OSAS does grace place us above Gods commandments

[sara888]

****‘Since Christ died once for all, the perfect sacrifice for sin, God no longer sees your sin, but only His Son through whom you have forgiveness by faith through grace!’

Sounds good and has some basics in scripture, but it disregards the warnings of God and the free will of man. Yes, Grace saves you through faith, not of works, but that DOESN’T mean you have permission to continue in your sin! NOT GOING TO CHURCH OR FOLLOWING GODS COMMANDMENTS IS SIN.

(Rom6:1) And if you do, you WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of heaven. (Gal5:19-21, Eph5:5-7) Grace was NEVER meant to be a cloak for evil behavior. (1Pet2:16) Nor is it an accommodation to make up for lack of obedience to the faith.

(Rom1:5) Willful sin against a FULL & COMPLETE Knowledge of the truth was not tolerated under the law nor is it permitted under Grace. (Num.15:22-31, Heb10:26-28)
Willful and deliberate sin is presumptuous in God’s sight and MUST be very much the EXCEPTION in the life of a True follower of Jesus Christ. In fact, dying in an unrepentant state of immorality or unclean behavior would CERTAINLY result in eternal damnation. Otherwise God is a RESPECTOR of persons! (1Cor6:9-10, Col3:26, 1Pet1:17)

The Apostle Paul received Grace in abundance as the ‘Chief’ of sinners, (1Tim1:13-15) BECAUSE he sinned in IGNORANCE! Not against a ‘Full & complete Knowledge’ of the Truth. Under Grace those being lead into willful sin have strayed from the Narrow Road, fallen from their own secure position in Christ, into the error of the wicked. (2Pet3:17) This explains why so many professing Christians are hardened to the Word of God and obstinate of His Warnings. (Heb3:11-14 explains it .**
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” OSAS is a lie from the pit of hell. Don’t fall into its deadly trap.
Sara**

 

[sara888]

Being saved is being a part of Christ, becoming one with Christ, living in Christ, enduring in Christ, abiding in Christ, and walking in the spirit with Christ, and if you aren’t doing that, then you aren’t allowing the Holy Spirit to work in your life and mold and guide you, which means you are missing the signals, and therefore easy pray for satan to deceive.

 

[Magicsilence]

youre converting the converted

 

[EA_Man]

**Being saved is being a part of Christ, becoming one with Christ, living in Christ, enduring in Christ, abiding in Christ, and walking in the spirit with Christ, and if you aren’t doing that, **

then you are dead. There are only two kinds of people in the world when everything is said and done; there are those that are born again in Christ and those that are dead in Adam. That’s it.

The question becomes what happens when one get born again in Christ. The answer is that the old man in Adam is put to death.

I Corinthians 4:17: “If any man is in Christ, He is a new creation. Old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new.”

Your salvation was never based on anything you did. So, you cannot lose it by anything you do. Salvation is life that, by definition, cannot be lost. It isn’t the KIND of life that can be lost, and neither is it received in a way that can be reversed.

If I am saved, I got that way by giving my life to Christ. Conversion is a change of direction. Repentance is a change of mind – towards God. By definition, and by their nature, these things are not reversible. The Godly sorrow that leads to repentance – if it is real – is not something that is possible to disavow.

Peace

 

[Mickey]

EA_Man:

Your salvation was never based on anything you did.

It’s based on your choice to love God. God can do anything–except force you to love Him.

 

[EA_Man]

Mickey:

It’s based on your choice to love God. God can do anything–except force you to love Him.

True - Free Will is always in play.

Peace

 

[petra]

EA_Man:

then you are dead. There are only two kinds of people in the world when everything is said and done; there are those that are born again in Christ and those that are dead in Adam. That’s it.

The question becomes what happens when one get born again in Christ. The answer is that the old man in Adam is put to death.

I Corinthians 4:17: “If any man is in Christ, He is a new creation. Old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new.”

Your salvation was never based on anything you did. So, you cannot lose it by anything you do. Salvation is life that, by definition, cannot be lost. It isn’t the KIND of life that can be lost, and neither is it received in a way that can be reversed.

If I am saved, I got that way by giving my life to Christ. Conversion is a change of direction. Repentance is a change of mind – towards God. By definition, and by their nature, these things are not reversible. The Godly sorrow that leads to repentance – if it is real – is not something that is possible to disavow.

Peace

There is a distinction between a “work” and a response. We cannot work to merit salvation, but we must willingly and freely respond to Christ’s invitation. So in this regard, salvation is conditional (unless you believe the elect are already saved at conception and “accepting Christ” is just a formality–that is an absurdity of its own.) As we can freely respond favorably to the invitation of salvation, there is the possibility that we can later freely reject Christ directly or indirectly by resisting the energetic efforts of the Holy Spirit to keep us from serious sin.

How is repentence, by its own nature, something that is not reversible? How is a change of mind, by its own nature, something that is not reversible? The entire book of 1 John emphasizes the need to remain (abide) in Christ with the consequence of lost salvation if we do not. To “remain” in Christ, one must first be “in” Christ. These warnings are not directed to unsaved, unregenerate people.

 

[EA_Man]

petra:

How is repentence, by its own nature, something that is not reversible? How is a change of mind, by its own nature, something that is not reversible? The entire book of 1 John emphasizes the need to remain (abide) in Christ with the consequence of lost salvation if we do not. To “remain” in Christ, one must first be “in” Christ. These warnings are not directed to unsaved, unregenerate people.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (I Jn. 2:1)

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship
one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses
us from all sin. (I Jn. 1:7)

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (I Jn. 1:9)

 Now notice what it says here: The Blood of Christ cleanses us

from ALL sin. How much sin? ALL of it. Likewise, we are cleansed from ALL unrighteousness. How much unrighteousness? ALL
unrighteousness. No wonder there is NO condemnation for those
in Christ. There is no sin or unrighteousness there to condemn. It is finished!

“There is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.” (Rom. 8:1)

Peace

 

[Mickey]

EA_Man:

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship
one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses
us from all sin. (I Jn. 1:7)

What if we did walk in the light–and then later decide not to?

EA_Man:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (I Jn. 1:9)

What if we decide to stop confessing our sins?

Hebrews 6:4-6. For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

Hebrews 3:12-14. Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we share in Christ, if only we hold our first confidence firm to the end

 

[Steven_Merten]

EA_Man:

then you are dead. There are only two kinds of people in the world when everything is said and done; there are those that are born again in Christ and those that are dead in Adam. That’s it.

The question becomes what happens when one get born again in Christ. The answer is that the old man in Adam is put to death.

I Corinthians 4:17: “If any man is in Christ, He is a new creation. Old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new.”

Your salvation was never based on anything you did. So, you cannot lose it by anything you do. Salvation is life that, by definition, cannot be lost. It isn’t the KIND of life that can be lost, and neither is it received in a way that can be reversed.

If I am saved, I got that way by giving my life to Christ. Conversion is a change of direction. Repentance is a change of mind – towards God. By definition, and by their nature, these things are not reversible. The Godly sorrow that leads to repentance – if it is real – is not something that is possible to disavow.

Peace

Hello Eaman,

Jesus tells us that Abraham is in heaven. You say that the saved have “given their life to Christ”? How did Abraham do this? Did Abraham make the OSAS profession, “I accept Jesus as my personal Saviour.”? How did Abraham become “born again”?

I see God many times commanding us to obeying Him in the Old Testament. What I cannot find in OT is the OSAS philosophy that you are assuring me Old Testament teaches. Can you please show us the OT teachings of “faith alone”, “born again” and that obedience is not needed to recieve life?
NAB MAR 12:18

Then some **Sadducees who hold there is no resurrection **came to him with a question …\…12:24 Jesus said: “You are badly misled, because you fail to understand the Scriptures or the power of God. When people rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage but live like angels in heaven. As to the raising of the dead, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God told him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob’? He is the God of the living not of the dead, You are very much mistaken.” NAB LUK 13:28

And there will be wailing and grinding of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves cast out.

EA_Man:

Your salvation was never based on anything you did.

Hello Eaman,

Are you calling Jesus a liar? Jesus makes it clear that those who go to heaven through Him will be judged on their conduct. Will Jesus judge people into heaven (through Him) or Hell based on conduct?

NAB JOH 5:27
"The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned." NAB REV 22:12

“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! **Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life **and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood.” NAB MAT 25:41

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

[EA_Man]

Mickey:

What if we did walk in the light–and then later decide not to?

What if we decide to stop confessing our sins?

Hebrews 6:4-6. For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

Hebrews 3:12-14. Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we share in Christ, if only we hold our first confidence firm to the end

Look at the condition of these people who are in danger of eternal loss – they were, “ONCE enlightened.” Being enlightened never means you are saved. It just means you KNOW. You can be enlightened, and come into a certain amount of Truth – and yet if you refuse it – the Truth which God intended to draw you to Christ will condemn you. Once you are enlightened, you are accountable.

John affirms this fact:

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (John 3:19-21)

John is giving us the definition of condemnation. He says, “THIS IS condemnation….” John says that condemnation comes upon me if LIGHT comes into my world, but I love darkness rather than light. This means that I do have light – because I could not love darkness RATHER than light unless I had light, and was refusing it. And John says that people do make that terrible choice simply because they do not want to come out into the light and have what they have done, and who they are, exposed before God.

You cannot lose salvation, but you can refuse salvation - which is the unpardonable sin.

Peace

 

[Mickey]

EA_Man:

You cannot lose salvation, but you can refuse salvation - which is the unpardonable sin.

Losing salvation is a subject that has been debated endlessly here, so I will not participate again. I don’t fully agree with your interpretation EA. All I am saying is that since we have free will, (which you agree with), that it is possible to choose to do an about face and reject Christ after accepting Him. Notice that those quotes are not only addressing enlightenment:

Hebrews 6:4-6. For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

Hebrews 3:12-14. Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we share in Christ, if only we hold our first confidence firm to the end

This is addressed to those who were once “partakers of the Holy Spirit”. Also to “fall away from the living God” must mean that at one time they were standing with Him–don’t you think?

Blessings,
Mickey

 

[Matt16_18]

EA_Man:

Your salvation was never based on anything you did. So, you cannot lose it by anything you do. Salvation is life that, by definition, cannot be lost.

Please tell us how a non-Christian could ever commit the mortal sin of apostasy!

Christians can, of course, choose to commit mortal sins that cause them to lose eternal life. God’s grace doesn’t change us into holy meat robots incapable of choosing eternal death through disobedience to God.

Eternal life can be lost. John explicitly says that a Christian that hates his brother is a murderer, and that Christians know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.He who does not love abides in death. Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1John 3:14-15Becoming a Christian doesn’t make Christian charity optional, it makes Christian charity * possible*. Christians that hate other people have lost the eternal life they once had abiding within their souls because haters abide in death, not life.

 

[EA_Man]

Matt16_18:

Eternal life can be lost. John explicitly says that a Christian that hates his brother is a murderer, and that Christians know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.He who does not love abides in death. Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

1John 3:14-15
Becoming a Christian doesn’t make Christian charity optional, it makes Christian charity possible. Christians that hate other people have lost the eternal life they once had abiding within their souls because haters abide in death, not life.

John is NOT saying that a Christian that hates his brother is a murderer in this passage. John is saying that we are NOT LIKE THAT.

1 John 3:13-15
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

We have passed from death to life, those that hate their brother are dead (UNLIKE US). John is drawing a contrast and showing why the world hates us.

He is most assuredly NOT saying “don’t do this or you will lose your salvation”.

Peace

 

[EA_Man]

Mickey:

Losing salvation is a subject that has been debated endlessly here, so I will not participate again. I don’t fully agree with your interpretation EA. All I am saying is that since we have free will, (which you agree with), that it is possible to choose to do an about face and reject Christ after accepting Him. Notice that those quotes are not only addressing enlightenment:

Hebrews 6:4-6. For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

This passage refers to false believers. How do we know?
(1) They tasted but they did not drink and eat (contrast John 6:54).

(2) Those who fall away cannot be saved again. “It is impossible to restore again to repentence…” If you can lose your salvation, according to this verse, you can only lose it ONCE.

(3) The difference between the true believer and the false is the fruit and the evidence. Heb. 6:7-8
Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

(4) The writer of Hebrews plainly states that he is not referring to true believers. Heb. 6:9
Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation.

Again, this passage refers NOT to Believers but to Hearers who have chosen to NOT believe.

Christ’s Peace to you.

 

[Matt16_18]

EA_Man:

John is NOT saying that a Christian that hates his brother is a murderer in this passage.

He most certainly is, as can be seen by simply reading what John has written!

“He who does not love abides in death.” Where is John making an exception for Christians that hate their brother? Nowhere. John is NOT saying that only the pagans that hate their brother abide in death, and that Christians are free to hate their brother since they have “eternal security”. Not at all.

John explicitly says, “you know that NO murderer has eternal life abiding in him.”, and that “any one who hates his brother is a murderer”. John says ANY ONE who hates his brother is a murderer. John is not teaching that Christians are exceptions to this truth. Hatred is abiding in death, and loving is abiding in life. A Christian that hates his brother has lost the eternal life abiding within because he abides in death.

 

[EA_Man]

Steven Merten:

Hello Eaman,

Jesus tells us that Abraham is in heaven. You say that the saved have “given their life to Christ”? How did Abraham do this? Did Abraham make the OSAS profession, “I accept Jesus as my personal Saviour.”? How did Abraham become “born again”?

Romans 4:1-3
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Romans 4:13-14
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless,
Steven Merten:

I see God many times commanding us to obeying Him in the Old Testament. What I cannot find in OT is the OSAS philosophy that you are assuring me Old Testament teaches. Can you please show us the OT teachings of “faith alone”, “born again” and that obedience is not needed to recieve life?

Where did I say that the Old Testament taught OSAS?

I see God commanding us to keep His Law as well.
How many people were able to do it?
The “lesson of the OT” is that man is completely incapable of “keeping the law”.

Furthermore, obedience is the outworking of faith. Conviction of the fact that we are lost sinners in need of salvation and repentence is what is “needed to receive life.”

What your questions seem to indicate is that we need to “clean up our act” before we come to the foot of the Cross.

Peace

 

[Michael_Francis]

E A Man Check your PMs

 

[Mickey]

EA_Man:

Again, this passage refers NOT to Believers but to Hearers who have chosen to NOT believe.

So then you are saying that “partakers of the Holy Spirit” and those who “fall away from the living God” were NOT believers? This is a perplexing interpretation.

Peace,
Mickey

 

[Mickey]

2 Peter 2:20-21. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. **For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. **

Matthew 7:21. “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”