OSAS and ephesians 4:30

[christcnection1]

Continued…

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (Revelations 3:5)

He can’t blot out your name unless it was already in the book of life.

6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. (Matthew 15:6-10)

You must abide in His love. If you do not, you are cast into the fire. How do you abide? You keep His commandments. What if you don’t obey His commands until the end? I don’t want to find out.

14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.(Matthew 6:13-15)

What will happen if you do not forgive others? I don’t want to find out.

16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”
18"Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,’[d] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[e]"
20"All these I have kept," the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”(Matthew 19:16-21)

If we want to enter eternal life we must obey the commandments. That sounds reasonable enough. What if I stop following His commandment a few days before I die? Well, I personally don’t want to find out.

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us (2 Timothy 2:10-12)

What happens if we start to deny Him and then we die? I’m not sure I want to find out.

8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.(Philippians 38-14)

Does this sound like OSAS Absolute Assurance? I don’t think so.

Sorry my friend, but I cannot buy into OSAS. I wish I could; I just can’t bring myself to do it. If I did, I would have no assurance that I am accurately interpreting the Bible.

And in case you weren’t sure, we do believe in a version of predestination, but it’s quite different from a Calvinist version.

Hey, but I guess we can agree to disagree. I just encourage you to keep loving and following our Lord the best you can. I hope to see you on the other side.

catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9204fea2.asp

 

[sandusky]

christcnection1:

Not even if we stop loving Him?

Romans 8:35

***Who will separate us from the love of Christ?..***A rhetorical question; expected answer? No one; it is a comprehensive statement; no one, not even the believer.
christcnection:

I would be curious how you interpret these verses

I’m sure you are; but let’s work on understanding the Romans 8 passage first; unless you’re not curious about that.

 

[deb1]

Romans 8:35***Who will separate us from the love of Christ?..***A rhetorical question; expected answer? No one; it is a comprehensive statement; no one, not even the believer.

I’m sure you are; but let’s work on understanding the Romans 8 passage first; unless you’re not curious about that.

If I told my husband no one will separate me from you, that doesn’t mean that he couldn’t on his own leave me. My statement would only mean that I wouldn’t let others come between us. The same thing is occurring in the passage. Notice that in the rest of the chapter Paul list a series of influences outside the believer that can’t separate one from God, but he never says that the believer’s own actions can’t separate him/her from God.

 

[Linkowski]

This is the problem with proof texts… they can be taken out of context of what the whole bible is teaching.

What the bible is teaching is that God’s promise of salvation is eternal and will never be taken away, it is a free gift for us.

But we can refuse this gift, or walk away from it through mortal sin.

But if we repent of our sins, the gift of salvation is still available to us. Jesus doesn’t need to be re-crucified, he died once and for all.

In the Old Testament, they would have to sacrifice over and over to be forgiven of sins, but that is no longer the case.

Now if we come to accept Jesus, and are saved, but then fall away from the faith through sin, we are walking away from this gift of salvation. But all we have to do is to be truly sorry of our sins, confess and ask for forgiveness and we will again be in posession of the gift of salvation.

We can lose our Salvation, but we can not lose the promise of salvation.

I think if you will look at this in the context of Romans chapter nine and then the mutiple passages that speak of unconditional election, you will then understand it more clearly…let us look at some of the passages that are supporting this theology…

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that **no man can come unto me, except **it were given unto him of my Father.

Joh 6:44 **No man can come to me, except **the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

Acts 13:48 NAS95 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, **because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation **through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

(cont’d)

 

[Linkowski]

(cont’d)

Ro 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy…
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me,* Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?*

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

WE ARE CALLED THE ELECT OF GOD

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

2 Peter 1:10 NAS95 10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;

1 Peter 5:13 KJV 13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them **who are the called **according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Romans 8:33 Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;

Acts 16:14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; **and the Lord opened her heart to respond **to the things spoken by Paul.

And there is more…no more room.

 

[Linkowski]

I think this doesn’t interpret the NT properly. Along with many assurances of salvation, the writers in the NT warn salvation can also be lost in various ways. Later doctrine in the Church attempted to deal with how serious sin in the community after baptism could be dealt with, after which theoretically there is no salvation. Public penance was common, followed by the sacrament of confession in later centuries. Generally the OSAS is a Reformed doctrine, based on the notion of Predestination by God’s irrestiable grace and decree of his will, in that a select few of elect have been ordained by God before creation to be saved, while the rest are also ordained to be damned. OSAS also came into Catholicism by Jansenism, though the problem is and was because it was God who decreed who would be saved, no-one could truely know if it was they who were saved or damned, or someone else. OSAS actually didn’t result in assurance but rather a very gloomy and morbid fear of God’s wrath and damnation to the point people had little or no sense of his mercy or love, as because we are predestined to either damnation or salvation, we cannot know if we are truely saved in the end or damned, and either way, there is nothing we can do; at best, good works result from the fruit of someone who is elect, but that doesn’t prove beyond a doubt that person will be saved or must be saved. A person can hope they are saved, and they will have the final grace of perseverance, but there is no objective way to know they actually have it.

At least the co-operative grace view gives humans freedom to respond to God who reveals himself in revelation.

Nobody can lose their salvation…there is no such thing - there is only the loss of what one seems to have had or has perceived to have had…but never had it…we are told in the context of the famous mortal sin verse…

1 John 5:16-19 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death. 18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. 19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Nobody who is truly born again and of the elect will fall into this sin. This is someone who has tested of the heavenly gift - been enlightened - and had knowledge of the gospel and then completely rejects it. They were never born again - never saved…

1 John 3:5-6 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

This is speaking of knowingly sinning and enjoying it without conviction or chastisement. One who does this has NEVER known God…

3 John 1:11 Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God.

They only seemingly lose salvation but they never had it…after the parable of the sower we see this statement…

Luke 8:18 “So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even** what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him**.”

 

[sandusky]

deb1:

If I told my husband no one will separate me from you, that doesn’t mean that he couldn’t on his own leave me. My statement would only mean that I wouldn’t let others come between us. The same thing is occurring in the passage.

No, it’s not.

You don’t have the power to keep others from coming between you, and your husband; God has the power to keep anyone, or anything, including the believer from coming between the love He has for the believer, and the believer himself, including keeping the believer from leaving; thus the question in v31, literally "…God for us; who against us?"

Paul’s point? Who, or what is more powerful than God? Are you?

None of the things that Paul listed, which is essentially, anything, and everything has more power than God; why else would Paul be so comprehensive in his list? It’s a Hebraism, like, “how often do I forgive, 7 times?”

Christ said, “No, 70 x 7.” IOW, no limit.

deb1:

Notice that in the rest of the chapter Paul list a series of influences outside the believer that can’t separate one from God, but he never says that the believer’s own actions can’t separate him/her from God.

Nothing, no one, not even the believer—no limit to the things that cannot separate the believer from the love of God for the believer, in Christ.

 

[Pax]

Nobody can lose their salvation…there is no such thing - there is only the loss of what one seems to have had or has perceived to have had…but never had it…we are told in the context of the famous mortal sin verse…
Where does it say this in scripture?

1 John 5:16-19 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death. 18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. 19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Nobody who is truly born again and of the elect will fall into this sin. This is someone who has tested of the heavenly gift - been enlightened - and had knowledge of the gospel and then completely rejects it. They were never born again - never saved…
This is merely your spin which is clearly contradicted in Hebrews 10:29-30 which says: “How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, "The Lord will judge his people.” Also see 2 Peter 2: 20-22

1 John 3:5-6 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.This verse really hurts your case. The word abides means “remains.” Try reading all of John’s letters with this in mind. John clearly denies OSAS.

This is speaking of knowingly sinning and enjoying it without conviction or chastisement. One who does this has NEVER known God…

3 John 1:11 Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God.

They only seemingly lose salvation but they never had it…after the parable of the sower we see this statement…

Luke 8:18 “So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even** what he thinks he has **shall be taken away from him.”

I would suggest that you read the parable of the sower over again. The parable clearly denies OSAS as well.

 

[Pax]

…
…

Nothing, no one, not even the believer—no limit to the things that cannot separate the believer from the love of God for the believer, in Christ.

The word abide in John’s letters means “to remain.” Keep this in mind when reading the following:

1 John 2: 24-25
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you.* If *what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he has promised us, eternal life.

2 John 9-11
Any one who goes ahead and **does not abide **in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; **he who abides **in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son. If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; for he who greets him shares his wicked work.

Now read what James has to say about a believer that is living in sin:

James 5: 19-20
My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way** will save his soul from death** and will cover a multitude of sins.

Please don’t tell me that this sinner’s wandering from the truth didn’t separate him from God. If this sinner did not come back from the error of his ways, his soul would not have been saved from death.

I could go on and on with scripture that denies the doctrine of OSAS. If you want all the passages that deny the doctrine, I’ll be glad to send them to you via email.

 

[Pax]

[Sigh…………….ahh]

First, in the passages you cite from Revelation, Jesus does not say, as you interpret Him saying, ”if we do not conquer…we are lost.”

Rather, what Jesus says is, ”To him who conquers, I will, shall, make, grant, give to him…” whatever He will, shall, make, grant, give to him.

In those passages, Jesus affirms what Paul says in Rom 8:32:He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, ***how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?***You say, He will not if we don’t conquer…”

But what does Paul say in Rom 8:37?:But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer…Literally in the Greek, ”We are more than conquerors.”

And, all what things—what is Paul talking about ”in all these things?”

Why, it’s all of things he’s listed in vv33-39

VV 35–39 celebrates the love of God in Christ for us.

It is as impossible to separate us from that love, Paul says, as it is to bring a charge against us. No earthly peril or disaster can do so (35b–36).

Though such suffering can be expected, as Paul reminds us with his quotation of Ps. 44:22, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. Nor can any spiritual power separate us from God’s love (angels, demons and powers in v 38).

Indeed, there is nothing in all creation that can remove us from the new regime in which God’s love in Christ reigns over us.

:extrahappy:

This is unlike you. You are generally very logical but this time you are ignoring the obvious. Please read the quotations again and even read them in the context of the chapters they are drawn from. It is quite clear that those that conquer are those that have not “soiled their garments.” Are you trying to tell me that all of those spoken of in these passages that have soiled their garments and have not repented as Jesus demands are going to heaven?

In Revelation 22:14 Jesus says “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.” Just prior to this Jesus says in Rev 22:11-12 “Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.” “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done.”

Believers that have soiled their robes and have not washed them will not enter heaven. We know this because Revelation says that “nothing unclean will enter heaven.” Likewise, Revelation and Paul in his letters tell us that “…the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”[Rev 21:8, & Ephesians 5:5-6] Any believer that abandons his faith or is unrepentent in any of the listed sins will be in the lake of fire and will not enter heaven.

OSAS is denied by these and many other passages of scripture.

 

[anthony022071]

Romans 11,17-24 shows that those who have been saved by grace may be cut off if they do not remain in God’s kindness.

 

[TheApologist]

Romans 11,17-24 shows that those who have been saved by grace may be cut off if they do not remain in God’s kindness.

One could also argue that the verses Mt 7:21, Mt 24:13, Phil 2:12, 1 Cor 9:27, 1 Cor 10:11-12, Gal 5:4, 2 Tim 2:11-13, Heb 6:4-6, and Heb 10:26-27 would disprove OSAS.

Mt 7:21 says those who do the will of the Father will inherit the kingdom of God, not those who just say “Lord, Lord.”

Mt 24:13 says those who persevere to the end will be saved. Not those who simply have faith in one instant and accept the Lord as personal Savior.

Phil 2:12 says “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” It is saying that salvation comes through working out in a process, not in an instant. You might say you can work out your salvation in an instant, but that’s not what the verse says. An instant does not occur over a period of time described as “always” or described as being during Paul’s absence AND presence.

In 1 Cor 9:27 Paul says that he subdues his body lest he be disqualified. Don’t you think, if OSAS theology were true, Paul would have been saved by the time he wrote 1 Cor 9:27? How, then, would he be disqualified?

1 Cor 10:11-12 says that those that think they stand should take heed lest they fall. How can one fall in OSAS theology once they have stood?

Gal 5:4 says that you can fall away from grace and be severed from Christ. In OSAS theology, once you have received grace you have eternal security…how does Paul say this in this book?

2 Tim 2:11-13 says those who endure will reign with Christ. This naturally denotes that those who don’t endure won’t reign with him.

Heb 6:4-6 says “4: For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.” Tell me…what more describers one who has been “saved” in your picture than one who has been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, the word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and been a partaker of the Holy Spirit? This shows that one can be “saved” by the definition of Protestants and the individual…in other words, one can have a truly “born-again” experience where they experience the Spirit, and apostize and crucify the Lord.

Heb 10:26-27 says “For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.” Tell me, what more encompasses the definition of one being “saved” than one being in the sacrifice for sins? This verse tells us that it is possible that one may NOT remain in the sacrifice for sins. In fact, it says one who sins(mortally, it seems) one can go to hell- the consuming fury of fire.

Sorry to the OP for this thread going so off-topic from ephesians 4:30. We should probably hurry it back to ephesians for on-topicness’s sake. Once again, I say sorry, that is if the OP wanted to remain on Eph 4:30.

 

[sandusky]

pax:

This is unlike you. You are generally very logical but this time you are ignoring the obvious. Please read the quotations again and even read them in the context of the chapters they are drawn from. It is quite clear that those that conquer are those that have not “soiled their garments.”

Correct, Pax; the elect do not have “soiled garments.”

pax:

Are you trying to tell me that all of those spoken of in these passages that have soiled their garments and have not repented as Jesus demands are going to heaven?

I don’t believe that I said anything about either soiled garments, or repentance in my reply to your post; and neither did you say anything about either soiled garments, or repentance in your post to which I replied; right?

Your post was about the good things given by Christ to those who conquer; isn’t that correct? But you can check both posts, and correct me if I’m wrong.

If you disagree with what I’ve said in that post, than tear apart what I’ve said, from that post, rather than bringing in another bunch of verses, and raising another bunch of issues, that were raised neither in the post to which I replied, nor in my reply.

Once we’ve settled those objections, we can move on to other issues, and other verses.

 

[sandusky]

Romans 11,17-24 shows that those who have been saved by grace may be cut off if they do not remain in God’s kindness.

So, you have no objections to what I’ve said about Rom 8?

 

[sandusky]

The word abide in John’s letters means “to remain.” Keep this in mind when reading the following:

1 John 2: 24-25
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you.* If *what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he has promised us, eternal life.

2 John 9-11
Any one who goes ahead and **does not abide **in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; **he who abides **in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son. If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; for he who greets him shares his wicked work.

Now read what James has to say about a believer that is living in sin:

James 5: 19-20
My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way** will save his soul from death** and will cover a multitude of sins.

Please don’t tell me that this sinner’s wandering from the truth didn’t separate him from God. If this sinner did not come back from the error of his ways, his soul would not have been saved from death.

I could go on and on with scripture that denies the doctrine of OSAS. If you want all the passages that deny the doctrine, I’ll be glad to send them to you via email.

The elect will always abide in Christ; the elect will always repent of their sin; the elect will not be lost; that is why they are called the elect.

Even your Church teaches election to glorification for some.

No limit to things that cannot separate the elect from God.

 

[Linkowski]

I would suggest that you read the parable of the sower over again. The parable clearly denies OSAS as well.

Context issue:

If you wish to call the first two saved…may I again assert to you that the those that fell on the rock and those that fell among thorns did not hear properly - and what they THINK they have is taken away from them.

Luke 8:18 “So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him.”

OSAS is true and only applied to the elect - all others will never be saved…

John 6:44 "**No one can come to Me unless **the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

John 17:2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.

Only the elect can come…all others are bad fish…

Matthew 13:47-50 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind; 48 and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. 49 "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Linkowski]

The word abide in John’s letters means “to remain.” Keep this in mind when reading the following:

1 John 2: 24-25
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you.* If *what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he has promised us, eternal life.

2 John 9-11
Any one who goes ahead and **does not abide **in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; **he who abides **in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son. If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; for he who greets him shares his wicked work.

Now read what James has to say about a believer that is living in sin:

James 5: 19-20
My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way** will save his soul from death** and will cover a multitude of sins.

Please don’t tell me that this sinner’s wandering from the truth didn’t separate him from God. If this sinner did not come back from the error of his ways, his soul would not have been saved from death.

I could go on and on with scripture that denies the doctrine of OSAS. If you want all the passages that deny the doctrine, I’ll be glad to send them to you via email.

James 5 scripture is God’s means of keeping the elect…please remember that a just man falls seven times but God upholds him with His hand. Please remember that…

Proverbs 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Also note…that if one abides or remains not in the doctrine of Christ - He hath not God…He did not lose God - he hath not God…

2 John 1:9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.

And, as I mentioned before…

1 John 3:6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

 

[Linkowski]

Romans 11,17-24 shows that those who have been saved by grace may be cut off if they do not remain in God’s kindness.

Matthew 15:13 But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted.

The elect will never fall away!!

Mark 13:22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

Matthew 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

The elect are infallibly saved - those that fall away never were saved.

 

[Linkowski]

The elect will always abide in Christ; the elect will always repent of their sin; the elect will not be lost; that is why they are called the elect.

Even your Church teaches election to glorification for some.

No limit to things that cannot separate the elect from God.

 

[runandsew]

I think if you will look at this in the context of Romans chapter nine and then the mutiple passages that speak of unconditional election, you will then understand it more clearly…let us look at some of the passages that are supporting this theology…

Yes, I believe all those passages, but I don’t accept your conclusion.
You need to factor in all the many passages that have been mentioned about losing ones salvation. You just can’t ignore them because they seem to contradict how you are interpreting these other passages.

It is quite clear if scripture, that one can walk away from salvation.
If one passage says that God has choosen you, and that you will have enternal life, but another says that you should be careful not to be cut off from the olive tree, Well doggone it, it means that you have to be faithful until the end.

That is why Jesus said to be ready, because the judge will come like a thief in the night.
And Paul said that you (a believing Christian) could be cut off, if you fall away from the faith. They didn’t say this because they were getting paid by the word when they wrote the books of the Bible, they wrote it for a reason. And that is to warn us to live a faithfilled obedient life.

OSAS is a very dangerous doctrine for the Christian, it could lure them into a false security that could adversly affect their salavtion.

I would go as far to say that it is the work of the evil one, because it sounds quite a bit to me like the serpent telling Eve, “Surely you will not die”. And I will not fall for it, I will continue to rededicate my self to Christ daily, by walking the walk, and staying clear of Sin as much as I can, and when I do fall into sin, which I know that I will, I will confess it, ask for God’s forgiveness, and repent. All of this with Christ’s help since I can’t do it on my own.