Our Father (and stange habits)

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netmil(name removed by moderator):
If I didn’t put the “Only kidding” on this, I could see you getting upset. However, I live in a part of the US that is overrun with Moderism. I have been very blessed to find a parish that is Deep Catholic and does not go along with these innovations.
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2 wrongs never make a right, and there is NO excuse for rude, or infantile behavior.

If you do not agree with someone’s prayer posture, that is fine, but since there is no posture prescribed, you have no right to criticize anyone for their spirituality.

And it is certainly wrong to ridicule someone, and then say, “Only kidding” This is the tactic of the agressive and obnoxious, not a good method of communication for a loving Christian.
I apologize if you are offended by my remark
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If someone was offended? This is an offensive remark, and you should be sorry for saying it, even if no one took offence.
 
In earlier days the Church rejected surgery and anatomical study of corpses. After reading Paul’s epistle’s one must conclude that women were not to speak or teach. Women used to wear head-coverings at Mass — and I do not recall if that still is or ever was ‘required’. Penances in the early Church were, I am told, commonly multi-year and very public. Oh, and the ‘Orans’ was one of the positions used when praying. And you kissed your neighbor at the sign of peace, right?
The ‘Orans’ position is not familiar and natural to most of us today. Most of us prefer our penance less public. We like the idea that some disorders can be “cut out”, and that unbirthable babies can be delivered so they and their Mother both live. Women talk in Church, and (thank you, God) they do most of the outside-of-Mass teaching that I have encountered. I shake hands with my neighbor, kiss my wife and family, and hug nearby friends at the sign of peace – some folks just flash a V-sign. And the ‘Orans’ position feels more like the posture appropriate when being mugged in a dark alley than when communicating with God: In my culture kneeling, or standing erectly, maybe with hands clasped together, often with hands spread and palm upward, and maybe even with my hand in the clasp of someone else’s hand, feels more right. At least, that’s the answer I get when I ask myself, “What does my posture speak in this relationship?” I suppose around 2600AD there will be folks selling the idea of we must hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer because, see in these old photographs they were doing it.
 
The ‘Orans’ position is not familiar and natural to most of us today
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I’m not sure that is true, but I am willing to say let each community follow the practice that is familiar and natural to them.
 
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katherine2:
I’m not sure that is true, but I am willing to say let each community follow the practice that is familiar and natural to them.
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with what restraints or guidlines???

bishops are already “allowing” this to happen. Thus, abuses eventually become the norms.
 
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MrS:
with what restraints or guidlines???
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what restraints? Oh, we could have the ushers put straightjakcets on people who raise their arms…😃
bishops are already “allowing” this to happen. Thus, abuses eventually become the norms.
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Yeah. So what. many of the liturgical norms most treasured today by traditionalists were at one time “abuses”.
 
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katherine2:
Yeah. So what. many of the liturgical norms most treasured today by traditionalists were at one time “abuses”.
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Can you please clairfy this?
 
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katherine2:
what restraints? Oh, we could have the ushers put straightjakcets on people who raise their arms…😃
Code: 
     * how about the GIRM, if not common sense*
Yeah. So what. many of the liturgical norms most treasured today by traditionalists were at one time “abuses”.
Code: 
      *so, if there is a history of abuse=norm, then we should continue the history, not try to correct it?   Your comments make me smile,  (and roll my eyes).*
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shall we start with the laity signing themselves as the proclamation of the Gospel is announced?
 
1yellow rose said:
2 wrongs never make a right, and there is NO excuse for rude, or infantile behavior.
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Right, which is why when one is ridiculed for a traditional attitude, one is laughed at and called old fashioned or actually shunned because of it, one can either laugh or cry at the situation. I choose to laugh. Two wrongs don’t make a right, but we all have to deal with our situations as we can. If you’re not in that picture, best not to personalize my posts.
If you do not agree with someone’s prayer posture, that is fine, but since there is no posture prescribed, you have no right to criticize anyone for their spirituality.
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I am not criticizing people for their spirituality, I am stating that this is a posture that is not traditional in the Catholic Church. While many other religions may use it, it is an innovation in our Holy Masses that people are putting in. If you have a clown mass or a Polka Mass, people may be spiritual, but it still looks strange .
And it is certainly wrong to ridicule someone, and then say, “Only kidding” This is the tactic of the agressive and obnoxious, not a good method of communication for a loving Christian.
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I’ll take this under consideration.
If someone was offended? This is an offensive remark, and you should be sorry for saying it, even if no one took offence.
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It was an offensive remark to you, but not to the many of people on this board who are sick of innovations put into their Holy Masses. It gets to a point where the Silent Majority begins to speak out, the other side that has been in control doesn’t like it and begins calling names, like… rude, infantile, agressive, obnoxious and that a person is not a good Christian.

We get it all the time, we’re used to it.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I am not criticizing people for their spirituality, I am stating that this is a posture that is not traditional in the Catholic Church.
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Its very traditional. Its just not something you seem to care for.
While many other religions may use it, it is an innovation …
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Any other religion that uses it has adopted it from the religion of Jesus Christ.
It was an offensive remark to you, but not to the many of people on this board who are sick of innovations put into their Holy Masses. It gets to a point where the Silent Majority begins to speak out, the other side that has been in control doesn’t like it and begins calling names, like… rude, infantile, agressive, obnoxious and that a person is not a good Christian.
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I think most decent people would acknowledge that those who wish not to hold hands should have their desires respected and those who wish to should have the same respect.
 
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katherine2:
shall we start with the laity signing themselves as the proclamation of the Gospel is announced?
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Do you know when and how this practice began?
 
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katherine2:
Its very traditional. Its just not something you seem to care for.
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It is not traditional in the Catholic Church. It is based on Catacomb paintings which the experts have a hard time catagorizing the pagan, from any other. PBS had a Frontline about the catacombs where this was made clear. And that is just the orans. The hand holding is not even found there.
It is an innovation over the last 40 years for Catholics to do this at all and rarely within the last 10 for most parishes.
Any other religion that uses it has adopted it from the religion of Jesus Christ.
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And your point in stating this?
Catholics traditionally for 1000 years folding their hands. Why did we need to improve on it?
I think most decent people would acknowledge that those who wish not to hold hands should have their desires respected and those who wish to should have the same respect.
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I really don’t care how you want to worship. You can hold hands, have a clown mass, a polka mass, or juggle. I do live in America and I also have a right to tell you it looks strange.
 
Originally Posted by MrS
I think you are asking the wrong poster for clarity
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netmil(name removed by moderator):
Oh I missed this!😃
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And what do either of these posts contribute to the discussion?

Nothing but sarcastic rudeness, but you expect reasonable Christians to respect you?
 
1yellow rose:
And what do either of these posts contribute to the discussion?

Nothing but sarcastic rudeness, but you expect reasonable Christians to respect you?
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Let me help you.
You have at this point, 11 posts. You are a newbie.
MrsS has over 1600 posts.
I have over 730.

The first time I heard from you, you called me “rude, infantile, agressive, obnoxious and a person who is not a good Christian”
And you expect me to put any credence in what you think?

Here is my Christianity coming out.
Sit tight and read for a while. Learn how to behave here, it will do you a world of good. Learn the other side, learn that you are not always right. Learn that there are shades of right. Both of us could be right. You will learn that when you are no longer a Junior Member.
It is very easy to put you on an ignore list and then you can rant and rave to your hearts content,

but I won’t read a thing.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Let me help you.
You have at this point, 11 posts. You are a newbie.
MrsS has over 1600 posts.
I have over 730.

The first time I heard from you, you called me “rude, infantile, agressive, obnoxious and that a person is not a good Christian”
And you expect me to put any credence in what you think?

Here is my Christianity coming out.
Sit tight and read for a while. Learn how to behave here, it will do you a world of good. Learn the other side, learn that you are not always right. Learn that there are shades of right. Both of us could be right. You will learn that when you are no longer a Junior Member.
It is very easy to put you on an ignore list and then you can rant and rave to your hearts content,

but I won’t read a thing.
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Thanks for the support…but it really is Mr S … what the teens call me because my name is long, and I like Mr S. Anyway, I had just ignored the poster’s inquiry. My habit has been to look over someones background and previous posts. Gives me an idea if future posts might appeal to me. So my comment was not anything more than an observation and opinion of the poster’s history.

I can only hope that some of my posts have had a positive impact, while some simply gave me the opportunity to “let off steam”. And I have seen some quality posts from members who don’t have quantity … and some members with quantity and virtually no substance.

Again thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut… keep up the Good posts.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Here is my Christianity coming out.
Sit tight and read for a while. Learn how to behave here, it will do you a world of good. Learn the other side, learn that you are not always right. Learn that there are shades of right. Both of us could be right. You will learn that when you are no longer a Junior Member…
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Good advice—I have read many posts.
It is very easy to put you on an ignore list and then you can rant and rave to your hearts content,
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but I won’t read a thing
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Also very good advice which I sincerely hope you follow
 
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