Opinions needed

[julietsmom]

My wife has a friend who is homosexual. We have both known this individual for 30+ years, although my wife was much closer to him than I throughout the years. We attended a party at his house several years ago on behalf of my wife’s cousin who had been fighting cancer for about seven years at that point. I had no problem going to this party on behalf of her cousin. My wife’s cousin died this year and we all attended the wake and social gathering afterwards.
We have recently been invited to a Christmas party to this mans house that he now shares with another man. Part of my feeling is that going to the party is saying that we not only accept but condone his homosexual lifestyle. There are other friends of ours that will be at the party that I would like to see. I have no problem with homosexuals in general (love the man, hate the sin philosophy) but I would like some (name removed by moderator)ut from others on this situation. Thanks in advance.

 

[Rivera]

Just my two cents here: If you don’t have young impressionable kids attending with you, I say go and be an example of Christian charity. You don’t have to say things that condone the lifestyle or praise them for being gay. Be kind and gracious.

good luck,
n

 

[Tom]

juliet(name removed by moderator):

My wife has a friend who is homosexual. We have recently been invited to a Christmas party to this mans house that he now shares with another man. Part of my feeling is that going to the party is saying that we not only accept but condone his homosexual lifestyle. There are other friends of ours that will be at the party that I would like to see. I have no problem with homosexuals in general (love the man, hate the sin philosophy) but I would like some (name removed by moderator)ut from others on this situation. Thanks in advance.

This is of course a very personal decision, but, since you have asked for “opinions”. Would you decline the invitation if they were a heterosexual couple “living together”? Is a heterosexual couple “living in sin” any better than the homosexual couple? If you feel the homosexual couple is worse, I’d have to say you’re being judgmental towards the people, we are ALL sinners, God will decide who has sinned more gravely. If you’d decline the heterosexual couple’s invitation based on their lifestyle as well, definitely decline the invitation.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

We have neighbors who are a gay couple. Very nice people. They invited us to their Christmas party last year. We decided not to go for two reasons:

1. We have young children and we don’t want them to have any confusion about our acceptance of their lifestyle. It’s confusing enough that they see them as just another nice couple living on our street. We need to make a distinction between charity and approval.
2. We felt like it would be ok to go if we were doing it as witnesses to morality. But what if a situation arose where we had to either speak up (which might be seen as unappreciative of our hosts) about our views on homosexuality or come off as approving it (ie. if their friends start talking about what a cute couple they are. Or if they start telling the story of the time they were at the gay pride parade … etc). We realized that we would be caught between a rock and a hard place. What do you do, surprise and offend your hosts by informing them and all their guests that you think they are being sinful? Or keep the peace at the party and sinfully condone homosexual behavior? We decided that a Party at their house was not a good place to deal with this dilemma, and so decided not to go.

Now we are not friends with them, more of aquaintances. I suppose if we were real friends, they would already know our views on that topic anyway. So in that case, if they still wanted us to come to their party, we’d be more willing since we wouldn’t be surprising them with our viewpoint and I wouldn’t be worried about offending them.

 

[puzzleannie]

Once you start limiting your circle of friends to those whose lives coincide with your own moral beliefs in every way, you end up with a very small circle of friends, and you also have the problem of what do do about relatives who you can’t cut out of your life.

I would be guided by the behavior of Jesus, who left no doubt about his condemnation of sinful acts and conditions, but who also left no doubt about his love for the sinners, and acceptance of the hospitality, for the very purpose of converting them through his very presence. you are Christ present in the world. That does not mean you preach with your mouth and give unsolicited comments or criticisms of people and their choices, but it does mean you respond accurately and lovingly about Church moral teaching when you are asked a specific question.

If someone who knows your views deliberately puts you on the spot, you respond politely but firmly, and never let the line between loving the sinner and hating the sin be crossed.

 

[martino]

I dont think you should attend because presence definitley gives the impression of approval and that causes scandal for others. It is a sacrifice for you I know, because I am sure you would have a great time if you went, but your obligation to your faith comes before your obligation to have fun. There is absolutely no way for you to attend without giving the impression of approval and because of this it would be wrong for you to go. I was going to say “in my opinion” but I actually think this is Church teaching and not merely my opinion.

 

[Island_Oak]

ThyKingdomCome:

1. We felt like it would be ok to go if we were doing it as witnesses to morality.

Ah, yes…that favorite of all party planners…the couple who comes as the sole beacon of morality. No party, hoilday or otherwise, is complete without them.

But what if a situation arose where we had to either speak up (which might be seen as unappreciative of our hosts) about our views on homosexuality or come off as approving it (ie. if their friends start talking about what a cute couple they are. Or if they start telling the story of the time they were at the gay pride parade … etc). We realized that we would be caught between a rock and a hard place. What do you do, surprise and offend your hosts by informing them and all their guests that you think they are being sinful? Or keep the peace at the party and sinfully condone homosexual behavior?

How about treat it like any other inappropriate conversation topic…politely excuse yourself with a smile in search of another one of the fabulous appetizers.

We decided that a Party at their house was not a good place to deal with this dilemma, and so decided not to go.

Good call.

Now we are not friends with them, more of aquaintances. I suppose if we were real friends, they would already know our views on that topic anyway.

Ya think? Don’t suppose they might just have guessed at what your views were and, being overstocked with witnesses to morality, your invite to this year’s party got ‘lost’ in the mail?

 

[jzepi]

Island Oak:

Ah, yes…that favorite of all party planners…the couple who comes as the sole beacon of morality. No party, hoilday or otherwise, is complete without them.

… etc …

This is EXACTLY the kind of sarcastic vitriol we are very likely to encounter when we stand up for the moral teachings of Jesus Christ (i.e. the Catholic Church).

Be prepared.

I wouldn’t go to the party if I were you. There are other ways to show kindness. We are not obligated to put ourselves into situations where we have to choose between superficial gaiety and subtly denying our faith, even sinning, by not warning a person that their actions have grave spiritual repercussions (not to mention setting a bad example for others).

It’s not easy - most people are not up to this kind of witnessing - but it is important that people find the truth. Somebody in my family came out of the gay lifestyle because of brave people who very tactfully and politely but firmly declared Catholic belief.

And it is important. Believe you me, if this person ends up in Heaven instead of Hell (and let’s face it, that is a very real possibility), they will be eternally (yeah eternally) grateful that somebody, instead of sitting on their *ss eating appetizers, was brave enough to at least not confirm them in something they knew was immoral, so that they might be led to choose Jesus Christ, and not some well-intentioned but way wrong definition of “love”.

God bless you and your wife, brother - I will pray for your situation. I thank God for His grace that has moved you to take this seriously.

 

[Island_Oak]

We are not obligated to put ourselves into situations where we have to choose between superficial gaiety and subtly denying our faith, even sinning, by not warning a person that their actions have grave spiritual repercussions…

…Believe you me, if this person ends up in Heaven instead of Hell …they will be eternally (yeah eternally) grateful that somebody, instead of sitting on their *ss eating appetizers, was brave enough to at least not confirm them in something they knew was immoral…

Nothing quite says “party” to me like stern warnings of “grave spiritual repercussions” while I’m sitting on my *ss eating appetizers!!! Have a drink (please!) and RELAX while I ponder my eternal gratitude.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Island Oak:

Ah, yes…that favorite of all party planners…the couple who comes as the sole beacon of morality. No party, hoilday or otherwise, is complete without them.

How about treat it like any other inappropriate conversation topic…politely excuse yourself with a smile in search of another one of the fabulous appetizers.

Good call.

Ya think? Don’t suppose they might just have guessed at what your views were and, being overstocked with witnesses to morality, your invite to this year’s party got ‘lost’ in the mail?

Have you ever considered that if they are friends they would respect your Catholic Faith and not start inappropriate conversations?That assuming you told them.You must never be ashamed of what the Church teaches.I think these people are trying to do the appropriate thing,there is really no need for sarcasm. I also,think MOST people will respect our beliefs if we have the courage to share them.The concern I have is in order to be represent Christ you have be around people.:twocents:

 

[Elizabeth_B]

“I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people, not at all referring to the immoral of this world or the greedy and robbers or idolaters; for you would then have to leave the world. But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person.” 1 Cor 5:9-11

This is a tough one…but, Christ himself told us it would be tough. Our culture tells us that loving the least of our brothers means accepting/tolerating his sins.

 

[SweetPea]

Oh, you think gay people are “the least” of us? How very charitable of you; and you’re doing “the least” SUCH a big favor by condesending to favor them with your precious attention.

Go to the party, have drink or two, enjoy the snacks and good company, have a good time, and don’t worry about it. I’m sure your gay neighbor and his terminally ill partner won’t suddenly tear their clothes off and start making love in public (if they do, poliitely excuse yourself and leave).

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Hey, you live in your house, don’t you?
Seriously, though, it is a tricky business to start performing a moral litmus test before you visit someone’s house. Jesus certainly didn’t do that. If there is something criminal going on in that house, call the cops. If they don’t treat their guests with dignity–for instance, subjecting you to an acceptance-of-everthing-they-do litmus test-- or are rude guests themselves, cut them out of your social circle.
If you will only let the spiritually perfect entertain you, though, you won’t be getting out much.
As for your kids, think of how you are going to explain “Yes, honey, God loves everyone. He just doesn’t go to everyone’s parties.”

 

[jzepi]

Island Oak:

Nothing quite says “party” to me like stern warnings of “grave spiritual repercussions” while I’m sitting on my *ss eating appetizers!!! Have a drink (please!) and RELAX while I ponder my eternal gratitude.

Wow - r u sure I am the one who needs to relax ?

Maybe you should go to “party.com” instead of “catholic.com”

( PS: you’re headed for hell )

 

[fix]

jzepi:

This is EXACTLY the kind of sarcastic vitriol we are very likely to encounter when we stand up for the moral teachings of Jesus Christ (i.e. the Catholic Church).

Be prepared.

I wouldn’t go to the party if I were you. There are other ways to show kindness. We are not obligated to put ourselves into situations where we have to choose between superficial gaiety and subtly denying our faith, even sinning, by not warning a person that their actions have grave spiritual repercussions (not to mention setting a bad example for others).

It’s not easy - most people are not up to this kind of witnessing - but it is important that people find the truth. Somebody in my family came out of the gay lifestyle because of brave people who very tactfully and politely but firmly declared Catholic belief.

And it is important. Believe you me, if this person ends up in Heaven instead of Hell (and let’s face it, that is a very real possibility), they will be eternally (yeah eternally) grateful that somebody, instead of sitting on their *ss eating appetizers, was brave enough to at least not confirm them in something they knew was immoral, so that they might be led to choose Jesus Christ, and not some well-intentioned but way wrong definition of “love”.

God bless you and your wife, brother - I will pray for your situation. I thank God for His grace that has moved you to take this seriously.

Great post. It is always good to read there are serious Catholics out there witnessing to the truth as opposed to so many faux Catholics who take their cues from secular culture rather than the Church. Why would anyone want to attend a party hosted by folks whose entire lives are lived in opposition to the faith? Authentic charity is not being lukewarm or pretending to go along to get along. Standing for Christ means accepting the cross.

Only in very recent times would one assume a “gay couple” hosting a party was a reasonable event to attend. God help us.

 

[Island_Oak]

jzepi:

Wow - r u sure I am the one who needs to relax ?

Maybe you should go to “party.com” instead of “catholic.com”

( PS: you’re headed for hell )

Only if you’re driving and I have dibs on shotgun so I don’t miss a word of your prescient insights!

 

[BLB_Oregon]

fix:

Why would anyone want to attend a party hosted by folks whose entire lives are lived in opposition to the faith? Authentic charity is not being lukewarm or pretending to go along to get along. Standing for Christ means accepting the cross.

He told the Pharisees that “tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the Kingdom of Heaven before you.” He asked a woman whom he knew to have had five husbands and to be currently living with a man not her husband to draw water for him to drink. He engaged her in conversation–and not to bawl her out for how she was conducting her life, but to tell her there was something better to life than she imagined. He went to the house of Zacheus the tax collector to dine. His conduct on the Sabbath scandalized many in his faith. The list, of course, goes on and on, and in front of the Sanhedrin it did.

Where did we get the idea that “standing for Christ” means perfectly following the rules and avoiding contact with sinners? Jesus never taught that, and in fact did quite the opposite.

 

[fix]

BLB_Oregon:

He told the Pharisees that “tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the Kingdom of Heaven before you.” He asked a woman whom he knew to have had five husbands and to be currently living with a man not her husband to draw water for him to drink. He engaged her in conversation–and not to bawl her out for how she was conducting her life, but to tell her there was something better to life than she imagined. He went to the house of Zacheus the tax collector to dine. His conduct on the Sabbath scandalized many in his faith. The list, of course, goes on and on, and in front of the Sanhedrin it did.

Where did we get the idea that “standing for Christ” means perfectly following the rules and avoiding contact with sinners? Jesus never taught that, and in fact did quite the opposite.

The sin of the pharisees was hypocrisy. They pretended to be devout, but were not. Christ told the people to do EXACTLY what the pahrisees tell you to do, but do not act as they do.

If by going to a party hosted by a notorius sinner one has the notion they would try and evangelize then I think that is a noble idea. If one would be scandalized, or cause scandal, then they should not go.

Christ ate with sinners to call them to repentence.I never said to avoid sinners. Where do you get the idea Christ’s “rules” are separate from our faith?

 

[jzepi]

BLB_Oregon:

…

Where did we get the idea that “standing for Christ” means perfectly following the rules and avoiding contact with sinners? Jesus never taught that, and in fact did quite the opposite.

I agree that we need not and probably should not avoid all contact with sinners.

I think the point of contention is how to have this contact while remaining a faithful witness to the seriousness of sin and its devastating effects. Everyone does this in their own way, according to their personality, relationship with the person, etc. But if one believes in the possibility of hell and the Catholic teaching about it, charity demands that we find SOME way to do it.

Jesus’ encounters with sinners often ended in the sinners’ repentance. He did not maintain (to my knowledge) close relationships with unrepentant sinners, and He was actually quite intolerant of sinfulness whenever He encountered it. He never shrank from preaching to the Pharisees, but we have to realize not everybody has the eloquence of Jesus, and also that sometimes we just have to choose friends who will not hinder us in living for the Lord or give a bad witness, reinforcing scandal for the many other impressionable people in society (the young and even the not-so-young). Our actions do set an example for others, even when we don’t realize it, and especially when it is known that we are Christians.

I guess this subject touches a nerve for me because I know people who have left the actively gay life and how powerfully it has helped them to do so.

 

[fix]

jzepi:

I agree that we need not and probably should not avoid all contact with sinners.

I think the point of contention is how to have this contact while remaining a faithful witness to the seriousness of sin and its devastating effects. Everyone does this in their own way, according to their personality, relationship with the person, etc. But if one believes in the possibility of hell and the Catholic teaching about it, charity demands that we find SOME way to do it.

Jesus’ encounters with sinners often ended in the sinners’ repentance. He did not maintain (to my knowledge) close relationships with unrepentant sinners, and He was actually quite intolerant of sinfulness whenever He encountered it. He never shrank from preaching to the Pharisees, but we have to realize not everybody has the eloquence of Jesus, and also that sometimes we just have to choose friends who will not hinder us in living for the Lord or give a bad witness, reinforcing scandal for the many other impressionable people in society (the young and even the not-so-young). Our actions do set an example for others, even when we don’t realize it, and especially when it is known that we are Christians.

I guess this subject touches a nerve for me because I know people who have left the actively gay life and how powerfully it has helped them to do so.

A very fine post. We often tend to take a few snippets of the bible and try impose our interpretation as the only one and binding in every circumstance. Jesus did eat with sinners, does that mean we are obligated to go out of our way to introduce all manner of immorality into the lives of our family under the pretense that Christ ate with sinners? There is such a thing as discernment and scandal.