Origin of the Baptist Church

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James,
The New Testament makes the connection between Circumcision and Baptism; and reveals Baptism is more inclusive than Circumcision. Baptism is for everyone, not just male infants–which was the case in Circumcision under the Old Covenant.

James, it’s not just “some” who say the waters of Baptism will wash away sin. It is the New Testament that says, “And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 2:38-)

You claim Sola Scripture, yet you deny Holy Scripture. Do you have any support, you can post, for your claim that there is no forgiveness of sins upon Baptism?

fine example here above why Sola Scripture doent work for poeple who read all the Bible:o

Again, The New Testament tells us to be Baptized for the Forgiveness of sins. No one is telling you that the blood shed by Christ was unnecessary. Christ accomplished our salvation on the Cross.

In Christ, we are circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ—having been buried with him in baptism, in which we are also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Scripture warns us to see to it that no one takes us captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Colossians 2: 8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Actually, **Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.” **

Notice Jesus did not say let the little children, who have reached an age of understanding, come to me.

Matthew 19: 13 Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people, 14but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.” 15And he laid his hands on them and went away.

Please cite the passage of Scripture that says an infant cannot be baptized; and one must wait until they reach a certain age to be Baptized. And what is that age?

James,
No one is arguing that Christians should be circumcised.

Again, Baptism is the “circumcision made without hands” and is open to all. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

**Galatians 3: **27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

Notice this passage does not say: For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female-except infants are now excluded from entry into Covenant with God- for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Yet, this is what you are claiming.

Again, you are re-writing Scripture.

I await your Biblical support for Sola Scriptura, Sola Fidelis, and Believer’s Baptism, with proof that infants should be excluded from baptism. I asked many posts back. You have ignored this request.

Peace,
Anna
 
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john_portis:
Roy,
Originally Posted by Anna Scott
James,
The New Testament makes the connection between Circumcision and Baptism; and reveals Baptism is more inclusive than Circumcision. Baptism is for everyone, not just male infants–which was the case in Circumcision under the Old Covenant.
And the reason you quoted all of this without writing anything was because???
 
CopticChristian,

When I first came to these forums in 2009; I was still in the Baptist Church, and I believed in Sola Scriptura, and Believer’s Baptism. I finally had to release these beliefs, because I could not support them–not even from Scripture.

I keep hoping some flicker of truth will break through to James. I’ve been where he is. I understand the power of indoctrination. I know that his animosity toward the Catholic Church is probably coming from the pulpit.

There is that the Baptist Church term again. It is a misnomer. There is no such entity as the Baptist Church, never has been. There is no Baptist denomination. There are dozens of groups called Baptist all having different doctrinal differences. Some of them think they are Protestants connected somehow with the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. True Baptists will attest in a heartbeat that they are not part of that reformation, in fact they claim they were in fact persecuted by Protestants as well as the established state church. They just refused to baptize their infants and would re-baptize those who had only infant baptism by churches which were considered to have no authority. Many of these “heretics” burned for such practices, refusing to recant.

The power of indoctrination–is an understatement. I was born to a Catholic/Baptist marriage which was annulled after consumation. Not sure how that happened–for a price perhaps–this was the reign of Pius XII, lots of religious stuff was for sale. I went to parochial school through first communion. Did catechism on Saturday when I went to public school. I have not been affiliated with that religion in 55 years. I still remember the prayers verbatim, having repeated them so many times. I have travelled the roads of Methodism, Mormonism, Agnosticism. Then Jesus saved my soul and pointed me to The Bible and the word of Jesus to the Father: “Sanctify them in Thy Truth, Thy Word is Truth”. This is one of several Sola Scriptura scriptures. I have been in several baptistic groups. I am convinced that the Truth is found among those earnestly contending for The Faith once for all given to the Saints, Jude 3–many of these groups have Baptist in their name. Not all Baptists contend for such things. We must all stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ–we may have to wait until then to see who really has the keys. See I Cor. 3.​

I pray that God will lead James to truth.​

My prayer for you too.

Peace,
Anna
Peace,

James Least
 
Peace,

James Least
You could not have read the bible. I see no example of anyone like you. You do not emulate Jesus. You do not emulate Paul or any of the other Apostles. Jesus told parables and answerd even difficult questions. Paul explained in great detail using the Old Testament. You must either lack the ability, lack the knowledge, lack the understanding or must be reading a different bible with a different gospel. Your actions do not remind me of any of my heros.🤷
 
Peace,

James Least
In Post #87, you quoted me and inserted your response into my quote—which is very confusing and can even make it appear like I wrote it. When you quote someone, don’t write you answer inside the quote.

Your words, James:
here is that the Baptist Church term again. It is a misnomer. There is no such entity as the Baptist Church, never has been. There is no Baptist denomination. There are dozens of groups called Baptist all having different doctrinal differences. Some of them think they are Protestants connected somehow with the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. True Baptists will attest in a heartbeat that they are not part of that reformation, in fact they claim they were in fact persecuted by Protestants as well as the established state church. They just refused to baptize their infants and would re-baptize those who had only infant baptism by churches which were considered to have no authority. Many of these “heretics” burned for such practices, refusing to recant.
The power of indoctrination–is an understatement. I was born to a Catholic/Baptist marriage which was annulled after consumation. Not sure how that happened–for a price perhaps–this was the reign of Pius XII, lots of religious stuff was for sale. I went to parochial school through first communion. Did catechism on Saturday when I went to public school. I have not been affiliated with that religion in 55 years. I still remember the prayers verbatim, having repeated them so many times. I have travelled the roads of Methodism, Mormonism, Agnosticism. Then Jesus saved my soul and pointed me to The Bible and the word of Jesus to the Father: “Sanctify them in Thy Truth, Thy Word is Truth”. This is one of several Sola Scriptura scriptures. I have been in several baptistic groups. I am convinced that the Truth is found among those earnestly contending for The Faith once for all given to the Saints, Jude 3–many of these groups have Baptist in their name. Not all Baptists contend for such things. We must all stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ–we may have to wait until then to see who really has the keys. See I Cor. 3.
James,

You did not respond to even one passage of Scripture I quoted regarding Baptism in my post #79.

And----Once again, you haven’t provided any support, Biblical or otherwise, for Sola Scriptura, Sola Fidelis, and Believer’s Baptism, or proof that infants should be excluded from baptism.

You haven’t proven your “Baptistic Distinctives” (as you call them): and now you say, “There is no such entity as the Baptist Church, never has been. There is no Baptist denomination.” Yet, you claim Baptists (who do not exist) were persecuted.

James, just provide Scriptures to support your claims about Baptism. Don’t ramble on about persecution and what happened to “Baptists,” and what kind of experiences you had. This is all avoidance—You know it. Everyone on this thread knows it.

Again, please provide Scripture to support your belief in “Believer’s Baptism,” through which no sins are forgiven, infants are to be excluded, and one must reach an age of understanding before Baptism. These are your claims, James. You claim you believe in Sola Scriptura—so prove your claims through Scripture.

Peace,
Anna
 
I tell that man one thing keep reading the NT over and over the go to a Catholic Mass keep your eyes and ears open listen to what is being said you will hear some very familiar things especailly from gospels forget what poeple have said and written you might be surprized.AMEN MOST BIBICIAL CHURCH I EVER SAW
 
Peace,

James Least
James,

I do also want to say that I understand what it is like to have most people on a thread disagree with you. It’s happened to me many times, especially when discussing issues of Catholicism with which I disagree. Most of the time, disagreements are voiced respectfully; but still, it’s tough to be the one person disagreeing with many.

What concerns me about your posts is that you seem to use almost every post as an opportunity to insult Catholics–so much “mudslinging”; and you never actually answer a question or provide any support for your beliefs. I’ve stayed in this, hoping you will evaluate your beliefs and consider whether or not they are supported by Scripture.

At this point, unless you are willing to actually engage in discussion of the issues and provide support for your beliefs, there is really no reason to continue. This has just gone on too long.

So, if you want to honestly discuss the issues–answer questions and provide support for your claims/beliefs–I’ll continue. If you want to continue to bash Catholics as an avoidance tactic—our discussion on this thread must come to an end. Please let me know what you want to do.

Peace,
Anna
 
James,

I do also want to say that I understand what it is like to have most people on a thread disagree with you. It’s happened to me many times, especially when discussing issues of Catholicism with which I disagree. Most of the time, disagreements are voiced respectfully; but still, it’s tough to be the one person disagreeing with many.

What concerns me about your posts is that you seem to use almost every post as an opportunity to insult Catholics–so much “mudslinging”; and you never actually answer a question or provide any support for your beliefs. I’ve stayed in this, hoping you will evaluate your beliefs and consider whether or not they are supported by Scripture.

At this point, unless you are willing to actually engage in discussion of the issues and provide support for your beliefs, there is really no reason to continue. This has just gone on too long.

So, if you want to honestly discuss the issues–answer questions and provide support for your claims/beliefs–I’ll continue. If you want to continue to bash Catholics as an avoidance tactic—our discussion on this thread must come to an end. Please let me know what you want to do.

Peace,
Anna
Whenever one opens a debate there is an opportunity, a right for any participant to voice an opinion and offer evidence in support of their viewpoint. This is not a time to be inquisitional: i.e. “You Protestant heretics called Baptist stand up and testify what you believe and where you came from.” “Call me when you get through”. Then you are insulted when someone complies with your request.

The Truth is The Truth whether we believe it or not.

The level of religious paranoia is amazing. If one has the truth, there is no need for all the arbitrary capriciousness.

Jesus to the Father on behalf of his sheep: “Sanctify them in Thy Truth, Thy Word is Truth.”

Many scripture have, in fact, been cited. Apparently they are being filtered through different paradigm. Which is one of my early points: we are on completely different paradigms of Scripture, Revelation, Soteriology, Ecclesiology, Eschatology and most every other ology. We have no common arbitrater to which we all agree. There is no place to agree with an agreed upon infallible source.

I believe this debate has run its course. Que lastima. There are so many things we could have discussed. Our biases will not allow.

Peace,

James

p.s. I have tried to resign from this website–unsuccessfully. Apparently one cannot get out once in–what is that about? Is it possible to excommunicate one’s self? Please explain. Over and out–kind of.
 
Whenever one opens a debate there is an opportunity, a right for any participant to voice an opinion and offer evidence in support of their viewpoint. This is not a time to be inquisitional: i.e. “You Protestant heretics called Baptist stand up and testify what you believe and where you came from.” “Call me when you get through”. Then you are insulted when someone complies with your request.

The Truth is The Truth whether we believe it or not.

The level of religious paranoia is amazing. If one has the truth, there is no need for all the arbitrary capriciousness.

Jesus to the Father on behalf of his sheep: “Sanctify them in Thy Truth, Thy Word is Truth.”

Many scripture have, in fact, been cited. Apparently they are being filtered through different paradigm. Which is one of my early points: we are on completely different paradigms of Scripture, Revelation, Soteriology, Ecclesiology, Eschatology and most every other ology. We have no common arbitrater to which we all agree. There is no place to agree with an agreed upon infallible source.

I believe this debate has run its course. Que lastima. There are so many things we could have discussed. Our biases will not allow.

Peace,

James

p.s. I have tried to resign from this website–unsuccessfully. Apparently one cannot get out once in–what is that about? Is it possible to excommunicate one’s self? Please explain. Over and out–kind of.
It would be impossible to be excommunicated. Catholic Answers is an independent body, separate from the OHCAC and therefore has no jurisdiction over you.

Excommunication would mean you were in communication with the OHCAC and therefore could be excommunicated however this is not the case either.

There is no possibility for an inquisition as this is not an Ecclesial body, just a website, on the other hand many have asked you questions that you have not answered without subjecting you to any particular penalty so I don’t believe that would qualify either.

If you feel you have been insulted say so. People on this website ask for forgiveness. If you don’t believe me I can find my posting where I did.

Opinions, paranoia, capriciousness is rampant in the world, and this website is in the world. The truth to be true must be true for all time and cannot change.

If you have not noticed that beneath each name there are different paradigms and that is the way of the world. We, some, not all meet to greet you and ask you as you say…
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one,
How can we be one, if we cannot dialogue, agree, disagree, try to come to some common understanding of One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism even for babies.

Good bye James.🙂
 
I refuse to be insulted by a mere poiseur and provacateur, James least is just that, and maybe I am just an old curmudgeion, but if I were to meet him I would haul out my trustypair of gloves, slap him in the face and challange him to a duel for wasting my intellectual time. I do this, because I truely believe such people think they are intellectuals and have no life other than that of the internet. Additionally, I doubt that he is not older (intellectually at least) than 15.:rolleyes:
 
Reminds me of Jesus telling Peter to get behind me thou cherish the thing of men instaed of the things of GOD thonk about it:eek:
 
I refuse to be insulted by a mere poiseur and provacateur, James least is just that, and maybe I am just an old curmudgeion, but if I were to meet him I would haul out my trustypair of gloves, slap him in the face and challange him to a duel for wasting my intellectual time. I do this, because I truely believe such people think they are intellectuals and have no life other than that of the internet. Additionally, I doubt that he is not older (intellectually at least) than 15.:rolleyes:
The first posting by James was 09/22/09
Salutations and Greetings,
I am a sixty five year old student of The Word of God interested in discussions with others pro and con regarding Truth–in a civil manner of course.
I have concluded that most religions of the world are various forms of man-made religion. i.e. pagan idolatry.
Have a blessed day,
James Least
I find it interesting that he chose the name James the Least and that his paradigm is

That Way, aka: none of the above

James could have left this blank, Christian, Looking, etc. He chose to describe something. This appears to be separatist. We probably will never know as James has provided us the Least amount of information, has been durogatory, and elusive in answering questions. He is probably troubled and probably does not know what he does. We should forgive him.
 
James,

I do also want to say that I understand what it is like to have most people on a thread disagree with you. It’s happened to me many times, especially when discussing issues of Catholicism with which I disagree. Most of the time, disagreements are voiced respectfully; but still, it’s tough to be the one person disagreeing with many.

What concerns me about your posts is that you seem to use almost every post as an opportunity to insult Catholics–so much “mudslinging”; and you never actually answer a question or provide any support for your beliefs. I’ve stayed in this, hoping you will evaluate your beliefs and consider whether or not they are supported by Scripture.

At this point, unless you are willing to actually engage in discussion of the issues and provide support for your beliefs, there is really no reason to continue. This has just gone on too long.

So, if you want to honestly discuss the issues–answer questions and provide support for your claims/beliefs–I’ll continue. If you want to continue to bash Catholics as an avoidance tactic—our discussion on this thread must come to an end. Please let me know what you want to do.

Peace,
Anna
Whenever one opens a debate there is an opportunity, a right for any participant to voice an opinion and offer evidence in support of their viewpoint. This is not a time to be inquisitional: i.e. “You Protestant heretics called Baptist stand up and testify what you believe and where you came from.” “Call me when you get through”. Then you are insulted when someone complies with your request.

The Truth is The Truth whether we believe it or not.

The level of religious paranoia is amazing. If one has the truth, there is no need for all the arbitrary capriciousness.

Jesus to the Father on behalf of his sheep: “Sanctify them in Thy Truth, Thy Word is Truth.”

Many scripture have, in fact, been cited. Apparently they are being filtered through different paradigm. Which is one of my early points: we are on completely different paradigms of Scripture, Revelation, Soteriology, Ecclesiology, Eschatology and most every other ology. We have no common arbitrater to which we all agree. There is no place to agree with an agreed upon infallible source.

I believe this debate has run its course. Que lastima. There are so many things we could have discussed. Our biases will not allow.

Peace,

James

p.s. I have tried to resign from this website–unsuccessfully. Apparently one cannot get out once in–what is that about? Is it possible to excommunicate one’s self? Please explain. Over and out–kind of.
James,
IOW, you do not want to have a serious discussion of the issues and provide support for your beliefs–that you–yourself–brought into the discussion. That’s certainly your choice; and I will respect it.

Peace to you on your journey,
Anna

Edited to add P.S.

James, no one here has ever said to you, “You Protestant heretics called Baptist stand up and testify what you believe and where you came from.” You are making things up at this point.

In post #87, you stated, “There is that the Baptist Church term again. It is a misnomer. There is no such entity as the Baptist Church, never has been. There is no Baptist denomination.”

So, James, if there are no Baptists, then it is impossible to persecute Baptists in our current day; and impossible to claim persecution in the past—since, as you claim, “There is no such entity as the Baptist Church, never has been.”
 
The first posting by James was 09/22/09

I find it interesting that he chose the name James the Least and that his paradigm is

That Way, aka: none of the above

James could have left this blank, Christian, Looking, etc. He chose to describe something. This appears to be separatist. We probably will never know as James has provided us the Least amount of information, has been durogatory, and elusive in answering questions. He is probably troubled and probably does not know what he does. We should forgive him.
CopticChristian,

I agree with forgiveness as you suggested–and prayers that James will find the truth of our Lord.

Peace,
Anna
 
James,
IOW, you do not want to have a serious discussion of the issues and provide support for your beliefs–that you–yourself–brought into the discussion. That’s certainly your choice; and I will respect it.

Peace to you on your journey,
Anna

Edited to add P.S.

James, no one here has ever said to you, “You Protestant heretics called Baptist stand up and testify what you believe and where you came from.” You are making things up at this point.

In post #87, you stated, “There is that the Baptist Church term again. It is a misnomer. There is no such entity as the Baptist Church, never has been. There is no Baptist denomination.”

So, James, if there are no Baptists, then it is impossible to persecute Baptists in our current day; and impossible to claim persecution in the past—since, as you claim, “There is no such entity as the Baptist Church, never has been.”
One more thing, James,

There is a website entitled, Baptist Distinctives, that explains and defines Baptist beliefs. Link: baptistdistinctives.org/.

This might be helpful to you–or maybe not, since you believe “There is no such entity as the Baptist Church, never has been.”

I do wish you well, James. No hard feelings. 🙂
Anna
 
All those who believe that one must be baptized to be saved–probably 95% or more of Christendom.

Baptism is a good work. It requires a work on the part of the participant and the work of an administrator. See Eph. 2:8-10–it is in the Douay too.

Peace,

James Least
You are describing “OSAS” which is not taught or believed by 95% of Christiandom. The Catholic Church teaches the importance of baptism and prayer…both works…but neither are effective without grace and faith. You have not furnished information about which group of Christians teach that “works” of any description are alone sufficient for salvation. You are welcome to give it another try…no limit:)
 
Be your own authority make up your own rules from Bible if you dont like your church start one of your own just repeat sinners prayer you are good to go forever.Become Baptist use parts of Bible to back your personal beliefs stay away from parts that support other views or beliefs SMOOTH SAILING:rolleyes:
 
You are describing “OSAS” which is not taught or believed by 95% of Christiandom. The Catholic Church teaches the importance of baptism and prayer…both works…but neither are effective without grace and faith. You have not furnished information about which group of Christians teach that “works” of any description are alone sufficient for salvation. You are welcome to give it another try…no limit:)

What percentage of the religious world believed that Jesus was the Christ in A.D. 33? What about today? In the garden of Gethsemane all the disciples forsook Him and fled–the crowd was in a riot frenzy. “Crucify him, Crucify him” they ranted before Pilate. On the same occasion, Peter cursed any connection, denying Jesus three times. Where were the others? At the crucifixion there were a few women and John. Many of the others were probably hiding for their lives.

What is the point? Usually high percentages of any population are wrong about what ever the issue–including pure religion undefiled. This is painfully true where state religions are in control. Shariah Law is controlling a large part of the Moslem world. They are trying to take over–again.

The majority of the religious population of this planet are not Christian. Allah seems to be making inroads of late, even proselyting many Christians, so-called. Allah is not Jehovah.

Just because a small group believe in Grace alone through Faith alone does not make the teaching untrue. Ephesians 2:8-10.

Peace,

James Least
 
Wonder if the Ep C-2 v- 8-10 I poeple I, am suprised to see v-10 included ever thought the same person Paul wrote Phil C-2 V-12-13? just wondering:)
 
. . . .Just because a small group believe in Grace alone through Faith alone does not make the teaching untrue. Ephesians 2:8-10.

Peace,

James Least
James,

I would argue the opposite is true: “a small group believing in Grace alone through Faith alone” does not make the teaching true.

I’m really glad to see you quote a passage of Scripture. The only problem is. . . .Ephesians does not say “grace alone through faith alone.” You added “alone.” You are rewriting Scripture.

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Do you see the word alone in Ephesians 2:8-10? Of course, we both know the answer to that question is “no.”

Actually the phrase faith alone appears only once in the New Testament, in James Chapter 2:

James 2: 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I don’t believe in a “works” salvation. I doubt anyone on this thread does. Catholics certainly do not. My point is that we must consider the New Testament as a whole–actually the whole Bible. Salvation is more than what a few lines of Scripture reveal.

James Chapter two makes a point by saying, “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”–the point being that faith without works is dead.

James 2: 14What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

**Where is the Biblical support for salvation through “Grace alone through Faith alone?”

Are you willing to answer this question? Can you support this through Holy Scripture?**

Peace,
Anna
 
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