Osama Bin Laden Is Dead

[tskrobacz]

“I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.”
–Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[TobyLue]

                      My question is:

How can a man who probably never even heard or read the story of Jesus Christ truly repent? Osama bin Laden thought that everything he had done was the right thing to do, he saw no wrong in his actions. And since he could not really make a choice to follow Jesus, not even really knowing who Jesus was, he could not have suddenly repented when faced with his impending death. I would venture to guess that his final prayer would have been to Allah, not Jesus Christ or even God.

So, since we know he did not repent, and could not have repented, are we still to be encouraged to pray for his soul? It’s different if a mass murderer acknowledges what he has done and tries to make amends for it. It’s another thing if he goes to his death never having found peace or asking God to forgive him.

I’m not saying OBL doesn’t deserve mercy - he does. But short of a true miracle, he went to his death fully believing that his own actions were right.

God’s laws are written in every man’s heart. We learn what is good and what is evil. Regardless of whether somebody knows about Jesus or not, there is still a chance for that person to be saved. (CCC847) Since he was shot in the head which probably caused instant death, what is instant to God? An attosecond to us means nothing to God who is outside time. Jesus might have revealed Himself to OBL before he died. OBL might have had an opportunity to accepted Jesus or not. Only God knows.

As the prayer during a Rosary says “O My Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all sous to heaven, especially those most need of Thy mercy”. We can rightfully say due to the actions of OBL that he was in most need of God’s mercy.

 

[_L]

In his final moments initial reports seem to suggest (if they can be trusted) that Bin Laden used his wife as a human shield. I hardly think this qualifies as repentence and yes your right, I have no right to say he did not mentally repent in his last moments but neither do you have the right to daydream that such an evil man WOULD.

None of this has been confirmed, and I presume none of it will be with absolute certainty. but I have every single right to hope that even the evilest of men repented in their last moments. There is nothing wrong in hoping that God intervened in his final moments of life and gave him the grace to repent. There is however something wrong with presuming to know the judgment of God and just definitively say that he is in hell. The thief on the cross repented in his final moments, how is it beyond belief to think Bin Laden did as well?

My point is, for you to pray for Bin Laden to escape hell - when you know full well he has committed SEVERE mortal sin and shown no public or written signs of repentence - is to directly challange God’s decree that murder is a mortal sin.

It is not directly challenging God’s decree the murder is a mortal sin, and I take issue with any implication that I am if that is what you are saying. I hope that he repented, and I pray for his soul, because I believe the mercy of God can extend to everyone if only they repent, and although we truly do not know if Bin Laden repented or not, we can only hope he did and pray for him under that condition.

I feel that if one prays for Bin Laden when his soul is in such a state, we are not only dishonouring his victims around the world, but effectively saying that God has no right to send certain people to hell, when he has created hell obviously to send people to it.

“when his soul is in such a state.” You simply do not know! How can you possibly claim to know such things. And it is not effectively saying that God has no right to send certain people to Hell, that is putting words in my mouth and the mouths of everyone who agree with me. God has every right to send every one of us to Hell but for His love and mercy He has provided us with a path for forgiveness. God doesn’t want to send anyone to hell, He allows people to make their choices and to persist in their sin if they so choose, but like a loving father He desires every single one of His children to be reconciled to Him, and we can only hope Bin Laden was reconciled with God before he died.

We just don’t have the right to challange God’s justice. God will deal with Bin Laden. Don’t pray for him. Pray for his poor, innocent wife whom he used to block the American troops who shot him to death.

Rather, pray for Bin Laden, pray for his wife, pray for everyone he deceived, pray for everyone he hurt and killed, pray those that deceived him in his life and contributed to the man he became, and pray for all of the young muslims he sent to their deaths as suicide bombers and terrorists, because we will never know how culpable people are for their sins, and our only hope is to trust in the mercy of God because we, like God, must desire the repentance of all of His children which are our brothers and sisters as well.

I regret that Hitler and Bin Laden need suffer in hell but I will never pray for them now that they are dead. And I don’t feel any less a Christian for saying so. Sorry.

If God thinks that hell is the just punishment for certain souls, then what right do we have to tell him that he is wrong?

I never said God is wrong, but we simply do not know how He has judged someone, but apparently you think you know as you said in the case of Hitler and Bin Laden.

Saint Moses the Black was a murderer. But he repented and became a very holy man and so we all have to forgive him for whatever sin he committed in his past. Hitler and Bin Laden didn’t, as far as we can tell. Your scripture references to people above only refer to those still alive who have time left to repent.

Yet again, we simply do not know if they repented or not. I only hope he repented, and under that condition I pray for his soul.

If not then explain this passage to me.

There was nothing wrong with the Israelites rejoicing over the downfall of the pharaoh and his chariots, they were facing impending death because the pharaoh came to kill them, and God saved them right then and there by drowning them in the sea, and so they rightfully rejoiced that God saved them via defeating Pharaoh Himself. They were not rejoicing over the eternal damnation of Pharaoh and his army, as many are rejoicing in regards to Bin Laden. (not saying you are, but others have)
I am not saying the USA was not justified in killing him, what I am saying is that I do not like the massive rejoicing I am seeing from many people. The rejoicing and hoping that he is burning for eternity, we should never rejoice or hope for that fate on anyone! Again I am not implying that anyone here is espousing those views but over the last 24 hours I have encountered several people who think that way on this issue.

 

[jediliz]

I am glad he’s not a threat anymore, but I am also going to say that Terrorism is still a thread. Al Qeida is still out there and his supporters will probably retaliate. We can’t let our guard down.

 

[LutheranDK]

The point is, Gd is the Author of Life and is the ONLY ONE who has the right to take it back.

A right He, Blessed be His name, has also delegated to society, cf. Romans 13 (if you want NT-references)

Gd gave us His commandments and He defined love as obeying His commandments.

And that commanment was…to love oneanother. Please quote in context.

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Please discuss the issues, not each other

Please do not question the spirtuality of other members

Please stay on the topic of the death of Osama bin Laden

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Also most labs have far more than one sample to run.

This was probably given expidited attention

 

[jfmarm81]

God bless you, and prayers for you and for the soul of your godmother. I’m sure God understands your feelings. Take all the time you need to reflect on things.

Thank you very much for your prayers and kind words. I very much appreciate it.

 

[SwizzleStick]

My feelings too. My reaction was more of “Whoa!..wow…” I don’t feel like celebrating…I feel kinda…melancholy (not sad)…contemplative over his existence and what he did…and just having this overwhelming urge to pray.

I feel this way too.

 

[SwizzleStick]

I am going to be the first to say it, Kudo’s to Barack Obama. This is a win for ALL AMERICANS, first and foremost. He got intelligence and he acted on it and killed that punk (insert your favorite explicative here).

I’ll bash Obama’s economic policies tomorrow. Today is a day to celebrate and give credit where credit is due.

I agree, though I’m not sure I quite feel like celebrating. I do acknowledge that this is a victory for America, though, and credit should be given where credit is due. Kudos to Obama and our military.

 

[Veritas_Vincit]

My first thought was "It’s about time we found him’. I was not overjoyed that he was killed, but I could understand why so many were.I would have preferred we take him alive. We have a whole generation of young people who have been fed fear of a terrorist attack. Think of how long this has been going on. That they were celebrating in the streets is no surprise. I can understand why they turned out but I also worry that the jubilation may lead to another attack. Think of how incensed we were when we saw the celebrations of the 9-11 attack.
I hope that the fact the he was living in luxury has an impact on his followers.

 

[gilliam]

Fast DNA analysis, see:
abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/health&id=8107713

 

[LOCO]

*Originally Posted by Kit15 View Post
My feelings too. My reaction was more of “Whoa!..wow…” I don’t feel like celebrating…I feel kinda…melancholy (not sad)…contemplative over his existence and what he did…and just having this overwhelming urge to pray.
*
I second that feeling Kit15. Celebrating anyone’s death is ‘unchristian’. We must always remeber to love the sinner and not the sin.

OBL has met his Judge. He led an unexamined life .

I pray that his death does not result in retaliation from his supporters.
**
“In the face of a man’s death, a Christian never rejoices, but reflects on the serious responsibilities of each person before God and before men, and hopes and works so that every event may be the occasion for the further growth of peace and not of hatred,” the spokesman said." FR FREDERICO LOMBARDI ON THE DEATH OF OBL**

 

[SwizzleStick]

You can pray that God will exact His perfect justice according to His will, not ours. Pray for understanding.

I think this might be what I am seeking. I am trying to understand. Divine Mercy Sunday, the beatification of JPII and the death of Bin Laden. I am unsettled with all the conflicting emotions.

I think we need to pray.

 

[gilliam]

They got lots from the disk drives they took from the house:

The assault force of Navy SEALs snatched a trove of computer drives and disks during their weekend raid on Osama bin Laden’s compound, yielding what a U.S. official called “the mother lode of intelligence.”

The special operations forces grabbed personal computers, thumb drives and electronic equipment during the lightning raid that killed bin Laden, officials told POLITICO…

“Hundreds of people are going through it now,” an official said, adding that intelligence operatives back in Washington are very excited to find out what they have.
“It’s going to be great even if only 10 percent of it is actionable,” the official said.

politico.com/news/stories/0511/54151.html

They will probably have to act on it pretty quickly before people move.

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

I think this might be what I am seeking. I am trying to understand. Divine Mercy Sunday, the beatification of JPII and the death of Bin Laden. I am unsettled with all the conflicting emotions.

I think we need to pray.

For sure what a range of emotions all day.

 

[Veritas_Vincit]

They got lots from the disk drives they took from the house:

The assault force of Navy SEALs snatched a trove of computer drives and disks during their weekend raid on Osama bin Laden’s compound, yielding what a U.S. official called “the mother lode of intelligence.”

The special operations forces grabbed personal computers, thumb drives and electronic equipment during the lightning raid that killed bin Laden, officials told POLITICO…

“Hundreds of people are going through it now,” an official said, adding that intelligence operatives back in Washington are very excited to find out what they have.
“It’s going to be great even if only 10 percent of it is actionable,” the official said.

politico.com/news/stories/0511/54151.html

They will probably have to act on it pretty quickly before people move.

This is really good news. Thanks for posting.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I think this might be what I am seeking. I am trying to understand. Divine Mercy Sunday, the beatification of JPII and the death of Bin Laden. I am unsettled with all the conflicting emotions.

I have no “conflicting emotions” (at least about those three things.) These are all very different points of reference.

This was not a personal action, in the sense of one person after another person. Least of all was it a religious action. This was a military action, a professionally trained mission to remove a known international terrorist and mass-murderer from his position as model recruiter for more international terrorists victimizing random innocent Christians, Muslims, and Jews worldwide. It was years in the planning, and once the opportunity arose, it had to be swift or not at all.

Some of you seem not to understand the difference between national priorities and personal spirituality. Either that, or some would prefer not to acknowledge the nasty reality of needing a military whatsoever. Armies and navies do kill; even in defensive roles they must kill. Governments are not in the business of saving souls.

Personally, I have enough to be concerned about in my own spirituality and need for Divine Mercy than to feel inappropriate responsibility for a political enemy of the free world. Divine Mercy is up to God – thankfully not up to me, or to any government or military.

If a personal enemy had been killed (thankfully I don’t have any people I consider an enemy at present), then perhaps I would have “conflicting emotions.”

 

[SwizzleStick]

I have no “conflicting emotions” (at least about those three things.) These are all very different points of reference.

This was not a personal action, in the sense of one person after another person. Least of all was it a religious action. This was a military action, a professionally trained mission to remove a known international terrorist and mass-murderer from his position as model recruiter for more international terrorists victimizing random innocent Christians, Muslims, and Jews worldwide. It was years in the planning, and once the opportunity arose, it had to be swift or not at all.

Some of you seem not to understand the difference between national priorities and personal spirituality. Either that, or some would prefer not to acknowledge the nasty reality of needing a military whatsoever. Armies and navies do kill; even in defensive roles they must kill. Governments are not in the business of saving souls.

Personally, I have enough to be concerned about in my own spirituality and need for Divine Mercy than to feel inappropriate responsibility for a political enemy of the free world. Divine Mercy is up to God – thankfully not up to me, or to any government or military.

If a personal enemy had been killed (thankfully I don’t have any people I consider an enemy at present), then perhaps I would have “conflicting emotions.”

I think maybe I erred in using the term “conflicting emotions.” Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say “convergence of emotions.” I am unsettled. The death of Bin Laden takes me back to a beautiful, sunny day, with a perfect blue sky. That perfect day quickly turned horrific with death and destruction, with wave after wave of surreal events, hard to comprehend events. Now the evil man behind those events is dead and cannot order the death of any more innocents. That is a very good thing, but remembering the events, the losses, the pain, the suffering makes me melancholy.

At the same time, Divine Mercy Sunday is a day of mercy and forgiveness, so it is a joyful day. So too is it joyful that JPII was beatified on Sunday. So many emotions converging on the same day. I am unsettled and I seek peace. I think prayer and reflection is the answer and the way.

Also, I cannot disagree with the excerpted quote below. The idea of Pandora’s Box popped into my head. Has something begun, has more evil been launched, is something else in motion now?

…we just took one man out and in doing so probably ignited the whole network. The bravest among us will shout “Bring them on!”, I will support that, but I also know good people will die in the process, and thus feel sorrow and grief.

 

[Jennifer_G]

At the same time, Divine Mercy Sunday is a day of mercy and forgiveness, so it is a joyful day. So too is it joyful that JPII was beatified on Sunday. So many emotions converging on the same day. I am unsettled and I seek peace. I think prayer and reflection is the answer and the way.

And what a weekend, too! I think everyone needs a weekend to recover from the weekend! :hypno: