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Maximus1
Guest
They don’t disobey. They uphold their oath to the Constitution. You are confused about disobeying boss. That is the dictatorship being claimed.
Opinion: Trump turns the presidency into a dictatorship
- Thread starter LeafByNiggle
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VonDerTann
Guest
Actually it’s a pretty great comparison.
My point is to throw this in the face of people who scream “he’s a dictator!”
My response is multi-facted.
Has he suspended habeas corpus? No.
Can you point to a court order he hasn’t honored? Nope.
All we’ve heard is “he fired some people who disagreed with him!”
…just like any other boss.
My point is to throw this in the face of people who scream “he’s a dictator!”
My response is multi-facted.
Has he suspended habeas corpus? No.
Can you point to a court order he hasn’t honored? Nope.
All we’ve heard is “he fired some people who disagreed with him!”
…just like any other boss.
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Maximus1
Guest
When there is a Court order he pardons. He fired people for doing their jobs with integrity. Upholding their oath to the Constitution. It is to intimidate. If you see wrong, fear, and don’t uphold your oath. That’s his presidential policy. If he could put a head on a spit he would. Let’s see after election day. WHAT YOU NEVER HEARD ONCE WAS FIRE FOR DISAGREEING WITH HIM. NOT ONCE! NOT ONCE!
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VonDerTann
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Hmmm…
Can you please post exactly what oath the IGs take?
My guess is it is the same “oath” most government employees take: None at all.
Seriously, if an IG who was replaced swears an oath of office, please post it.
I knew a man employed as a state IG. He had no oath of office, and the claim “someone is violating their oath of office!” Is usually defeated by asking for the exact oath to be specified (it usually can’t be, because there usually isn’t one).
Can you please post exactly what oath the IGs take?
My guess is it is the same “oath” most government employees take: None at all.
Seriously, if an IG who was replaced swears an oath of office, please post it.
I knew a man employed as a state IG. He had no oath of office, and the claim “someone is violating their oath of office!” Is usually defeated by asking for the exact oath to be specified (it usually can’t be, because there usually isn’t one).
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VonDerTann
Guest
Now you’re just emoting.
The pardon power is used for crimes - no more, no less, and has no applicability to anything we are discussing.
The pardon power is used for crimes - no more, no less, and has no applicability to anything we are discussing.
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Maximus1
Guest
Are you being slick? An IG takes two oaths to the Constitution. One as a member of the Bar and another as a Federal IG. I took one of those myself. Lol.
If you admit you are wrong about everything I will retrieve citations. It has to be worth it. That should be easy. I will wait for your commitment.
If you admit you are wrong about everything I will retrieve citations. It has to be worth it. That should be easy. I will wait for your commitment.
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Maximus1
Guest
You seem to think that Trump giving away our top secrets is ok because he can. It is the classic Trump defense.
So what he gave away the launch codes. He deemed it prudent and declassified them. THATS NOT ILLEGAL.
It is a great argument. Lolp
So what he gave away the launch codes. He deemed it prudent and declassified them. THATS NOT ILLEGAL.
It is a great argument. Lolp
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VonDerTann
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When attorneys are sworn into a bar they take a general oath to uphold the constitution of their state.
If there is some oath every single deputy federal IG takes, I’d love to see it.
But now, let’s circle back. Your claim seems to be that these folks were fired for “upholding their oath,” whatever that is.
Trump took a similar oath when sworn in, and I have no doubt he believes he fulfills it by firing these people.
But as I asked, and as no one can answer: is there some specific law that places these folks beyond Trump’s firing power? There clearly isn’t, because lawmakers are demanding 7-year terms.
So it appears my underlying premise was correct.
If there is some oath every single deputy federal IG takes, I’d love to see it.
But now, let’s circle back. Your claim seems to be that these folks were fired for “upholding their oath,” whatever that is.
Trump took a similar oath when sworn in, and I have no doubt he believes he fulfills it by firing these people.
But as I asked, and as no one can answer: is there some specific law that places these folks beyond Trump’s firing power? There clearly isn’t, because lawmakers are demanding 7-year terms.
So it appears my underlying premise was correct.
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VonDerTann
Guest
Most federal attorneys are simply employees at will, who can be removed for any reason or no reason at all, provided the reason is not so bad as to violate public policy (i.e. Gender, race,
Etc.)
For what it’s worth, I have in fact tried to determine if the fired IGs had oaths of office. I can’t determine it. I could be wrong - but it’s irrelevant, because their oaths weren’t related to their firing.
The fact remains - Trump could fire these people; he had the right; he exercised it.
Etc.)
For what it’s worth, I have in fact tried to determine if the fired IGs had oaths of office. I can’t determine it. I could be wrong - but it’s irrelevant, because their oaths weren’t related to their firing.
The fact remains - Trump could fire these people; he had the right; he exercised it.
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silentwitness
Guest
A dictator doesn’t allow a fair election that could vote him out, nor does he respect term limits.
When President Trump acts in this way then we can sensibly talk about dictatorship.
Until then, this is simply attempted character assassination.
When President Trump acts in this way then we can sensibly talk about dictatorship.
Until then, this is simply attempted character assassination.
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Maximus1
Guest
They got fired for upholding their oath( s).
Attorneys, just like me, swear an oath to uphold the Federal and state Constitution. So just ask. Don’t keep guessing wrong.
My offer to locate the Federal Oath statute stands. You commit to what I said and I will fetch it.
The Offices of Inspector generals are created by Congress
( statute). The office holders are appointed and confirmed. Then they swear an oath. TO THE CONSTITUTION. The statutes also provide for assistant IGs.
Your question does not address the wrongdoing. Or the impeachment remedy intended for violations of acts of Congress.
Presently Senator Grassley has sent Trump a request for written response by Trump. He must explain his grounds for firing the last AG. They must comply with the statute.
Attorneys, just like me, swear an oath to uphold the Federal and state Constitution. So just ask. Don’t keep guessing wrong.
My offer to locate the Federal Oath statute stands. You commit to what I said and I will fetch it.
The Offices of Inspector generals are created by Congress
( statute). The office holders are appointed and confirmed. Then they swear an oath. TO THE CONSTITUTION. The statutes also provide for assistant IGs.
Your question does not address the wrongdoing. Or the impeachment remedy intended for violations of acts of Congress.
Presently Senator Grassley has sent Trump a request for written response by Trump. He must explain his grounds for firing the last AG. They must comply with the statute.
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Maximus1
Guest
No it isn’t. Dictatorship goes beyond term limits. Putin is a dictator in terms of totalitarian actions. He manipulates pretenses.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That’s also what every dictator does.
The term “drain the swamp” is ambiguous enough that you can interpret however you want. It was a slogan. The people did not specifically approve of the slogan, much less the interpretation that leads one to think that it justifies everything he might do.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
No, he hasn’t because he hasn’t had an occasion to benefit from the suspension of habeas corpus. Based on his past history he will “do whatever it takes to seize his moment”, if would help him personally in some way. (#ErnestodelaCruz)
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VonDerTann
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Max, some thoughts:
–A general oath to “defend the Constitution” is, with due respect, meaningless in the context of this debate, because Trump took one too, and, as I indicated, he surely believes he fulfills it by firing these folks.
–I would be curious EXACTLY what oath deputy IGs (supposedly) take, under the theory that lots of people think government employees take an “oath of office” when they don’t. I can only tell you, I knew a state IG who had no such oath.
–I know I’m like a broken record: No one can point to any law Trump broke by firing these folks. Not “it’s not usually done this way!” Not “how dare he!” Not emotional “he fired these folks for following their oath of office that I keep threatening to cite!”
Because without that - and such law clearly doesn’t exist - these IGs are just employees at will who can be removed for any reason or no reason at all, provided its not so bad as to violate public policy. One would think that as an attorney you’d recognize that.
–A general oath to “defend the Constitution” is, with due respect, meaningless in the context of this debate, because Trump took one too, and, as I indicated, he surely believes he fulfills it by firing these folks.
–I would be curious EXACTLY what oath deputy IGs (supposedly) take, under the theory that lots of people think government employees take an “oath of office” when they don’t. I can only tell you, I knew a state IG who had no such oath.
–I know I’m like a broken record: No one can point to any law Trump broke by firing these folks. Not “it’s not usually done this way!” Not “how dare he!” Not emotional “he fired these folks for following their oath of office that I keep threatening to cite!”
Because without that - and such law clearly doesn’t exist - these IGs are just employees at will who can be removed for any reason or no reason at all, provided its not so bad as to violate public policy. One would think that as an attorney you’d recognize that.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
But a really smart dictator (and remember, Trump has declared himself a genius) would accomplish the same thing while upholding the appearance of fair elections. Trump’s supporters are doing just that by making it harder for those who oppose Trump to vote.
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VonDerTann
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Trump IS a genius. He managed to win the presidency with zero experience when all the pundits laughed at him, and run a remarkably wonderful presidency despite . . . the opposition . . . dogging his literally every step. He’s clearly got a lot more on the ball than lots and lots of haters.
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VonDerTann
Guest
LOL! “Trump hasn’t done something bad yet that another president did…BUT HE WILL!!!”
–You can’t make up this stuff.
–You can’t make up this stuff.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
If you are going to make such a big deal of the fact that Trump didn’t suspend habeas corpus, I am justified in pointing out that he has not yet been tempted to do it, so as a point of comparison with Lincoln, it is an irrelevancy.
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silentwitness
Guest
. . . . What gets me is when they try to dress it up as Christian goodness. This more than anything is why the church has bled members and respect in the preceding decades and looks like it will continue to do so.
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