OSAS does grace place us above Gods commandments

[sandusky]

Matt 1618:

There is NOTHING in scriptures that allows one to draw such a conclusion. Jesus taught that many would fall away, and only those that endure to the end will be saved.

In addition to being called and justified, the true believer is also glorified, and he will persevere to end, not on his own strength, but God’s. He is a new creature (2 Cor 5:17), made alive in Christ (1 Cor 15:22); he no longer lives, but Christ lives in Him (Gal 2:20), and that is his hope of glory (Col 1:27). For that reason he will bear much fruit (Jn 15:5). His body is dead, and his spirit is alive because of righteousness [Christ’s] (Rom 8:10), and he abides in Christ, and Christ in him (Jn 5:56). The proper name of Christ is Jesus, because He will save His people from their sin (Mt 1:21), by laying down His life for them (Jn 10:11); he is created in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:10), and he is thus created by God’s own doing (1 Cor 1:30); It is not by the believer’s will that he is reborn, but by the mercy of God (Rom 9:16; 1 Pet 1:3). The true believer has heard the word and believed, and he has passed from death to life, and he has passed out of judgment (Jn 5:24). That statement was made by Jesus, the author and finisher of the believer’s salvation, who is able to save him forever (Heb 12:2; 7:23). God will also confirm him to the end, blameless in the day of Christ (1:8-9), because the good work that He has begun, He will perfect (Phil 1:6). God will also rescue him from every evil deed, and bring him safely to His heavenly kingdom (2 Tim 4:18), to that inheritance which is undefiled, and will not fade away, and is reserved in heaven for him (1 Pet 1:3).

Christ does talk of those who will fall away. But they are not true believers; they are not God’s elect, for He Himself says: Many are called, but few are chosen (Mt 22:14).

The true believer will endure to the end. In fact, in God’s mind, he already has endured to the end, because it is God who gives him the endurance.

 

[sandusky]

Verismo:

Are we keeping in mind the difference between Justification, and (final) Salvation? Is part of your argument that even though he has free will still, it is impossible to conceive that he would renounce Christ once baptized/redeemed/justified etc.?

The one who is justified is also glorified (Rom 8:30). In God’s mind, it is already done. You say it well: it is impossible to conceive that he would renounce Christ. Amen.

 

[sandusky]

Sara888:

Eternal Security is dangerous because it causes people to take the attitude I don’t have to be careful, I don’t have to discipline myself, I can’t be lost any way, therefore many are cold and indifferent about God and his work, and the kind of daily lives they live

Sara that is your conception of eternal security. The Biblical teaching says no such thing.

Sara888:

This is a dangerous doctrine because it causes backsliders to be eternally lost.

A doctrine does not cause anything; a doctrine is an explanation of a thing.

Sara888:

Many have gone back in sin, and yet they are taught and believe they will be saved anyway.Either by God forcing them back of destroying their works at judgement. Therefore people will go to judgment deceived, believing they are saved when they are not.

None of the elect will be lost.

 

[Matt16_18]

sandusky:

The true believer will endure to the end.

Some Christians will endure to the end, but there is nothing in scriptures that says ALL Christians will endure to the end.

You are preaching a false doctrine that is completely unsupported by scriptures - a doctrine that contradicts Christ’s own teachings."I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15:1-6

Jesus teaches he is the vine and that we (the Christians) are the branches. Some branches attached to the vine bear fruit and some do not. God the Father cuts off from Jesus the Christians that do not bear fruit, and these fruitless Christians are gathered up and burned.

If the Calvanist OSAS that you are preaching was true, Jesus would have to say, "I am the true vine, and you are the branches. Every branch of mine is guaranteed to bear fruit because of irresistible grace, and you can have absolute assurance that no branch of mine will ever be so completely cut off from the vine that it will whither and die. What I am teaching is that no branch of mine will ever be burned.”

Christ does talk of those who will fall away. But they are not true believers

That false interpretation of scriptures is contradicted by Jesus. As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
Matt. 13:20-21The seed sown on rocky ground are the Christians that received the word with joy, but do not endure to the end. They are the Christians that give up when persecution and trials afflict them.

If Calvinist OSAS were true, Jesus would never have given the parable about the seeds sown on different soils. There would only be two kinds of seeds. The seeds that are sown on the path that never germinate, and the seeds that are sown in the good soil that bear much fruit.

In addition to being called and justified, the true believer is also glorified, and he will persevere to end, not on his own strength, but God’s.

It is certainly true that those who persevere to the end did so because of the grace of final perseverance. But that is not the issue. The issue is this: can a Christian, by his own free will, commit sin that would cause him to suffer eternal damnation? You are saying that it is impossible for a Christian to be damned by committing the sin of unrepentant apostasy, and that contradicts scriptures.For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.
Heb 6:4-6

You first have to be a Christian before you can commit the sin of apostasy. Only Christians have tasted the heavenly gift. Only Christians have become partakers of the Holy Spirit. And only Christians have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come.

How could a non-Christian ever be a partatker of the Holy Spirit?

 

[sara888]

**I concur Matt,

well said,

Sara**

 

[sara888]

**Sandusky saidSara that is your conception of eternal security. The Biblical teaching says no such thing.

Sara says Bull.!

No Christian bible teaches such distortions as the OSAS doctrine professes.

Anyone can lose their Salvation, if they dont abide in Christ. Matthew, Mark, Luke ,John, Rev. the whole New Testament has requirements for those who REMAIN steadfast in Faith. These requirements and consequences are for believers.

If our Salvation has been guranteed and we have been judged, then they would be no reason for Jesus to come back and judge BELIEVERS, The Bible is for followers of Christ. The one who hears and followers his word.

Sara**

 

[Michael_Francis]

Due to the falling level of charity in this discussion, this thread is now closed.