Orthodox

[Sam_777]

isn’t he Coptic?

I don’t know!, he lives in the west now, but what is the difference between the Orthodox and Coptics?

Sam, do you have some information you can share about this in this thread from English sources, if there are any? (My Arabic is not so good yet…)

That was on TV, However, I will try to search for you an English source.

 

[Sam_777]

Sam, do you have some information you can share about this in this thread from English sources, if there are any? (My Arabic is not so good yet…)

Sorry dzheremi, no English site, only this Arabic one:
islamway.com/?iw_s=outdoor&iw_a=print_articles&article_id=2540

However, let us wait till we hear from minamagd.

 

[dzheremi]

Bless you, Sam. I can read Arabic now, but do not understand anything since I have almost no vocabulary yet, so maybe it would be a good lesson for me…

About the Copts: Yes, I also think it’s best to wait for Minamagdy, since actual Copts know best of course.

In the meantime, here are some links that might help you or you might find interesting:

copticchurch.net/

coptic.net/EncyclopediaCoptica/

coptic-cairo.com/ (A very cool site about Coptic culture and history in Egypt, including a museum)

cnewa.org/ecc-bodypg-us.aspx?eccpageID=63&IndexView=toc (A website about the Coptic Catholic Church, but provides some short writings on the Coptic Orthodox and other Churches from a Catholic perspective)

 

[Peter_J]

I don’t know!, he lives in the west now, but what is the difference between the Orthodox and Coptics?

The Coptic Orthodox fall under the category of Oriental Orthodox, as distinct from Eastern Orthodox.

 

[Peter_J]

I’d encourage you to join Orthodoxy and receive the Mysteries…then perhaps you will be able to explain clearly what I am not able to express.

Doesn’t seem like a very good reason to convert.

(I’m kidding btw, I know that’s not what you meant. )

 

[Peter_J]

I’m not sure, but if I had to guess I would say that most Western people probably look at both groups, see that they’re both Eastern and hence have a lot in common in tradition and practice (e.g., same liturgical languages) and figure that the Eastern Catholics would know more about the EO than Western Catholics. I don’t think anyone would regard EO as Eastern Catholic…if anything, perhaps the other way around, as I have noticed even some Eastern Catholic posters write things about how they cannot be “truly” Eastern while in union with Rome.

It would be interesting to ask those people whether they also think that the WRO (Western-Rite Orthodox) can’t be “truly Western” as long as they are in union with Constantinople.

Also, if I wanted to ask a question about Catholicism on an Orthodox forum, would I place it in the WRO sub-forum?

 

[Peter_J]

Do the EO CHurches accept Catholic Sacraments as Valid? DO you teach that we have a valid preisthood and valid apostolic succession? If I convert to an Orthodox Church, what happens?

Ralphinal,

If you’re looking for an Orthodox equivalent of “Apostolicae Curae”, then I don’t believe you’re going to find one. (Theoretically it’s possible that there will be one someday – after all, it was centuries before “Apostolicae Curae” happened – but even that seems unlikely.)

 

[ralphinal]

Ralphinal,

If you’re looking for an Orthodox equivalent of “Apostolicae Curae”, then I don’t believe you’re going to find one. (Theoretically it’s possible that there will be one someday – after all, it was centuries before “Apostolicae Curae” happened – but even that seems unlikely.)

I guess that I am looking for something like that.

We say they left us. We say that they are still in possession of valid Apostolic Succession and Valid Sacraments.

They say we left them. They will not say anything on the other issues, though it is my understanding that there is no concensus on either side.

If we left them, would they not know if we still had valid orders and Sacraments?

 

[Peter_J]

^^ Well, the RC position is that Anglican Orders haven’t been valid since … what, 1552 I guess? (Is GKC around?)

But Apostolicae Curae wasn’t issed until 1896 – more than 300 years later!

 

[Sam_777]

Thank you dzheremi and Peter.

 

[Mickey]

However, at this time, in order for me to change from Rome to anywhere else I would be going against my intellect, my conscience, and my soul.

Interesting. I was not able to stay in union with Rome because it went against my intellect, conscience, and soul.

 

[ralphinal]

Interesting. I was not able to stay in union with Rome because it went against my intellect, conscience, and soul.

Hey, no one is perfect .

Each of us looked at the information and we each came ot a different conclusion. However, if we look at what we disagree with, it is clear that theologically, we are more alike than different.

 

[Mickey]

Every last one of them.

Not.

 

[Mickey]

Each of us looked at the information and we each came ot a different conclusion.

There is only one truth.

 

[palakerala2008]

Eastern fathers said that satan or devil had affected Pope Leo in the council of Calcedon. He proclaimed that he is in the seat of Peter only because of the rise of the patriarch of constantinople and down fall of the church of Antioch.

 

[Mickey]

However, if we look at what we disagree with, it is clear that theologically, we are more alike than different.

Yes. Suffice it to say that Catholicism shares Tradition with Holy Orthodoxy. It is sad that Rome decided to add innovations after She left the Orthodox Church. Protestanism broke from the Catholic Church and took things to extemes!

 

[ralphinal]

There is only one truth.

Agreed, but we differ on how it is expressed. We both accept the sacramental system, Apostolic succession, and so much more. What we differ with is the internal construction of the CHurhc leadership and how the authority is dispersed. Even the Filioque comes to that issue as much as it does theologically.

 

[Peter_J]

Originally Posted by ralphinal
However, at this time, in order for me to change from Rome to anywhere else I would be going against my intellect, my conscience, and my soul.

And yet we (both sides) try so hard to convince ourselves that we are so very different.

 

[Mickey]

And yet we (both sides) try so hard to convince ourselves that we are so very different.

I concede that Holy Orthodoxy holds much in common with Catholicism–we share the same Tradition. But sadly, Rome made many additions after the split–I see them as innovations–Catholics see them as developments of doctrine. I do not downplay that there are serious differences here. These differences were enough to prick my conscience to the point where I needed to leave communion with Rome. So I am not convincing myself of anything. I do not pretend that our differences are trivial.

Yes, I always pray for reconciliation.

Thy will be done.

 

[Peter_J]

I concede that Holy Orthodoxy holds much in common with Catholicism

I agree, but that isn’t what I meant. I was referring to the fact that you said:

I was not able to stay in union with Rome because it went against my intellect, conscience, and soul.

Whereas Ralphinal said:

However, at this time, in order for me to change from Rome to anywhere else I would be going against my intellect, my conscience, and my soul.

Unfortunately many people (on both sides) spin things in such a way that conversions from Orthodoxy to Catholicism sound completely different from conversions from Catholicism to Orthodoxy.

–we share the same Tradition. But sadly, Rome made many additions after the split–I see them as innovations–Catholics see them as developments of doctrine. I do not downplay that there are serious differences here. These differences were enough to prick my conscience to the point where I needed to leave communion with Rome. So I am not convincing myself of anything. I do not pretend that our differences are trivial.

Yes, I always pray for reconciliation.

Thy will be done.

I think that the Roman Catholic Church has been too dogmatic about the authority of the Pope, and other things that we believe in, but I also think that the Eastern Orthodox have been too dogmatic about the limitations of the Pope’s authority, and other things you guys believe in.