OSAS disturbed once and for all

[HailMary]

OSAS - Once Saved, Always Saved affirms that the moment a person places their faith in Jesus Christ as their “personal Lord and Savior” (or some variant of this phrase), and believes He is the Son of God, their salvation is guaranteed, and nothing they do or say can change this reality.

Here are some objections that are note worthy:

Protestants misunderstand Salvation as a "instance in time"
salvation is a 3-dimensional reality with past, present, and future componets:

PAST:
Titus 3:5

he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Eph. 2:5-8

even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ 5 (by grace you have been saved), raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;

PRESENT:
1 Cor. 1:8

He will keep you firm to the end, irreproachable on the day of our Lord Jesus (Christ).

2 Cor. 2:15

For we are the aroma of Christ for God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,

FUTURE:
Rom. 5:9-10

How much more then, since we are now justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath. Indeed, if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, once reconciled, will we be saved by his life.

1 Cor. 3:12-15

If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.

If OSAS were true, what is the point of God’s judgment after you die?

OSAS is at odds with what St. Paul teaches since the Saint says,
Romans 13:11

And do this because you know the time; it is the hour now for you to awake from sleep. For our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed

First believed in what? This is SAINT PAUL telling you that his “initial belief” has made his salvation “closer”; not that it has been sealed for eternity.

And lastly, OSAS is anti-biblical since you KNOW heaven is “yours” after you have been “saved”
Romans 8:24

For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees?

God Bless

*sidenote: if I were a protestant woman, I would not use contraception since clearly the scriptures teach,
1 Tim 2:15

But she will be saved through motherhood, provided women persevere in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

yet, anther reason why contraception is wrong…it blocks, in an unnatural way, a path of salvation for women.

 

[HailMary]

I’m glad to see that there is nobody that believes in OSAS anymore!

 

[Linkowski]

I’m glad to see that there is nobody that believes in OSAS anymore!

Hardly, friend.

What you will not realize is that the three dimensions are split into Justification (past), sanctification (present), and glorification (future). I will be brief and present the golden chain of salvation…

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And you will not accept scriptures such as Hebrews 3:14…

Hebrews 3:14 NAS95 14 For we **have become **partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Which presents perseverance as an evidence of salvation and not a condition (although we are also told that we MUST persevere).

You also will not read Romans Chapter 9 properly which shows that the elect (chosen) are chosen from before the foundation of the world…therefore, once they come to faith, it is done - once saved always saved. See the thread…Evangelicals - How do you know you have saving faith. I have shown this quite explictly.

 

[cargopilot]

For me, the concept of OSAS just seems impossible and illogical. Clearly I just don’t understand how OSAS could be a workable path to salvation for a human being.

I’m a sinner and everyone I know are sinners, too. OSAS seems to imply that once saved, your salvation is guaranteed, no matter what you do days, weeks or years after that day you accept Jesus as your "personal " savior. How does the protestant Christian who favors OSAS reconcile the human frailty? Do they never sin, again? Or, if they do sin at any point after they’re saved, were they never saved in the first place? Should the protestant Christian somehow ever fall into sin, do they need to get saved all over again?

Maybe someone who believes that their salvation is guaranteed for all time, because of what happened on a particular point in time, could explain, in words a simple-minded person like me could understand. Please remember that as a Catholic, I don’t get into the business of personal interpretation of the bible, so keep it simple.

 

[HailMary]

Hardly, friend.

What you will not realize is that the three dimensions are split into Justification (past), sanctification (present), and glorification (future). I will be brief and present the golden chain of salvation…

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And you will not accept scriptures such as Hebrews 3:14…

Hebrews 3:14 NAS95 14 For we **have become **partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Which presents perseverance as an evidence of salvation and not a condition (although we are also told that we MUST persevere).

You also will not read Romans Chapter 9 properly which shows that the elect (chosen) are chosen from before the foundation of the world…therefore, once they come to faith, it is done - once saved always saved. See the thread…Evangelicals - How do you know you have saving faith. I have shown this quite explictly.

Just curious what you do with the versus I quoted; for starters Romans 13:11

 

[Linkowski]

Just curious what you do with the versus I quoted; for starters Romans 13:11

Please view in light of my posting…

 

[deb1]

Just curious what you do with the versus I quoted; for starters Romans 13:11

If he is like my former pastor, he will completly ignore them.

 

[Linkowski]

If he is like my former pastor, he will completly ignore them.

I have studied every one of your scriptures you will bring in light of the context of all scripture. Almost returned to teh CC 3 times…I have settled it.

 

[deb1]

Please view in light of my posting…

So, the bible contradicts itself? We should just ignore those verses that contradict OSAS?

 

[deb1]

I have studied every one of your scriptures you will bring in light of the context of all scripture. Almost returned to teh CC 3 times…I have settled it.

Then explain the OP’s original verses. You can’t throw out additional verses and have us pay attention, if you can’t answer the first posters verses’. We will just go in circles other wise.

 

[MariaG]

Hardly, friend.

What you will not realize is that the three dimensions are split into Justification (past), sanctification (present), and glorification (future). I will be brief and present the golden chain of salvation…

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And you will not accept scriptures such as Hebrews 3:14…

Hebrews 3:14 NAS95 14 For we **have become **partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Which presents perseverance as an evidence of salvation and not a condition (although we are also told that we MUST persevere).

You also will not read Romans Chapter 9 properly which shows that the elect (chosen) are chosen from before the foundation of the world…therefore, once they come to faith, it is done - once saved always saved. See the thread…Evangelicals - How do you know you have saving faith. I have shown this quite explictly.

Respectfully, you have only shown quite clearly that the warnings of scripture should be taken very seriously. Specifically that Paul’s writings can be hard to understand.

May God keep you safe.

Maria

 

[deb1]

Hardly, friend.

What you will not realize is that the three dimensions are split into Justification (past), sanctification (present), and glorification (future). I will be brief and present the golden chain of salvation…

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And you will not accept scriptures such as Hebrews 3:14…

Hebrews 3:14 NAS95 14 For we **have become **partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Which presents perseverance as an evidence of salvation and not a condition (although we are also told that we MUST persevere).

You also will not read Romans Chapter 9 properly which shows that the elect (chosen) are chosen from before the foundation of the world…therefore, once they come to faith, it is done - once saved always saved. See the thread…Evangelicals - How do you know you have saving faith. I have shown this quite explictly.

Well let’s start with the easy verse. Hebrews is proving the Catholic and many Protestants’ view…Notice that it says,* For we have become partakers of Chrst, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance until the end. *

As far as reading Romans 9 properly…I read the whole bible and take things in context with the entire book. Most people here,by the way, have read Romans 9.

 

[MariaG]

I have studied every one of your scriptures you will bring in light of the context of all scripture. Almost returned to teh CC 3 times…I have settled it.

May God have mercy on your soul.

And I pary that your presence here is by the prompting of the Holy Spirit, not for the reason you probably think, our salvation, but for your own.

Maria

 

[Pax]

Linkowski,

I have personally researched in excess of sixty verses that flatly refute OSAS. You mentioned the context of all of scripture. Please be advised that the context of scripture including the sixty passages that I can provide to you clearly deny OSAS.

 

[Linkowski]

Respectfully, you have only shown quite clearly that the warnings of scripture should be taken very seriously. Specifically that Paul’s writings can be hard to understand.

May God keep you safe.

Maria

Thank you for your prayer of mercy…

Hebrews 3:14 For we **have become **partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Please explain why this scripture shows stedfastness as being an evidence of salvation - not only a condition. Marry the two now…OR twist the meaning of this one to mean what you like.

God ordains the END of the salvation of the elect - AS WELL AS the MEANS

 

[Linkowski]

Linkowski,

I have personally researched in excess of sixty verses that flatly refute OSAS. You mentioned the context of all of scripture. Please be advised that the context of scripture including the sixty passages that I can provide to you clearly deny OSAS.

Please explain my posting - Thanks

 

[deb1]

Respectfully, you have only shown quite clearly that the warnings of scripture should be taken very seriously. Specifically that Paul’s writings can be hard to understand.

May God keep you safe.

Maria

Imagine that someone gave you a very thick book, like Les Miserables by Hugo(excellent read) The person tells you that the entire book is about winning the lottery and they use this sentence to prove their point. “Win in the lottery and you are an able man,”

No matter how you insist that there is more to the novel, they come back to that one verse and refuse to listen to any of the books other sentences.

By the way, the the sentence that I quoted is actually a section of Les Miserables that is discussing the fact that the world has low standards for considering a man succesful. Hugo is saying that success doesn’t always mean that one has merit or talent. But if I only went by one sentence, I would completly misunderstand a wonderful book.

 

[deb1]

Thank you for your prayer of mercy…

Hebrews 3:14 For we **have become **partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Please explain why this scripture shows stedfastness as being an evidence of salvation - not only a condition. Marry the two now…OR twist the meaning of this one to mean what you like.

God ordains the END of the salvation of the elect - AS WELL AS the MEANS

Um…I thought that I answered this verse.

Okay, I agree steadfastness is a part of being saved. How ever does that prove your point? It disproves OSAS. If you aren’t steadfast then you loose salvation.

 

[Linkowski]

Um…I thought that I answered this verse.

Okay, I agree steadfastness is a part of being saved. How ever does that prove your point? It disproves OSAS. If you aren’t steadfast then you loose salvation.

On the contrary…it says - if you have become IN CHRIST…you will persevere. If you say any other thing - you are twisting scripture.

It is like saying - you will persevere if you have become a partaker of Christ. The key words here are HAVE BECOME.

Perfected, justified, forgiven, sanctified (and being sanctified)…Linkowski

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

 

[deb1]

Please explain my posting - Thanks

first understand, I am not trying to be rude but I am afraid due to the limits of the written word, I might come off that way. So, I apologize ahead of time.

If your child does something wrong and you ask them why they did something bad, you expect them to give you some sort of answer. But instead if your child responds with a question. You are going to be offended and rightly so. Your child is being rude.

You are doing the same thing. The first post had verses that you have to answer before you put up new ones. To do otherwise seems a bit like you are unable to explain the verses.