Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

[MaryT777]

So can you actually answer this hypothetical:

Please stop dissembling with your weird obsession with GZ’s father. I realize you really want to see GZ suffer and pay, but wow.

Hypotheticals are not facts.

I have no obsession with GZ’s Father nor do I want to see GZ suffer and pay.
I would prefer not to see him if he is armed myself given his irresponsibility issues and prior violent trolling episodes.

I have said no such things.
That’s speculation not fact.

 

[maryjk]

No I AM trying facts not opinions.
TM IS dead and not here.
Zimmerman is not truthful from day 1 with bond hearing; with lying about knowledge of self defense laws etc.
Dad Judge can’t protect him now anymore from trials and charges.

His dad wasn’t a judge.

Sorry, but that was a talking point that ended up not being true.

“Robert J. Zimmerman served as a full-time magistrate from 2000-2006. Please be advised that in Virginia magistrates are judicial officers, but they are not considered “judges” and do not possess trial jurisdiction. More detailed information on the role of the magistrate in Virginia is available on Virginia’s Judicial System Website .”

Read more: abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/zimmerman-dad-worked-as-magistrate#ixzz2a5UHmeFE

 

[MaryT777]

Yes, Zimmermans attorney said they relied on the facts and evidence. The prosecution was reduced to yelling, “Look, a squirrel!”

If the facts are against you, argue the law.
If the law is against you, argue the facts.

If the facts and the law are against you. Scream like ****

Which is why the prosecution attorneys couldn’t just play the tape of Zimmerman’s words. They had to yell and scream them to try and put the emotion they wanted the jurors to believe Zimmerman had, not the actual emotion expressed by his own tone

That’s certainly an interesting opinion.
My opinion is Zimmerman never looked like he could care one whit less that he killed a man.

 

[lcburgundy]

Hypotheticals are not facts.

Well you said yourself that TM’s testimony was the missing link. I offered up his testimony that he was shot in a 100% unprovoked manner. TM is saying that he did NOTHING to provoke that - at all. Just walking home with his skittles and a man came up from behind, took him down, then pulled out a gun and shot him. That’s all. So now you can offer a judgment of GZ’s guilt, right?

I have no obsession with GZ’s Father nor do I want to see GZ suffer and pay.
I would prefer not to see him if he is armed myself given his irresponsibility issues and prior violent trolling episodes.

I have said no such things.
That’s speculation not fact.

If GZ has any sense, he will have to be armed for the rest of his life in addition to wearing body armor, because he cannot probably afford a full-time bodyguard.

I still recommend the car sticker and vest approaches to ward off George Zimmerman. One family has been helped already - you don’t want to be next!

 

[MaryT777]

His dad wasn’t a judge.

Sorry, but that was a talking point that ended up not being true.

Sorry, but is IS true. AT one time he was a “low level judge”.
Not current occupation as you know.
Was it he operative word.
Now he’s In hiding because of his son.

 

[styrgwillidar]

That’s certainly an interesting opinion.
My opinion is Zimmerman never looked like he could care one whit less that he killed a man.

Impossible to tell what a man is thinking by looking at him. I didn’t cry at my Mom’s bedside as she lay dying, or at her funeral, or as we lowered her coffin into the ground, or as I went through all her things and pictures. Well, at anytime since.

Doesn’t mean I didn’t love her. Or feel a tremendous loss at her death.

 

[MaryT777]

Well you said yourself that TM’s testimony was the missing link. I offered up his testimony that he was shot in a 100% unprovoked manner. TM is saying that he did NOTHING to provoke that - at all. Just walking home with his skittles and a man came up from behind, took him down, then pulled out a gun and shot him. That’s all. So now you can offer a judgment of GZ’s guilt, right?

I have no obsession with GZ’s Father nor do I want to see GZ suffer and pay.
I would prefer not to see him if he is armed myself given his irresponsibility issues and prior violent trolling episodes.

If GZ has any sense, he will have to be armed for the rest of his life in addition to wearing body armor, because he cannot probably afford a full-time bodyguard.

At least we know he’s armed. That’s a good thing given his history.
He won’t be able to afford a full time bodyguard because his donated money is running out… was already running out when they lied at the bond hearing and some money will go to defending the perjury charge of course.

I still recommend the car sticker and vest approaches to ward off George Zimmerman. One family has been helped already - you don’t want to be next!

 

[adrift]

Hypotheticals are not facts.

I have no obsession with GZ’s Father nor do I want to see GZ suffer and pay.
I would prefer not to see him if he is armed myself given his irresponsibility issues and prior violent trolling episodes.

I have said no such things.
That’s speculation not fact.

There were no violent trolling episodes. This is one of those “facts” that were invented. I have challenged you before which you ignore. When you haven’t got facts to back up claims, just keep making the charges and ignore challenges to your claims.

 

[BroomWagon]

Yes, Zimmermans attorney said they relied on the facts and evidence. The prosecution was reduced to yelling, “Look, a squirrel!”

Or more like “Look, a witness that says he/she saw Trayvon Martin confront George Zimmerman”, oh, wait, we don’t have that.

By the way, you make an assertion, do you have that verbatim from a source we can verify? He may have said this in an interview, that’s nothing official. You make the claim.

If the facts are against you, argue the law.
If the law is against you, argue the facts.

If the facts and the law are against you. Scream like ****

That is your own interpretation again.

Which is why the prosecution attorneys couldn’t just play the tape of Zimmerman’s words. They had to yell and scream them to try and put the emotion they wanted the jurors to believe Zimmerman had, not the actual emotion expressed by his own tone

.No, you said it to begin with, there was not a good case against Zimmerman, a lack of evidence, so you in essence make that point. Nowhere does the jury say they find “not guilty” because all of the facts line up with Zimmerman.

By the way, per the pro-Zimmerman side, let’s wonder what their best evidence is.

Picture of a broken nose??

George Zimmerman’s testimony, other man being dead?

Band aid injuries on the back of his head.

The truth is it’s the lack of evidence, you can’t pull one thing out and say, this shows Martin initiated all the problems, in fact, you can say the 911 tape shows Zimmerman got out of his car where many claim he certainly didn’t have to.

 

[MaryT777]

Exactly BW, the facts are clear from the recorded tape Z was following TM. He says so himself when asked

Not everyone probably had time to listen to the entire tape though it was played so often in the trial as well and isolated it was hard to miss.

 

[BroomWagon]

There were no violent trolling episodes. This is one of those “facts” that were invented. I have challenged you before which you ignore. When you haven’t got facts to back up claims, just keep making the charges and ignore challenges to your claims.

Looks like the Nation did print Zimmerman was trolling his ex-fiance per the Miami Herald, looks like this was involved in the domestic violence accusations. Maybe it could have been stated better but all the same, doesn’t exactly fall into “making things up.”

The latter accusation is especially important because it provided the blueprint for Zimmerman’s own claim of self-defense again Trayvon Martin. According to the Miami Herald, Zimmerman

was also involved in a domestic dispute with his ex-fiancée, hair salon employee Veronica Zauzo. Zauzo claimed Zimmerman was trolling her neighborhood to check on her. At her apartment, they spoke for about an hour when she asked him to leave. He asked for some photos and paperwork and she refused. A pushing match ensued and her dog jumped up and bit him on the cheek, Zauzo claimed. Zimmerman, in a petition filed the next day, painted her as the aggressor, wanting him to stay the night.

Read more: Domestic Violence and George Zimmerman’s Defense | The Nation thenation.com/blog/175270/domestic-violence-and-george-zimmermans-defense#ixzz2a5YNTrfk
Follow us: @thenation on Twitter | TheNationMagazine on Facebook

I don’t like the Nation as a source but they published this too:

Zimmerman’s pattern for violence had already been established:** trolling a neighborhood for his victim, pushing her when confronted, attacking her character, and arguing that she was the aggressor when charges were filed against him.** While the Assistant State Attorney Bernardo de la Rionda brought up both testimonies in bond hearing in April 2012, they were not presented as evidence during the trial. In contrast, the judge did rule that evidence of marijuana that was found in Martin’s system was admissible.

Read more: Domestic Violence and George Zimmerman’s Defense | The Nation thenation.com/blog/175270/domestic-violence-and-george-zimmermans-defense#ixzz2a5Yp06lf
Follow us: @thenation on Twitter | TheNationMagazine on Facebook

I wouldn’t connect the dots like the Nation does but not positive it is totally false.

 

[maryjk]

Sorry, but is IS true. AT one time he was a “low level judge”.
Not current occupation as you know.
Was it he operative word.
Now he’s In hiding because of his son.

He was a magistrate. NOT a judge. As the link stated he had no trial jurisdiction.

There were no violent trolling episodes. This is one of those “facts” that were invented. **I have challenged you before which you ignore. ** When you haven’t got facts to back up claims, just keep making the charges and ignore challenges to your claims.

It is a trend.

 

[MaryT777]

His wife, not Zimmerman, was asked at a bond hearing how much they had to spend for the bond. She told the court she did not know how much was in the fund and suggested they call Zimmerman’s brother, who was handling that. She said it about 3 times. The amount she told the court was how much she and Zimmerman had along with the last amount she’d heard from the fund.

Zimmerman was asked about the “Stand Your Ground” law on Hannity’s program. This is not the actual name of the law, which his prof testified had been studied under its proper name rather than the slang name.

Zimmerman’s father was a magistrate in Virginia, which are called “magistrate judges” but which at the time required only a high school diploma to be hired for. Not the high-flying power-broker on Florida you seem to think he is.

Yes he was lower level judge. I never said he was a high flying power broker on (ON or IN?) Florida. I never said he was more than high school educated either.

 

[MaryT777]

He was a magistrate. NOT a judge. As the link stated he had no trial jurisdiction.

It is a trend.

They are called magistrate judges in that state.

Zimmerman was never on trial before anyways was he?

 

[St_Francis]

Or more like “Look, a witness that says he/she saw Trayvon Martin confront George Zimmerman”, oh, wait, we don’t have that.

By the way, you make an assertion, do you have that verbatim from a source we can verify? He may have said this in an interview, that’s nothing official. You make the claim.

That is your own interpretation again.

.No, you said it to begin with, there was not a good case against Zimmerman, a lack of evidence, so you in essence make that point. Nowhere does the jury say they find “not guilty” because all of the facts line up with Zimmerman.

By the way, per the pro-Zimmerman side, let’s wonder what their best evidence is.

Picture of a broken nose??

George Zimmerman’s testimony, other man being dead?

Band aid injuries on the back of his head.

The truth is it’s the lack of evidence, you can’t pull one thing out and say, this shows Martin initiated all the problems, in fact, you can say the 911 tape shows Zimmerman got out of his car where many claim he certainly didn’t have to.

As time has gone along and I have found out more about Zimmerman’s statements, the evidence, etc, one of the things that has struck me is that Zimmerman’s statements lined up with what evidence there was. Zimmerman spoke with the police on the night of the shooting, and on the day after, when he did a “re-enactment” on the scene.

At these times, Zimmerman did not know what the evidence would be, and was at one point told that there might be a video recording–to which he replied, “Thank God!”–and yet his testimony remained basically the same throughout.

Frankly, no matter how much education he had, I don’t think he would have been able to tailor his story to evidence he didn’t know the details of and have it come out as corroborated as it was.

 

[BroomWagon]

He was a magistrate. NOT a judge. As the link stated he had no trial jurisdiction.

It is a trend.

Are you denying Zimmerman’s father would not have a good knowledge of the Judicial system??

Zimmerman: Dad worked as magistrate

TAMPA - Some viewers on the ABC Action News Facebook page have asked whether George Zimmerman’s father served as a judge.

Some have speculated Zimmerman’s father may have used that position to get a 2005 charge against his son thrown out (although, while the charge of assaulting a law enforcement officer was dropped, there is no proof Zimmerman’s father played any role in making that happen).

Read more: abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/zimmerman-dad-worked-as-magistrate#ixzz2a5bHm2JP

We better write ABC news, they got it wrong.

 

[BroomWagon]

He was a magistrate. NOT a judge. As the link stated he had no trial jurisdiction.

We obtained a copy of George Zimmerman’s application to join the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office Citizens Law Enforcement Academy.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Or more like “Look, a witness that says he/she saw Trayvon Martin confront George Zimmerman”, oh, wait, we don’t have that.

The saying, “If the facts are against you…” is a very old saying amongst lawyers. It is helpful, in analyzing cases.

I don’t think of myself as pro or anti anybody. I’m pro justice. Having followed the case from the inital reports and affidavits, I’ve found it interesting and instructive. Both in how the legal and political systems addressed it-- and the attitudes/pre-conceptions folks brought into it. Whether racism, hoplophobia, or how they view volunteerism.

I agree we do not have a witness for the crucial instant where the fight actually became physical. But the overall view of the evidence, the consistency of the physical evidence with Zimmerman’s story, the testimony of even the prosecution witness support his story as being the most plausible explanation. If he’s lying, well it’s incredibly hard to tell a lie where all the physical evidence and testimony, even the girl on the phone with Martin, and the witnesses and recordings you’re not even aware of end up lining up to support it.

You’ve been following for a while, so you probably saw the comments about- even if the jury considered Zimmerman as having started it, there is a legal concept of the aggressor can change during a fight. Just because you punch me, if I get the upper hand I can’t continue to the point of killing you if you are attempting to withdraw from the fight. I then become the aggressor. Did the jury take that approach? I don’t know. I don’t know that Zimmerman being on the bottom and screaming for help for a, relatively given the circumstances,long time is sufficient indication of a desire to withdraw. Jury may have thought so though.

I don’t know what else to say, I don’t know why were allowed to go so far past the 1,000 post limit.

 

[BroomWagon]

As time has gone along and I have found out more about Zimmerman’s statements, the evidence, etc, one of the things that has struck me is that Zimmerman’s statements lined up with what evidence there was. Zimmerman spoke with the police on the night of the shooting, and on the day after, when he did a “re-enactment” on the scene.

At these times, Zimmerman did not know what the evidence would be, and was at one point told that there might be a video recording–to which he replied, “Thank God!”–and yet his testimony remained basically the same throughout.

Frankly, no matter how much education he had, I don’t think he would have been able to tailor his story to evidence he didn’t know the details of and have it come out as corroborated as it was.

I agree, I don’t think Zimmerman would be smart enough to give a statement in a particular way, I wouldn’t be that smart, nor to necessarily pass the voice stress tests.

That said, Zimmerman’s testimony is aimed at showing reasonable doubt he committed the crime, as the Lawyer Mark O’Mara said, the jury can think Zimmerman was highly unlikely to have used self defense but could the jury say he did not use Self-Defense beyond a reasonable doubt.

breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/07/12/Zimmerman-Trial-The-Sound-of-Silence

However the lawyer stated it.

 

[maryjk]

They are called magistrate judges in that state.

Zimmerman was never on trial before anyways was he?

Actually, Judges are called Judges. Magistrates on the other hand are called Magistrates.

Either way, there is nothing to show that his father, regardless of his job, “protected him.”

Now, BroomWagon seems to think that having a father that is a Magistrate makes Zimmerman well versed in the court system. If that is true, Zimmerman didn’t learn much because everyone knows you don’t talk without an attorney present. Even I know that, and all I have ever done is served on a jury.