Orthodox to Catholic

  • Thread starter Thread starter Monica4316
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Cecilianus said:
Anyone can worship and participate fully in any Catholic church of any rite. It’s an issue though because Eastern Catholics are subject to a much more stringent discipline than Roman Catholics are (much higher standards of fasting, many more fast days, many more holy days of obligation). If someone is received into the Church as an Eastern Catholic, he would have commited a mortal sin by eating an egg or drinking a glass of milk on the monday before your “Ash Wednesday” this year, which wouldn’t have been a sin at all as a Roman Catholic.
Click to expand...
That definitely would not have been mortally sinful. Even according to the Roman theology, one must have full knowledge and it must be grave matter. Since this is a byzantine matter though, byzantine fast rules are not strict rules that can never be deviated from. It is not sinful for someone to ignore the fast all together let alone eat an egg not realizing that they shouldnt be.
 
Formosus said:
… Since this is a byzantine matter though, byzantine fast rules are not strict rules that can never be deviated from. It is not sinful for someone to ignore the fast all together let alone eat an egg not realizing that they shouldnt be.
Click to expand...
I agree.

While the tradition is stricter, the sense of obligation is not the same.

For laypersons, this is a spiritual exercise one does for one’s benefit and improvement, not an act of obedience under denunciation or pain of punishment.

As I see it, the public are to be encouraged, not threatened. They should know their own challenges, and master them. The people should recognize their own limitations and try to transcend them … focus on the virtuous life, empower the will, subdue the passions and keep the love of God in the heart.

The spiritual exercises of fasting, with prayer, are instruments for this purpose. 🙂

*‘The soul’s true peace lies in the gentle name of Jesus and in its emptying itself of impassioned thoughts.’ *
St Hesychios the Priest
 
Formosus said:
That definitely would not have been mortally sinful. Even according to the Roman theology, one must have full knowledge and it must be grave matter. Since this is a byzantine matter though, byzantine fast rules are not strict rules that can never be deviated from. It is not sinful for someone to ignore the fast all together let alone eat an egg not realizing that they shouldnt be.
Click to expand...
Then what does it mean for the bishops to give us “minimum” requirements for fasting?
 
Cecilianus said:
Then what does it mean for the bishops to give us “minimum” requirements for fasting?
Click to expand...
It means that rather then set out the traditional fasting discipline the bishop gives you a bare minimum to fulfill…such as no meat on Clean Monday and Good Friday, rather then no meat,dairy, fish, wine or olive oil for the entire fast, no eating before the 9th hour of the day…that sort of thing…most Greek Catholic bishops especially here in the US take a very Latin approach to fasting.
 
ciero said:
It means that rather then set out the traditional fasting discipline the bishop gives you a bare minimum to fulfill…such as no meat on Clean Monday and Good Friday, rather then no meat,dairy, fish, wine or olive oil for the entire fast, no eating before the 9th hour of the day…that sort of thing…most Greek Catholic bishops especially here in the US take a very Latin approach to fasting.
Click to expand...
The “traditional fasting discipline” for ordinary days in Lent is given as the “bare minimum” for Clean Monday and Great Friday in the Ruthenian Church, and then no meat on all Wednesdays and Fridays in Lent and Holy Saturday.

It would seem that breaking it, without a very explicit dispensation from your pastor, would be a grave sin.
 
Cecilianus said:
The “traditional fasting discipline” for ordinary days in Lent is given as the “bare minimum” for Clean Monday and Great Friday in the Ruthenian Church, and then no meat on all Wednesdays and Fridays in Lent and Holy Saturday.

It would seem that breaking it, without a very explicit dispensation from your pastor, would be a grave sin.
Click to expand...
Fasting is a discipline…it is a way to spiritually better yourself…to not fast is not sinful per say…but it is not good at the same time. Once again it is the “legalistic” mindset of the West that says it is sinful.
 
Even the minimum fasting regulations are not strict legal obligations that must be upheld on the pain of sin . Fasting is meant to help the Christian advance spiritually, not condemn them to hell for not doing it. Your view of fasting is reminiscent of Latin legalism.
 
Formosus said:
Even the minimum fasting regulations are not strict legal obligations that must be upheld on the pain of sin . Fasting is meant to help the Christian advance spiritually, not condemn them to hell for not doing it. Your view of fasting is reminiscent of Latin legalism.
Click to expand...
This isn’t my view; that’s why I think there shouldn’t be any “minimum” requirements. But this is my understanding of what the Catholic bishops have given us (in imitation of the Latins).
 
Cecilianus said:
This isn’t my view; that’s why I think there shouldn’t be any “minimum” requirements. But this is my understanding of what the Catholic bishops have given us (in imitation of the Latins).
Click to expand...
So your saying that Byzantine Catholic bishops are now saying it is sinful not to follow their fasting regulations? I thought they were getting away from more Latinizations.
 
ciero said:
So your saying that Byzantine Catholic bishops are now saying it is sinful not to follow their fasting regulations? I thought they were getting away from more Latinizations.
Click to expand...
Yes; that’s what I’m saying.
 
ciero said:
So your saying that Byzantine Catholic bishops are now saying it is sinful not to follow their fasting regulations? I thought they were getting away from more Latinizations.
Click to expand...
Of course, their fasting regulations are much more lax than the traditional fast.
 
Cecilianus said:
Of course, their fasting regulations are much more lax than the traditional fast.
Click to expand...
Cecilianus the problem is that in the Byzantine way of thinking even to not fast at all is NOT sinful…now it isn’t good for you but it is NOT sinful.

Now in the West to not follow the minimum fasting set down in law IS sinful, so I’m sure you can see why I call that a Latinization…it is a totally different way of thinking…and MOST of the Byzantine bishops in the US think like Latins…which IMHO stinks. 😉
 
I’d be interested to see a citation for the claim that your bishop or any byzantine bishop teaches that it is a mortal sin to not practice the fasting regulations.
 
Formosus said:
I’d be interested to see a citation for the claim that your bishop or any byzantine bishop teaches that it is a mortal sin to not practice the fasting regulations.
Click to expand...
I’m getting it from a sheet given to me at my parish. It is very similar to what ciero cited; note the legally-framed “Dispensation” at the end.
Abstinence
The law of abstinence forbids the use of meat or meat by-products. The use of eggs and dairy products are permitted.
Click to expand...
Abstinence is to be observed on all Wednesdays and Fridays during the Holy Season of the Great Fast and on Holy Saturday.
Click to expand...
Strict Abstinence
The law of strict abstinence (fast) forbids the use of meat, eggs and dairy products or any of their by-products.
Click to expand...
All of the adult faithful of the Eparchy [of Parma] who receive Holy Communion are obliged to observe Strict Abstinence. Those with valid medical reasons; pregnant or nursing mothers are not bound to fast.
Click to expand...
Strict fast and Abstinence is to be observed on the First Day of the Great Fast, Monday, March 7th and on Great and Holy Friday, April 22nd.
Click to expand...
Dispensation
Pastors and administrators may, for a just cause, grant to the individual faithful and to individual families, dispensations or commutations of abstinence and strict abstinence into other pious practices.
Click to expand...
 
Even with the inclusion of dispensation, neither document states that it is mortally sinful to not follow those guide lines.
 
Formosus said:
Even with the inclusion of dispensation, neither document states that it is mortally sinful to not follow those guide lines.
Click to expand...
It’s a reasonable assumption, though - they’re following Latin praxis by setting bare minima, so one would assume that these minima are to be followed on pain of mortal sin as they are in the West.
 
Do the Orthodox not have to confess, if they break the fast? I thought they did??
ciero said:
Cecilianus the problem is that in the Byzantine way of thinking even to not fast at all is NOT sinful…now it isn’t good for you but it is NOT sinful.

Now in the West to not follow the minimum fasting set down in law IS sinful, so I’m sure you can see why I call that a Latinization…it is a totally different way of thinking…and MOST of the Byzantine bishops in the US think like Latins…which IMHO stinks. 😉
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top