OReilly - Bishops fail to address Christmas

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Elzee

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Anyone see Bill OReilly last night? He had Fr McBrien on (never heard of him ) and the young priest from the Leg of Christ who has become a semi-regular Church rep on Fox (usually pretty good but I was disappointed in him last night).

Anyway, Bill made the point that the Bishops and Priests in the U.S. have been, for the most part, silent on the ‘war on Christmas’ and he is having a hard time finding a Bishop or Cardinal to come on his show next week to talk about it. He finally said he found one - but I can’t remember his name - anybody remember?

He commented that evangelical pastors are very vocal on this issue and the Catholic Church should be taking the lead on this. As he put it to the Leg. of Christ priest: *“if you can’t stick up for Baby Jesus, who can you stick up for?”
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Something Fr. McBrien said bothered me, but I have to admit I also agree…he said that the evangelical Christian is becoming the ‘face of Christianity’ in the U.S. as opposed to Catholicism (or mainstream Protestants).

I guess this thread is 2-fold:
Why do you think the U.S.Bishops and priests haven’t been more vocal?
Do you think Fr. McBrien is right about the ‘face of Christianity’?

I emailed Bill with a couple Bishops I wish he would ask to be on his show - maybe if you can think of some you can send them to him too. I hope our Church is well-represented next week on his show, but I’m worried it won’t be.
 
I don’t know about the reason the Catholic church isn’t more vocal.

I do agree that evangilical Christianity is becoming the face of American Christianity. I have nothing against evangilical Christianity but there seems to be a lack of acceptance for other viewpoints among them.(I am not saying that this is true of all evangilicals) You hear more of Christians that are to the right of an issue then those who are more moderate. The danger in this is that it gives the general populance the impression that we are all lock step in agreement on every issue when we aren’t.

I also think that it accidentally alienates a lot of people, who think that all Christians are fundamentalists, so that they close their minds to Christ’s message.
 
I also saw the segment. I agree the young priest was not too articulate last night. McBrien is the dissident priest from Notre Dame. It makes me mad when OReilly has him on. He usually is very vocal agaist Rome. Last night he wasn’t so bad.

My sermon last Sunday was about putting Christ back into Christmas. I don’t think it is the Catholic style to go public and go media. However, perhaps we need some new spokespeople for the church.
 
Evangelical Christianity has always been the face of American Christianity – or at least, it often has, for much of American history. (And by “evangelical”, I mean Christianity that seeks to evangelize actively.)

I don’t get this war on Christmas thing. Is it a California phenomenon?
 
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Fitz:
I also saw the segment. I agree the young priest was not too articulate last night. McBrien is the dissident priest from Notre Dame. It makes me mad when OReilly has him on. He usually is very vocal agaist Rome. Last night he wasn’t so bad.
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Okay, now I remember hearing a little about McBrien - at least his name. I guess what threw me off is he actually seemed okay last night. He surprised me when he said that American Bishops aren’t saying anything because they look to Rome for direction…that’s about the* last *thing I would have said since it seems our U.S. Bishps like to do their own thing!! But, maybe he meant it as a way to point the blame in the direction of Rome…who knows.
 
Ahimsa, it’s more a problem in liberal areas of the country. Yes, California is certainly one, but also the Northeast is infected with lots of liberals. You and I live in the Bible belt, so we probably wouldn’t see it except in those places that are influenced by the aforementioned areas. They have addressed it, for the most part, and those areas (some big retailers) have changed their tune pretty quick!
 
Personally, I think the reason that the Church leaders have been silent is the uproar is grounded in the commercial aspects of the season. Frankly, if a major retail chain wants to only say “Happy Holidays”, I couldn’t care less. I don’t take my theological direction from Sears. The Bishops have a much more important agenda.

I know some will say this is related to the agenda to remove God from our lives and they may be right. But I’m more concerned with the nature of the video games they are selling that promote rape, violence, and carnage than whether or not the sign says “Merry Christmas.” In fact, I think in some ways the use of “Christmas” in the face of the debauchery they are marketing would be more irreverant.

And maybe, with the retailers separation of Christmas and their marketing efforts, Christians will take their lead and focus more on the Incarnation and less on what is under the tree. Now that would be a miracle!
 
I think that that the Bishops are still gun shy from the assault they have suffered as a result of the abuse scandal. Such sins always causes lasting damage and I think it is going to be years before the Church in this country regains its voice.

Beyond that I am sure that I would call it a war on Christmas, I think there has been a war on Christianity for many years and Christmas is simply another battleground in that war. Aetheist have targeted Christianity for years because they know we are their real enemy.

BTW, my local Priests did a great job of supporting Christmas in a recent homily.
 
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Elzee:
Anyone see Bill OReilly last night? He had Fr McBrien on (never heard of him ) and the young priest from the Leg of Christ who has become a semi-regular Church rep on Fox (usually pretty good but I was disappointed in him last night).

Anyway, Bill made the point that the Bishops and Priests in the U.S. have been, for the most part, silent on the ‘war on Christmas’ and he is having a hard time finding a Bishop or Cardinal to come on his show next week to talk about it. He finally said he found one - but I can’t remember his name - anybody remember?

He commented that evangelical pastors are very vocal on this issue and the Catholic Church should be taking the lead on this. As he put it to the Leg. of Christ priest: *“if you can’t stick up for Baby Jesus, who can you stick up for?”
*
Something Fr. McBrien said bothered me, but I have to admit I also agree…he said that the evangelical Christian is becoming the ‘face of Christianity’ in the U.S. as opposed to Catholicism (or mainstream Protestants).

I guess this thread is 2-fold:
Why do you think the U.S.Bishops and priests haven’t been more vocal?
Do you think Fr. McBrien is right about the ‘face of Christianity’?

I emailed Bill with a couple Bishops I wish he would ask to be on his show - maybe if you can think of some you can send them to him too. I hope our Church is well-represented next week on his show, but I’m worried it won’t be.
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Evangelical Christianity has always been the face of Christianity in the U.S. The U.S. is evangelical in its roots and has always been a fundamentally protestant country.

I don’t know what to think. I think O’Reilly likes to run his mouth a lot. Has he really done an exhaustive study of this issue? I doubt it. He’s an entertainer and a journalist. And what would the Bishops say anyway? Christmas has always been, and always will be, a Catholic liturgical holiday. Society can make war on Christmas all it wants but it isn’t doing anything unless it forbids the Christmas Mass to be said. To be honest, its not clear to me why protestants should celebrate Christmas, since most don’t accept the Catholic liturgical calendar.
 
Dread,

Protestants (many of them) do not even know we have something called a liturgical calendar. Christmas is celebrated on Decemeber 25th and they celebrate our Lord’s birth. They did give a hoot about the Catholic calendar.
 
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Ahimsa:
I don’t get this war on Christmas thing. Is it a California phenomenon?
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I wish it was only California. It’s ongoing all over this country. It’s just a visible symptom of a much bigger problem, secular forces trying to take apart this country’s Christian culture.
 
The worrisome thing is trying to make religion a private relationship with no business in the public square.
 
I just sent this email to BO’s address:

Bill,

Attacking the Bishops of your own faith is not helpful. The Bishops realize that the war is on Christianity, not on Christmas. The Bishops know that to win this war they must win back souls to Christ…worrying about how secular stores behave will not help cure the culture, winning souls will. Respectfully, you might try being helpful to your own faith and try to see a larger picture.
 
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Elzee:
He surprised me when he said that American Bishops aren’t saying anything because they look to Rome for direction.
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:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Fallen on floor…stich in side…drool on keyboard…help…please!

Besides, they’ve had direction! The Holy Father jumped all over consumerism at Christmas. Wouldn’t that be a good place to start?
 
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Elzee:
Anyway, Bill made the point that the Bishops and Priests in the U.S. have been, for the most part, silent on the ‘war on Christmas’ and he is having a hard time finding a Bishop or Cardinal to come on his show next week to talk about it.
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Perhaps they are silent because ithere is no "war on Christmas’.

Rather than focusing on the reason for the season, the so-called war is focused on the commercial hoopla of Christmastime. I think this is part of the same mentality that favors closing churches on Christmas so that people can stay home and have private family time opening gifts.

Christ is the reason for Christmas. It doesn’t matter if someone says "Happy Holidays " or if they say “Merry Christmas”. What matters is that we remember and celebrate Christ’s birth - and the greeting of a store employee isn’t going to change the reverance I have for Christmas.
 
Guar Fan:
Perhaps they are silent because ithere is no "war on Christmas’.

Rather than focusing on the reason for the season, the so-called war is focused on the commercial hoopla of Christmastime. I think this is part of the same mentality that favors closing churches on Christmas so that people can stay home and have private family time opening gifts.

Christ is the reason for Christmas. It doesn’t matter if someone says "Happy Holidays " or if they say “Merry Christmas”. What matters is that we remember and celebrate Christ’s birth - and the greeting of a store employee isn’t going to change the reverance I have for Christmas.
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With all due respect, I think you are being a little naive on some of this.

This little tiff over Christmas is just a symptom of the bigger problem that is gripping this country, the gradual elimination of our christian culture by a small vocal minority. Many Christians have decided to “draw the line in the sand” over this Christmas business in an effort to stem the tide against the bigger problem.
 
I am pleased O’Riley continues to speak out about this issue. I am annoyed when he has on Father Mcbrien who has had his book condemned by the Vatican.

I noticed the political correctness years ago before I returned to the Church when i saw the Christmas show at radio city music hall. They did everything but say the name Jesus Christ and that annoyed me. If I remember correctly they may have said Baby christmas which in my opinion is not the same thing.
 
O’Reilly always trots out McBrien on Catholic issues. Maybe it’s some kind of Irish simpatico thing. I remember he had him on with Father Pavone regarding whether it was ethical for a Catholic to vote for a pro-abort candidate. Of course McBrien took the position that it was. Neither let Father Pavone get a word in edgewise.

Personally I cringe when O’Reilly (or Hannity) discusses or “defends” Christianity. He keeps asserting (in his defense of it) that those who aren’t Christian can just view Jesus as a “philosopher” which is ridiculous. If Christ were a philosopher he’d have to explain WHY the meek shall inherit the earth, etc. Christianity is about who Christ is. If he’s not who he said he is his teachings are meaningless. He didn’t found a school of thought, he proclaimed Truth based upon his Authority. It was accepted or it wasn’t. Neither friend, foe or neutral can call Christ a philosopher. Silly “defense” on O’Reilly’s part.

Now Limbaugh’s a different story! Whenever he brings up Christianity he begins and ends (sympathetically) with the Catholic Church. He quoted Chesterton a while back! Anyone who’s reading Chesterton is near conversion! Agree with Limbaugh or not, he’s got a first rate, very logical mind which very often can lead a person to the Church. All of his mentors are Catholics-Buckley, Bennet, Scalia, etc. Heard him say that the greatest man in his lifetime was JP2! You’d think he’d have said Reagan (Hannity would have). Have a feeling that his divorces are holding him back.
 
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MarkR:
Now Limbaugh’s a different story! Whenever he brings up Christianity he begins and ends (sympathetically) with the Catholic Church. He quoted Chesterton a while back! Anyone who’s reading Chesterton is near conversion! Agree with Limbaugh or not, he’s got a first rate, very logical mind which very often can lead a person to the Church. All of his mentors are Catholics-Buckley, Bennet, Scalia, etc. Heard him say that the greatest man in his lifetime was JP2! You’d think he’d have said Reagan (Hannity would have). Have a feeling that his divorces are holding him back.
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What a great double-header it would be if Bush and Limbaugh came home in the same year! Then we could ALL start praying harder for Hannity and O’Reilly.
 
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Orionthehunter:
Personally, I think the reason that the Church leaders have been silent is the uproar is grounded in the commercial aspects of the season. Frankly, if a major retail chain wants to only say “Happy Holidays”, I couldn’t care less. I don’t take my theological direction from Sears. The Bishops have a much more important agenda.

I know some will say this is related to the agenda to remove God from our lives and they may be right. But I’m more concerned with the nature of the video games they are selling that promote rape, violence, and carnage than whether or not the sign says “Merry Christmas.” In fact, I think in some ways the use of “Christmas” in the face of the debauchery they are marketing would be more irreverant.
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You should be concerned about removing God more than or just as much as the nature of the videos. Don’t underestimate what the liberals are doing w/ Christmas. One step at a time. That’s the way they see it. They work from the outside to the inner core of Christianity. You think they will stop at Christmas only! Not w/ those hard core liberals! You stop them right from the beginning. It’s like a virus, you don’t wait 'til it gets too deep that it can kill you!
 
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