Orthodox Church

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I’m interested in both the Orthodox and the Catholic churches. I’m not that interested in the ‘which came first’? argument which seems kind of pedantic.

I am interested in theological differences, like what happened at the cross, how we are affected by original sin and what that means for Mary being the ‘immaculate conception’ which from what little I can tell the Orthodox don’t hold to.

I ask because I feel like I’m banging my head against a fridge door trying to find these things out while everyone else talks about jurisdictions and cultural distinctions.
 
cottice said:
Regarding the loss of North Africa to Islam, I attribute that to several things. First the many heresies that plagued the African Church as well as Islam’s converting people with the sword. It is happening still in sub Sahara Africa as well as in Iraq and Syria. And while we may have lost churches we did not lose the principle church as did the Jews and the Orthodox. In fact, during WWII Rome was spared the devastation of war when the Nazi’s abandoned the city. Far different story than what befell the Jews and the Orthodox

Do I? Or is it you? Your Church shares it also.
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If you think that God was punishing the Orthodox by allowing the Turks to slaughter and persecute millions of Christians then you have more in common with those Muslims than you do with us.
cottice said:
Pope John Paul went to Greece to see the Greek Patriarch and the Patriarch refused to say a prayer (The Our Father) with him.
It was only after some of his advisers told him that what he was doing was a public relations disaster that he relented. This was so typical of the Orthodox. You won’t joint with your christian brothers in prayer for the reason that they are your christian brothers but will do so only because to refuse to do so would have an adverse effect on you. I still maintain a picture taken by a member of the press of the Patriarch and the Pope sitting in chairs about 20 feet apart. Those chairs were set up by the Orthodox and are a poignant reminder of just how far the Orthodox have distance themselves from the Catholkic Church. Like I said before, You don’t have the filioque to use as your red herring anymore so now what is your excuse?
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A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid. - Titus 3:10

Thou shalt not pray with heretics or schismatics. - Canon XXXIII of Laodicea

If a Clergyman or a Layman should enter a Jewish synagogue, or pray with heretics, let him be excommunicated and defrocked. - Canon 64 of the Holy Apostles

I might recommend you familiarize yourself with the canonical literature of your Church. You might learn something. 😉
 
tdgesq said:
The name is important to make certain distinctions, but not the one at issue here. The issue here is whether the present day label “Catholic” let’s one know which church follows the true Tradition and has the true teaching authority handed down from Christ through the apostles and their successors. You want to insist that the label “Catholic” gives us useful information in that regard, but it really doesn’t. Why?

Because as just about any EO will tell you, their official name is the Orthodox Catholic Church or some other variant containing the label “Catholic.” And then there are the Old Catholic Churches. And then there is the Anglican Catholic Church, etc. So why do the Orthodox today (particularly in discussions with Roman Catholics) label themselves Eastern Orthodox?
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Bp John answers that point about Orthodox
https://melkite.org/eparchy/bishop-j…ited-with-rome

As far as Old Catholics and Anglicans, neither is considered a “rite” of the Catholic Church so they are NOT Catholic nor are they the Catholic Church
ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm

The Anglicans that ARE mentioned in that list, are converts to the Catholic Church, they are no longer protestants
t:
t:
I suppose for the same reason the Roman Catholic Church referred to itself as the “Roman Church” 80 times in the conciliar documents of Florence. That is, to distinguish itself in some way from other Churches that use the label “Catholic,” whether the use of that term is justified or not.
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The context is to show where unity gets it’s meaning. Unity with the Roman pontiff
t:
Well, at the time that Augustine wrote that [a.d. 397] Christianity was the official religion of the Roman Empire. So I have no doubt that heretics refused to point to their own house as a place where the Catholic Church met.
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The context is heresy in general and Manacheism in particular which is who and what Augustine was arguing against at the time
t:
That’s not a quote from Irenaeus. It’s a title added by the editor to his work. I went to Jurgens to confirm this is the case. In any event, it’s true. Notice it doesn’t state that the label “Catholic Church” is what allows us to know that other churches do not hold to apostolic doctrine. It’s that they cannot trace their origin up to the apostles.
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Irenaeus writes " Catholic Church " to name and specifically show the Church he is defending in “Against Heresies”, just in case there is any confusion by a reader as to who specifically Irenaeus is a member of and is defending
t:
Correct, but now you are making an argument for why the Catholic Church as it exists institutionally today is the true Church as testified to by the Fathers! That’s precisely what demonstration needs to be made. Not “hey, Irenaeus and Augustine used the label ‘Catholic Church’, and that’s the same label we use today (sometimes) but the Eastern Orthodox don’t (they actually do). We win!”
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IMV this isn’t just some label we’re defending. And IMV, more than ample covering of history (scripture & Tradition) has been shown by many so far.
t:
And Augustine is correct that only one group qualifies to have that name. Of course, today many other Churches do dare to label themselves “Catholic,” including the Orthodox. So now how do we decide today? I suggest we look at what they actually teach and compare it to what Church traditionally has taught.
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I would suggest that’s what many have been doing in their responses so far.
 
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