Origins of slavery in the US

[BrassAnkles]

I have heard from my Dad and others that the Civil War was about the right of determination, which is true.

Unfortunately the only issue to determine was slavery, and nothing else. If there was no slavery there would have been no Civil War.

I realize some people maybe in the dark a little about this, and some may not want to understand the real cause probably because they want to fly the Confederate flag or celebrate their Souther heritage(like some of my family) but I as a Christian would never fly a Confederate flag because of what it means to many blacks today. However, if all of the southern states that seceded were to make a statement that it was morally wrong to support slavery, this could be of redeeming value.

 

[Deltadeliquent]

This is what I was taught:
American slavery as a practice originated with the Spanish. Although many Indian tribes practiced slavery before Columbus.
The Spanish used the Indians as slaves to work the silver and gold mines. That huge influx of precious metal completely changed the economies of Europe.

The English and other countries began to use slaves to work the fields. Sugar cane in the Caribbean to begin with. The English in particular bought blacks Africans from other black Africans in Africa and brought them over to the new world. Africans were able to survive the brutal heat and humidity better than other folk. Slavery was old and very well established in Africa way before white folk got involved. Later on, some white folk began to cut out the middle man and hunted for slaves themselves instead of simply buying them off Africans.
It wasn’t just the English, though.

Slavery crept north with rice and cotton and tobacco. Sugar and tobacco and a little later cotton were the economic foundation of everything England did as a country during this period. Masses of money was made on the backs of African slaves. The English outlawed the Africa to America trade in 1808, but the breeding and owning and working to death continued. Britain promised freedom to slaves escaping their masters and fighting for them in bothe the original Revolution and the War of 1812(sometimes called the Second American Revolution). The blacks were really hoping the Brits would win and free everyone. Didn’t happen, of course.

When the founding fathers of the US wrote the constitution, they considered outlawing slavery, but didn’t manage it because so much of the economy depended on it. Remember, the U.S. was an agricultural country as were all countries, except maybe England. The Industrial Revolution was just getting started in the textile mills of England…that’s where all the cotton from the South went.

Anyway, many of the founding fathers were slave holders them selves, including Jefferson and Washington. Neither wanted to free their own slaves. In the end, the founding fathers decided to simply not address the issue. They kicked the can down the road.
That can came to rest in the 1860’s. With the Civil War.

The indentured servant thing was a different system. Also, many immigrants got to America by way the prison system in England. Crime, poverty and drunkeness (America used to be the world’sdrunk capital…thus the foundation for the temperance movement) could get you transported. When the US broke politically away from England, they used Australia as a transportation destination in the same way.

The US is what happens when 18th century England gets a fresh start, and Australia is what happens when 19 century England gets a fresh start…

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

The South indisputably seceded over slavery, that they seceded over slavery does not mean the Union waged war to end slavery. The Union waged war to crush the traitor scum, not end slavery.

 

[tabycat]

It was the Southern radicals who walked out. The moderates thought this would all blow over. They also valued the Union and there were definitely some adroit maneuvers by Lincoln involving the Maryland legislature.

Maryland was not the only slave state in the Union. If it was just slavery as the cause of the Civil War, all of the slave states would have been in the CSA not just eleven of them.

 

[tabycat]

I cannot, for the life of me, comprehend the reasons some people continue to make excuses for the Confederacy and the American Civil War (not the War of Northern Aggression or the War of Succession of the War of States Rights or whatever…)

The American Civil War was a REBELLION by certain states mired in a feudal agriculture system that wrongly embraced the enslavement of human beings. Ya’all can sugah-coat it anyways ya want …but the truth is SLAVERY.

The whole incident was a black mark on our history.

Why “Confederate supporters” of today labor to justify the Civil War as a noble cause is completely beyond me.

When I see a Confederate flag (the ol’ Stars & Bars) I see a loser. An enemy of the United States. Just like the Flag of the Rising Sun or the Swastika of Nazi Germany or the Hammer & Cycle…all losers who tried to stand up against what America stands for…

The difference between the CSA and the Union was who had the right to tell the states weither they (the states) could be slave or non-slave; it was a States Rights issue. CSA was the states had the right to decide and the Union said that the federal government’s right to decide on the slavery issue.
BTW you may see a ‘loser’ when you see the Stars&Bars, well, maybe you see some of the Southern states as ‘losers’ because their state flags include the Stars&Bars,

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

The difference between the CSA and the Union was who had the right to tell the states weither they (the states) could be slave or non-slave; it was a States Rights issue. CSA was the states had the right to decide and the Union said that the federal government’s right to decide on the slavery issue.
BTW you may see a ‘loser’ when you see the Stars&Bars, well, maybe you see some of the Southern states as ‘losers’ because their state flags include the Stars&Bars,

You just can’t come up with any reason for the Civil War without using the word “slavery” or “slave”…can you.

The root cause of the Civil War was SLAVERY. (Period)

The losers I refer to are the “Bubbas” driving jacked-up pickup trucks with Confederate flags or decals all over them. The states that feature the Confederate flag within their own state flag are merely reflecting the sentiments of the majority of their citizens…who happen to be “Bubbas”

 

[exnihilo]

Africans were able to survive the brutal heat and humidity better than other folk…

The indentured servant thing was a different system.

Lots of good info in your post. I’d add that the length of indentured servant contracts in different regions reflect the hardship of working in the South. Basically the further South you went the shorter your contract. I may be wrong on the exact numbers but I seem to recall you could work a year on a sugar island or twelve years in New England. One reason you had more slavery in the South was it was much harder work and harder to survive.

Maryland was not the only slave state in the Union.

Maryland might have gone with the Confederacy but ol’ Honest Abe suspended habeas corpus, ignored the Supreme Court ruling finding that illegal, arrested the state legislature and imposed martial law. It was his idea of spreading democracy.

You just can’t come up with any reason for the Civil War without using the word “slavery” or “slave”…can you.

Sure you can. Taxes. The issue is complex. I think almost everyone realizes the war did relate to the issue of slavery. Slavery was one reason for secession, in so far as some states seceded out of fear about what might happen to the institution of slavery. But it wasn’t the only reason the states seceded. The war happened for another reason, preserving the Union - e.g. denying the right of self government, that had nothing to do with slavery. Anyone who has studied history knows the war was not about emancipating slaves.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoltan Cobalt View Post
You just can’t come up with any reason for the Civil War without using the word “slavery” or “slave”…can you.

Sure you can. Taxes. The issue is complex.** I think almost everyone realizes the war did relate to the issue of slavery.** Slavery was one reason for secession, in so far as some states seceded out of fear about what might happen to the institution of slavery. But it wasn’t the only reason the states seceded. The war happened for another reason, preserving the Union - e.g. denying the right of self government, that had nothing to do with slavery. Anyone who has studied history knows the war was not about emancipating slaves.

Why did the Union need preserving? Was it because of Taxes? No…but if you say SLAVERY…go to the head of the class.

 

[on_the_hill]

I had a good friend in high school who was originally from the south. He wasn’t racist by any stretch of the imagination, but there was a period of time when he wanted to display the Confederate flag. He bought a stars-n-bars license plate for the family car. His father, born and raised in South Carolina, absolutely refused to let him put it on the car. To him, it represented everything that was bad about the south.

So whenever we went out for a ride, my friend would screw the plate to the car’s bumper, and take it off when he got home.

 

[exnihilo]

Why did the Union need preserving? Was it because of Taxes? No…but if you say SLAVERY…go to the head of the class.

Obviously the South did not think the Union worth preserving. Why did the Union, that remained, think it worth preserving? Taxes. The federal government was funded primarily through tariffs and the South paid most of the tariffs. The Union depended on the South for funding (which is why Honest Abe had to impose an illegal income tax to support his war). That makes the war sensible from the Union’s point of view. It, like most wars, was about wealth, that is seizing it from others.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

The difference between the CSA and the Union was who had the right to tell the states weither they (the states) could be slave or non-slave; it was a States Rights issue. CSA was the states had the right to decide and the Union said that the federal government’s right to decide on the slavery issue.
BTW you may see a ‘loser’ when you see the Stars&Bars, well, maybe you see some of the Southern states as ‘losers’ because their state flags include the Stars&Bars,

The issue was the ownership of human beings. The confederate states followed the will of the landed Gentry to their ruin. They were crushed by an enemy who fought the war with it’s hands in it’s pockets.

This, and the resulting body count is the history of the civil war.

 

[Corki]

**The earliest form of slavery in the Americas arrived with Christopher Columbus. **

Hardly. Several Native American tribes practiced slavery as did the Mayans.

 

[starshiptrooper]

Obviously the South did not think the Union worth preserving. Why did the Union, that remained, think it worth preserving? Taxes. The federal government was funded primarily through tariffs and the South paid most of the tariffs. The Union depended on the South for funding (which is why Honest Abe had to impose an illegal income tax to support his war). That makes the war sensible from the Union’s point of view. It, like most wars, was about wealth, that is seizing it from others.

So lemme get this straight. The Southern economy which was agricultural and slave based was paying a disproportionate share of the Federal Government’s expenses. So the Union fought the war to bring that revenue back and then amended the Constitution for a 13th time, completely destroying the Southern economy and the tax base. Yep, that makes perfect sense.

 

[starshiptrooper]

The difference between the CSA and the Union was who had the right to tell the states weither they (the states) could be slave or non-slave; it was a States Rights issue. CSA was the states had the right to decide and the Union said that the federal government’s right to decide on the slavery issue.

The South had absolutely no problem using the Federal Government to spread slavery. Dredd Scott? Fugitive Slave Law? Gag Rule? How about the fact that the CSA’s constitution contained more protection for slavery than the US Constitution? The Republicans wanted to prevent slavery from spreading beyond the states where it already existed.

Maryland might have gone with the Confederacy but ol’ Honest Abe suspended habeas corpus, ignored the Supreme Court ruling finding that illegal, arrested the state legislature and imposed martial law. It was his idea of spreading democracy.

The Constitution allows for the suspension of habeas corpus. Roger Taney was a Southern sympathizer so it was a good thing that Lincoln ignored him. Btw, at the time Maryland legislature was discussing secession, the Civil War had already begun. Thus the legislature attempting to commit treason, which is one of the 3 crimes mentioned in the Constitution.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Obviously the South did not think the Union worth preserving. Why did the Union, that remained, think it worth preserving? Taxes. The federal government was funded primarily through tariffs and the South paid most of the tariffs. The Union depended on the South for funding (which is why Honest Abe had to impose an illegal income tax to support his war). That makes the war sensible from the Union’s point of view. It, like most wars, was about wealth, that is seizing it from others.

Yes, Honest Abe instituted an income tax and it was repealed after the war.

It just does not make sense to think that the Union wanted to seize wealth from the South.
Without slaves the South turned into a “dust bowl”. If the Union was a greedy conqueror it would have to re-instate slavery. No it wasn’t about wealth.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Obviously the South did not think the Union worth preserving. Why did the Union, that remained, think it worth preserving? Taxes. The federal government was funded primarily through tariffs and the South paid most of the tariffs. The Union depended on the South for funding (which is why Honest Abe had to impose an illegal income tax to support his war). That makes the war sensible from the Union’s point of view. It, like most wars, was about wealth, that is seizing it from others.

Actually, the federal government imposed more taxes because war is expensive.

 

[tabycat]

You just can’t come up with any reason for the Civil War without using the word “slavery” or “slave”…can you.

The root cause of the Civil War was SLAVERY. (Period)

The losers I refer to are the “Bubbas” driving jacked-up pickup trucks with Confederate flags or decals all over them. The states that feature the Confederate flag within their own state flag are merely reflecting the sentiments of the majority of their citizens…who happen to be “Bubbas”

Ok, the Civil War was over state’s rights, in other words, who had the right, the state or the federal government, to decide on certein things like tariffes or who can vote.

As for your ‘Bubba’ comment, my Irish Catholic grandmother alwas said it takes a Bubba to know a Bubba.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Ok, the Civil War was over state’s rights, in other words, who had the right, the state or the federal government, to decide on certein things like tariffes or who can vote.

As for your ‘Bubba’ comment, my Irish Catholic grandmother alwas said it takes a Bubba to know a Bubba.

The “state right” in question was slavery. Or are we to ignore the decades leading up to the war in which slavery was the issue of the day?

 

[tabycat]

The “state right” in question was slavery. Or are we to ignore the decades leading up to the war in which slavery was the issue of the day?

The state right was who, the state or the Union, was to decide if a state (or part of a state) was to allow slavery or to allow non-property owners (or a non-WASP or women) to vote.

 

[tabycat]

The South had absolutely no problem using the Federal Government to spread slavery. Dredd Scott? Fugitive Slave Law? Gag Rule? How about the fact that the CSA’s constitution contained more protection for slavery than the US Constitution? The Republicans wanted to prevent slavery from spreading beyond the states where it already existed.The Constitution allows for the suspension of habeas corpus. Roger Taney was a Southern sympathizer so it was a good thing that Lincoln ignored him. Btw, at the time Maryland legislature was discussing secession, the Civil War had already begun. Thus the legislature attempting to commit treason, which is one of the 3 crimes mentioned in the Constitution.

If Maryland had left the Union, Washington DC would have been encircaled and would not have been the Capital of the Union very long. As for slavery, the Northern supporters of it were glad for the raw products (cotton, sugar, tobaco) that the South produced.