Osama Bin Laden Is Dead

[Vouthon]

White House now admits that the reports of OBL having a gun or using his wife as a shield are false. As stated earlier this was snuff mission conducted for the sole purpose of giving Obama an election issue. He put the lives of US troops in danger to do what a Predator drone could have accomplished without making an international incident.

Now we have the problem of US troops having invaded an ally’s (I use the term loosely) country and conducting an act of war. Imagine the outrage in the US had a Chinese hit squad killed the Dalai Lama while he was visiting the US.

Ah so the intial claims were indeed just rumours/propaganda Thank you for alerting me to this!

I doubt that you can compare the murder of a man like the Dalai Lama with that of OBL, an international terrorist guilty of the worst terror attack in human history on American soil?

Hmm

 

[seekerz]

If this is true, then the administration broke the law.
And I suspect defense of the rule of law will be an unpopular position.

Are you saying that his being shielded (or not) by his wife, makes a difference as to whether this was a lawful killing?

 

[vz71]

Are you saying that his being shielded (or not) by his wife, makes a difference as to whether this was a lawful killing?

No. I am saying that having a gun makes that difference.

First reports claimed the mission was to kill him.
First reports also claimed he was given opportunity to surrender, but fired back at our forces.
And first reports claimed he used his wife as a human shield while he did the firing from behind her.

Now we are being told he did not have a gun.
And we are being told he did not use his wife as a human shield.

So where does this leave us with the claim that our forces demanded surrender but he fired back instead? (A claim that does not square with the first reports that this was a kill and not a capture mission).

For the moment I will make the assumption that our forces were too professional to mistakenly shoot an unarmed man.
That would mean purpose and implies orders from higher.
Perhaps the initial report that they went in to kill and not capture was correct.

And that would be a violation of the law.

 

[Roselle]

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, but still was surprising to read how partisan some politicians can be. Saw this about Nancy Pelosi, past and present statements concerning Bin Laden.

“The Intellectual Dishonesty of Nancy Pelosi”

commentarymagazine.com/2011/05/03/intellectual-dishonesty-of-nancy-pelosi/

Excerpt:

Here’s Nancy Pelosi from a press conference on September 7, 2006:

[E]ven if [Osama bin Laden] is caught tomorrow, it is five years too late. He has done more damage the longer he has been out there. But, in fact, the damage that he has done . . . is done. And even to capture him now I don’t think makes us any safer.

And here’s Nancy Pelosi yesterday:

The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida. . . . I salute President Obama, his national security team, Director Panetta, our men and women in the intelligence community and military, and other nations who supported this effort for their leadership in achieving this major accomplishment. . . . [T]he death of Osama bin Laden is historic. . . .

This devastating then-and-now comparison comes to us courtesy of John Hideraker of Power Line.

 

[SamH]

I doubt that you can compare the murder of a man like the Dalai Lama with that of OBL, an international terrorist guilty of the worst terror attack in human history on American soil?

Hmm

I would never do that. But take it from the Chinese view; the Dala Lama is the “leader” of a group subversive to the government in a movement that has costed thousands of lives. As far as they are concerned he is them what OBL is/was to the US.

 

[Kit15]

*Originally Posted by Kit15 View Post
My feelings too. My reaction was more of “Whoa!..wow…” I don’t feel like celebrating…I feel kinda…melancholy (not sad)…contemplative over his existence and what he did…and just having this overwhelming urge to pray.
*
I second that feeling Kit15. Celebrating anyone’s death is ‘unchristian’. We must always remeber to love the sinner and not the sin.

OBL has met his Judge. He led an unexamined life .

I pray that his death does not result in retaliation from his supporters.
**
“In the face of a man’s death, a Christian never rejoices, but reflects on the serious responsibilities of each person before God and before men, and hopes and works so that every event may be the occasion for the further growth of peace and not of hatred,” the spokesman said." FR FREDERICO LOMBARDI ON THE DEATH OF OBL**

Well…don’t misunderstand me. I never meant to imply it was “unchristian”. It actually strikes me as a natural and understandable response…something that may change over time. “Melancholic” has been my reaction to hearing his name and seeing his face for years. Just this sense of “Wow…there someone in this world who is actually very *very *evil. I need to pray for him and for the world.” But that did not start on 9/11/2001. That day I was very upset, panicked, angry, and distraught and I wasn’t doing much praying at all. After I got home I didn’t want to leave my room (I was 17). Not even for Church. That was just my initial reaction to it all.

Likewise I think celebrating is an emotional reaction to this event…a reaction to all the sorrow he brought to so many people. Eventually it will calm as well and we will attempt to return to our lives.

I was very fortunate not to lose anyone. But I did have an uncle in one of the towers, several of my relatives were eyewitnesses, and I had friends that suffered loses. Many of them have waited for this day to feel SOME closure. I can’t blame *anyone *for not wanting to pray for him now. But who knows what one may feel compelled to do in time.

 

[SamH]

For the moment I will make the assumption that our forces were too professional to mistakenly shoot an unarmed man.
That would mean purpose and implies orders from higher.
Perhaps the initial report that they went in to kill and not capture was correct.

And that would be a violation of the law.

What law?

I think the US was perfectly “justified” in having OBL killed, but the president is trying to have it both ways. He speaks of “justice”, but this was not an act of justice - at least not in the manner of the American judicial system. It goes back to the original problem, the current and last democrat administrations try to make the terrorism issue a legal issue while the last Republican administration treated it like a war. Obama wanted him dead but wanted him dead in a manner that absolved him and his administration of any “war like” act, hence the official word is OBL refused to surrender and was killed by a soldier in self defense. A nice tidy little “accomplishment” with no muss or fuss, until people ask a few questions. Expect it to take years before the video of this adventure is released and if it is, expect the Seal team member that killed OBL at Obama’s express order to be charged with killing an unarmed man.

 

[vz71]

Perhaps the initial report that they went in to kill and not capture was correct.

And that would be a violation of the law.

What law?

President Ford issued Executive Order 11905 Section 5(g) states: “No employee of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, political assassination.”

President Ronald Reagan issued Executive Order 12333 Part 2.11 states “No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.”

I suspect these orders will become very unpopular in the next few days.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

We rarely share the same viewpoint, Scott but I have to salute you on this one. This may have been a necessary action, but there’s nothing gleeful about it and we need to pray specifically for everyone involved in the action and its planning.

I’ve been on the delivery end of an M4. Its a hell of a thing, knowing that as soon as the trigger is pulled, you have extiguished the light in someone. Plus, being a Corpsman, I’ve seen what happens when a piece of copper plated lead flying at 3,000 feet per second make contact with human flesh. It is a memory that will haunt you forever.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

President Ford issued Executive Order 11905 Section 5(g) states: “No employee of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, political assassination.”

President Ronald Reagan issued Executive Order 12333 Part 2.11 states “No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.”

I suspect these orders will become very unpopular in the next few days.

All they have to say is that Obama order bin Laden taken and he was killed while resisting capture. OR, issue a new executive order recinding the previous executive orders.

 

[vz71]

All they have to say is that Obama order bin Laden taken and he was killed while resisting capture. OR, issue a new executive order recinding the previous executive orders.

I doubt they will issue another executive order to rescind the first two.

It would be too politically costly.

As to the idea that he was killed while resisting capture, likely.
And the tapes will be suppressed as classified information until everyone is out of the law’s reach.

Or the tapes could be released now, and stop all speculation concerning the legality of the incident.

Which do you think is likely?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I doubt they will issue another executive order to rescind the first two.

It would be too politically costly.

As to the idea that he was killed while resisting capture, likely.
And the tapes will be suppressed as classified information until everyone is out of the law’s reach.

Or the tapes could be released now, and stop all speculation concerning the legality of the incident.

Which do you think is likely?

Someone will lie. They are politicians after all. That is how they get where they are.

 

[vz71]

Someone will lie. They are politicians after all. That is how they get where they are.

 

[SamH]

I doubt they will issue another executive order to rescind the first two.

It would be too politically costly.

As to the idea that he was killed while resisting capture, likely.
And the tapes will be suppressed as classified information until everyone is out of the law’s reach.

Or the tapes could be released now, and stop all speculation concerning the legality of the incident.

Which do you think is likely?

Agreed.

The video of this will be suppressed, everyone will agree to the truth that has not been proven a lie until it is convenient for a new truth to emerge.

 

[The_Reginator]

This link was posted early on this thread. It is worth a thoughtful read:
If You’re Pro-Life, You Must Pray For Osama bin Laden

And also:
Vatican says bin Laden’s death cause for reflection, not rejoicing.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Here is some commentary on the final destination of Bin Laden. I know some do not agree with Conte on other issues (he is also a member of CAF), but his commentary is worth reading and considering.

Catholic commentary on the death of UBL
ronconte.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/catholic-commentary-on-the-death-of-bin-laden/

More Catholic commentary on the death of UBL
ronconte.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/catholic-commentary-on-the-death-of-bin-laden/

 

[seekerz]

Here is some commentary on the final destination of Bin Laden. I know some do not agree with Conte on other issues (he is also a member of CAF), but his commentary is worth reading and considering.

Catholic commentary on the death of UBL
ronconte.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/catholic-commentary-on-the-death-of-bin-laden/

More Catholic commentary on the death of UBL
ronconte.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/catholic-commentary-on-the-death-of-bin-laden/

I don’t really get the comparison with the blessed in Heaven rejoicing over justice being meted out on those in hell; both groups of souls know who’s where but the point is that we don’t have that full knowledge, so on what basis would we rejoice in bin Laden’s death?

Are we supposed to presume to know the state of his soul at the moment of death? I know I can’t. The most I can do is rejoice that God is great and that He has the power to lift up and to pull down.

If St Michael himself watched what he said to the devil (Jude 1:9), who am I to be presumptuous?

 

[SwizzleStick]

I don’t really get the comparison with the blessed in Heaven rejoicing over justice being meted out on those in hell; both groups of souls know who’s where but the point is that we don’t have that full knowledge, so on what basis would we rejoice in bin Laden’s death?

Are we supposed to presume to know the state of his soul at the moment of death? I know I can’t. The most I can do is rejoice that God is great and that He has the power to lift up and to pull down. …

I personally trust in God’s perfect justice. We all know He got it right, even if we don’t yet know the outcome, so I rejoice in that. I trust that, so I personally am not really thinking too much about Bin Laden’s final destination. Bottom line, Bin Laden chose his own destination with his life choices and God’s perfect justice allowed it.

So, where is Bin Laden now? Only God knows, but it has been a topic of conversaton in this thread, so when I found the commentary, I decided to share because it makes some valid points. I discerned truth in it. You perhaps did not. Bottom line for me is that I trust God’s perfect justice.

I’m still not celebrating the death of BL, nor am I praying for him. I am, however, very pleased that that evil man can no longer kill any more innocent people and I am also pleased knowing that he has answered to God for his choices.

I am praying for America.

 

[WayCoolAtheist]

What law?
expect the Seal team member that killed OBL at Obama’s express order to be charged with killing an unarmed man.

There is no grand jury that would indict on this.

 

[SamH]

There is no grand jury that would indict on this.

It wouldn’t go to a grand jury.