MaryT777]

And what’s wrong with asking an innocent question? Most blacks would likely have responded with the same phrase. And, I’m not talking about about who was the aggressor.

There is nothing wrong with asking an innocent question as to why someone is following you; obviously they have some problem with what you’re doing.

 

[BroomWagon]

Zimmerman states Martin said “Tonight you are going to die” in the struggle, asserting such a statement strengthens the argument for one acting in self-defense. But again, this is a bit of a far fetched assumption to make about 2 people fighting in the rain at night.

I would be aware Zimmerman made this statement in the reconstruction but at least some of the interviewing happened after he was able to talk to his father.

---

Still, this is just one case, Allen West made the valid point, we have other crimes, heinous, why are these not talked about? One can see Allen West’s statement in full in the news.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Same thing could be said of Zimmerman, could it not.

Yes, but that’s why it’s important to provide both perspectives. That’s my point.

 

[lcburgundy]

Excellent point. We have no clue what TM said. Zimmermann can’t tell the truth from the initial bond hearing regarding how much money he had, to his knowledge of self defense to his changes in his story.
I don’t have a reason to believe what he said is what actually happened.

Sigh. People really do want to string someone up regardless of the facts. How do you account for the police testifying at trial that they found Zimmerman’s account credible and consistent across multiple questioning sessions? Do you realize how police never say that? Have you ever faced hostile questioning regarding a traumatic event? Very few people can get through that and still have police say they actually believed what a suspect had said.

A shame. You should have consulted with the prosecution to assure a conviction. It’s almost as if the facts aren’t on your side.