Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

[lcburgundy]

Detroit is bankrupt, just recorded it’s 176th murder of the year and instead of addressing core issues that faces the city, the city council opts to play the race card. Is it any wonder they are bankrupt?

foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/25/detroits-city-council-spends-time-weighing-in-on-zimmerman-case-puts-motor-city/#ixzz2a6rdaQ93

The Detroit City Council is totally powerless right now. They have jurisdiction over almost nothing. By definition, they have nothing to do but pass meaningless resolutions.

 

[GaryTaylor]

To me this is akin to blaming a rape victim for the rape because they were dressed provocatively.

TM confronted GZ “then” the altercation occurred.

Well to me your position of denial of reality leaves no path to proceed in a positive direction for those of us of all race, who clearly acknowledge this dilemma. Which is unfortunate since the black race is suffering the effects statistically, in court and corrections.

This young adult, TM played a role in his own fate. If you want to claim innocence and denial then do realize the same situation will re-occur. Sad as it is, TM certainly had a hand in this.

 

[MaryT777]

Thugs get suspended from school.

Thugs have a lot of jewelry found on them that wasn’t theirs.

Thugs like to take photos of themselves using drugs.

Thugs like to take photos of themselves with illegal guns. (Surely, Bob, you would agree that it was a grave evil for Trayvon to possess a handgun as both a minor and not a police officer.)

Thugs like to take photos of them and their buddies fighting.

Etc.

This thug is dead now.
This thug was doing nothing that night wrong according to the police officer.

 

[lcburgundy]

This thug is dead now.
This thug was doing nothing that night wrong according to the police officer.

I was just responding to someone questioning why he could be called a thug.

The latter half belies a pretty profound and purposeful lack of understanding of case facts and law at this point, so I’ll just not bother addressing it.

 

[MaryT777]

TM confronted GZ “then” the altercation occurred.

Well to me your position of denial of reality leaves no path to proceed in a positive direction for those of us of all race, who clearly acknowledge this dilemma. Which is unfortunate since the black race is suffering the effects statistically, in court and corrections.

This young adult, TM played a role in his own fate. If you want to claim innocence and denial then do realize the same situation will re-occur. Sad as it is, TM certainly had a hand in this.

I don’t believe ever again we’ll see a NW person kill an innocent man that has heard of this trial. Hopefully this will steer away people who want to be police officers from participating in the NW. I think that was Z’s problem; he just couldn’t leave his responsibility of that of a citizen and chose to act as a police officer. That said some are not too impressed with the police as it is with the high crime rate in this country.

Well Z played a role in his own fate. He was looking for trouble sadly where none existed that night. Police officer testified TM was doing NOTHING suspect or wrong.

 

[lcburgundy]

Tonight I’ve learned that you’re a dangerous and violent person that cannot be trusted if you want to become a police officer or even just be knowledgeable law, until you become a police officer, and then your words must not ever be questioned and you magically can be entrusted with a gun. What a world.

 

[MaryT777]

Tonight I’ve learned that you’re a dangerous and violent person that cannot be trusted if you want to become a police officer or even just be knowledgeable law, until you become a police officer, and then your words must not ever be questioned and you magically can be entrusted with a gun. What a world.

There is no poster that has said you are a dangerous and violent person if you want to become a police officer.

There is no poster that has said you cannot be trusted if you are knowledgeable of the law.
GZ lied about his knowledge of the law. Why was that?

No one has ever posted that once you become a police officer then your words must never be questioned.

I have never posted anything about police officers being magically being entrusted with a gun.

 

[St_Francis]

Tonight I’ve learned that you’re a dangerous and violent person that cannot be trusted if you want to become a police officer or even just be knowledgeable law, until you become a police officer, and then your words must not ever be questioned and you magically can be entrusted with a gun. What a world.

But you are not a dangerous person if you do drugs, possess jewelry recently stolen from a nearby home, play around with pistols, and engage in fighting.

Nope, once you are dead, you become an immaculate angel… Welcome to Mary’s world.

 

[lcburgundy]

There is no poster that has said you are a dangerous and violent person if you want to become a police officer.

"MaryT777:

Exactly. I don’t think GZ ever got over the fact he was rejected by the police force.

There is no poster that has said you cannot be trusted if you are knowledgeable of the law.
GZ lied about his knowledge of the law. Why was that?

You do not let an irrelevant prosecution talking point go, do you Mary? I’m glad to hear your memory is infallible. As “lies” go, that really was pretty lame. Didn’t you forget to cut and paste in the incorrect allegation that he lied about bond money too like as much lame gossip as that is?

No one has ever posted that once you become a police officer then your words must never be questioned.

Oh, a lot of people think a policeman or clerk or whatever telling you to stay in your car (something that never happened in this case) is the absolute law of the land and all who contravene are guilty as sin.

I have never posted anything about police officers being magically being entrusted with a gun.

Who said you did?

 

[St_Francis]

There is no poster that has said you are a dangerous and violent person if you want to become a police officer.

There is no poster that has said you cannot be trusted if you are knowledgeable of the law.

You have been saying this all along about Zimmerman!

GZ lied about his knowledge of the law. Why was that?

As has been pointed out to you more than once, Hannity asked Zimmerman about his knowledge of “Stand Your Ground,” a non-legal name for this law. Zimmermn’s professor testified they used the real name of the law in class.

Is this the one place you can find “proof” of Zimmerman’s “lying”? And yet you continually accuse him of lying in so many ways despite the evidence that he did not lie at all.

 

[lcburgundy]

But you are not a dangerous person if you do drugs, possess jewelry recently stolen from a nearby home, play around with pistols, and engage in fighting.

Nope, once you are dead, you become an immaculate angel… Welcome to Mary’s world.

Perhaps it’s a form of survivor’s-guilt-by-proxy?

 

[adrift]

I have posted this before without comment. I think it deserves some consideration.

My July 13 comment:

I read a LOT of the released disclosures. While the media has said there were no earth shaking revelations, I totally disagree. I have things to do but I make a few quick comments:

1. It is interesting that to have a complete picture of Trayvon Martin that night and the situation before the altercation, we have to look at different witness statements, in the discovery just handed over to the defense.

• On page # 35 the medical examiner on scene reported seeing the Skittles package in Trayvon Martin’s hoodie top front pocket. She does NOT recall seeing the beverage Martin also bought at 7/11.

• On page 81 a paramedic/firefighter reports that he lifted Martin’s hoodie and saw the beverage in Trayvon Martin’s shirt pocket.

• The brown plastic that the 7/11 clerk had placed the items was found on the ground by where the shooting occurred.

• Zimmerman has said that when he saw Trayvon Martin that he (Trayvon) pulled out his cell phone. Trayvon Martin’s T-Mobile cell phone was found laying on the grass where the shooting occurred.

1. My point is this. Why did Trayvon Martin walk back to the complex with the beverage and Skittles in the 7/11 plastic bag, but apparently when almost home remove both items from the bag and put the Skittles into his hoodie pouch and the heavier canned beverage into his inner shirt pocket?

It is my contention that Trayvon Martin’s actions in this regard are evidence of preparing to assault Zimmerman.

Basically, Trayvon Martin wanted his hands free. The bag filled with items was a hindrance so he quickly puts the Skittles into the hoodie pouch, places the can (that is heavier) into his shirt pocket, where it would be more secure, and either tossed the bag aside or put it into the hoodie pocket also (where during the assault it fell out of the pocket and on to the ground).

This is relevant to proving Trayvon Martin was the aggressor. (We need to find out if when Zimmerman was talking to the dispatcher what Zimmerman saw could have been a plastic bag).

I welcome an alternative explanation on why Trayvon Martin in the 7/11 video accepted the 7/11 clerk’s offer for a bag, the items were placed in a bag, then Trayvon Martin walks home, and a few yards from the town home he was staying at he removes the items from the bag and puts them into his pockets.

This is convincing evidence proving correct Zimmerman’s version of events.

Zimmerman says that Trayvon Martin ambushed him, then there was an exchange of words after which Trayvon Martin swung and broke Zimmerman’s nose.

• Trayvon Martin securing the Skittles and beverage in his pockets were the first steps in Trayvon Martin being the aggressor.

• The second bit of evidence was Trayvon Martin doubling back.

• A third piece of evidence was Martin allegedly telling DeeDee he was not going to run and expressing offense/rage that a white guy was following him.

• Fourth, DeeDee told Trayvon Martin to run home. DeeDee supposedly told him that twice. Since Trayvonites are so vehement when saying that George Zimmerman refused the police order not to follow Trayvon Martin (there was no such order), Corey and Crump need to explain why Trayvon Martin did not do as DeeDee told him to do, run home.

• Fifth, in her talk with Crump (his “witness tampering” meeting) and the State Attorney, DeeDee did NOT tell Crump or Corey that when DeeDee told Martin to run home he did NOT respond “I am too far away, I can’t make it home.” Nor did he say “I can’t outrun that guy, he looks really fit and he looks like he can take me with one or two punches.”

• Sixth, we know of course that none of that was said to DeeDee. It is because Trayvon Martin was only a few yards from Brandy Green’s apartment and there’s no way a 17-year-old, stud football player, who made fight club videos, would feel threatened or outmatched by a pudgy, short guy, out-of-shape guy on the horizon, so to speak. (Whom Trayvon Martin determined after he started talking to Zimmerman quickly concluded that George was not the police. So gave himself a green light to assault George.)

I agree with the author of this piece that it looks like the evidence supports that Martin was the agressor. I would like to read counters to the opinion here that present evidence.

 

[LisaA]

I have posted this before without comment. I think it deserves some consideration.

I agree with the author of this piece that it looks like the evidence supports that Martin was the agressor. I would like to read counters to the opinion here that present evidence.

Adrift, I agree. Having read much of the evidence, both allowed and not introduced but available through public sites, along with the video of Martin in the 7/11, along with the maps of each man’s movements that night, before and during the eventual altercation, I see exactly ZERO evidence supporting anything other than the scenerio testified to by multiple witnesses and the eventual conclusion of the jury.

Zimmerman was guilty of:

Noticing a stranger in his neighborhood
Reporting the stranger
Attempting to assess his whereabouts after he fled the initial contact
Defending himself when attacked

And the worst of all…owning and carrying a legal firearm that he was trained and able to use.

Alas for those who simply cannot abide the idea that someone might have a gun, the facts do not matter, Martin’s contribution to his unnecessary and premature death do not matter, and that a jury reached a not guilty verdict does not matter. Nothing matters but Zimmerman was carrying a gun.

The straitjacket of ideology. However I’m still open to FACTS that would dispute your detailed rendition above.

Lisa

 

[7_Sorrows]

Yes I agree with O’Reilly. What was funny was the next day he read a sample of responses and those who didn’t agree with him, instead of actually positing a different theory and supporting evidence simply called him names. WEAK WEAK WEAK thy name is the Left
If you don’t have evidence, call the person names or set up a straw man to knock down. It’s truly pathetic that their apparent lack of concern over hundreds of deaths of black youth at the hands of other black youth, of the high drop out rate, incarceration and unemployment of blacks, particularly young black males makes a mockery of their cries “Justice for Trayvon.”

Lisa

I didn’t see the responses, but I am encouraged if there are actually liberals who will watch his show. we need to pray for them that one day their eyes will be opened.
people want to ignore the facts about trayvon martin and that he was not the little angel that the media wanted us to think he was. that is why his facebook and tweets were erased so quickly. the prosecution tried to hide many things about trayvon.

 

[adrift]

However I’m still open to FACTS that would dispute your detailed rendition above.

Lisa

I am to looking for something. I want to make it clear I did not write the above. It presented an argument that I had not seen before. When I first posted it, there were no comments. Either because no one read it or there is not counter.

 

[MaryT777]

I didn’t see the responses, but I am encouraged if there are actually liberals who will watch his show. we need to pray for them that one day their eyes will be opened.
people want to ignore the facts about trayvon martin and that he was not the little angel that the media wanted us to think he was. that is why his facebook and tweets were erased so quickly. the prosecution tried to hide many things about trayvon.

I don’t believe anyone is ignoring facts about TM. I don’t believe he was a perfect angel at all; however I’m not sure what the point is about that. That someone was not a little angel does not mean they deserve to end up dead.

GZ was no angel but he’s here to defend himself and TM is not.

 

[MaryT777]

Adrift, I agree. Having read much of the evidence, both allowed and not introduced but available through public sites, along with the video of Martin in the 7/11, along with the maps of each man’s movements that night, before and during the eventual altercation, I see exactly ZERO evidence supporting anything other than the scenerio testified to by multiple witnesses and the eventual conclusion of the jury.

Zimmerman was guilty of:

Noticing a stranger in his neighborhood
Reporting the stranger
Attempting to assess his whereabouts after he fled the initial contact
Defending himself when attacked

And the worst of all…owning and carrying a legal firearm that he was trained and able to use.

Alas for those who simply cannot abide the idea that someone might have a gun, the facts do not matter, Martin’s contribution to his unnecessary and premature death do not matter, and that a jury reached a not guilty verdict does not matter. Nothing matters but Zimmerman was carrying a gun.

The straitjacket of ideology. However I’m still open to FACTS that would dispute your detailed rendition above.

Lisa

I think the issue was should Zimmerman have had a gun to begin with given his run in with assaulting the police and problems with violence in his relationship with his girlfriend.
I have no issues with guns because ‘guns don’t kill people, people do.’

And the fact is Z took his gun and killed TM who is not here to defend himself.
Z is here now to live his life and TM is not even here to give his account.

In another state Z may have been found guilty but that’s the legal system and I have no issue with the acquittal but Z’s actions have consequences and now he can’t help someone because no one wants to be associated with him. No ne wants to end up dead
for no reason like TM did.

That said, we know he could be armed so if we see him we will know to call the police if he is following us around either in his vehicle or on foot.

 

[MaryT777]

But you are not a dangerous person if you do drugs, possess jewelry recently stolen from a nearby home, play around with pistols, and engage in fighting.

Nope, once you are dead, you become an immaculate angel… Welcome to Mary’s world.

Reported. I never said the above.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Again, the real crime was committed by the State of Florida in allowing a concealed weapon to be placed on an amateur law enforcement personnel. GZ was clearly acting as a vigilante. Neighborhood watch personnel ought not to be allowed to profile and follow “suspects!” The sole purpose of neighborhood watch ought to only be allowed to report “suspicious” activity to properly trained law enforcement.

 

[LisaA]

Again, the real crime was committed by the State of Florida in allowing a concealed weapon to be placed on an amateur law enforcement personnel. GZ was clearly acting as a vigilante. Neighborhood watch personnel ought not to be allowed to profile and follow “suspects!” The sole purpose of neighborhood watch ought to only be allowed to report “suspicious” activity to properly trained law enforcement.

I’m really interested in facts rather than your unsubstantiated opinions regarding gun rights. What are the facts in this case?

The state of Florida committed no crime
Zimmerman’s gun was legal and he passed all necessary background checks (did you ever bother to read them, they are quite stringent)
Zimmerman was not acting as a vigilante. He was acting in self defense
Your opinion about Neighborhood Watch is yet another irrelevant opinion not a fact.

To paraphrase Joe Friday, the facts sir, just the facts.

Lisa