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AllSeasons
Guest
To that, I say kudos to the school! Which school is that by the way? I would love to consider sending my future kids there.
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Jakebuf
Guest
Some of the words may be scriptural but the form or model of prayer is not. Look thru the epistles at the many prayers of Paul and you will not see a repetive model but a purpose driven model .
- examples: Ephsians 1:16-21, Col 1: 9-12, and there are others
My basic question was:
How did the early church pray before St Dominic and were their prayers answered-?
I’ll bet they prayed as led by the Holy Spirit .
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
The Rosary is totally Scriptural. Every one of the Mysteries and prayers are eith found directly or indirectly in scripture.
That is sad that you failed to see and receive the grace that God was willing to give in this.
The Religious communities did then much as they do now the Pray the Divine Office and the Psalms, Ever notice how if you pray the Rosary and say the three sets of mysteries you will be saying 150 hail Mary’s. Many for the Monasteries say pray all 150 psalms each day. since most of the laity could not read and did not know the psalm by heart they did know prays such as the Hail Mary that they would pray when the Bells sounded calling the monks to prayer. In doing so they joined themselves in prayer with the monks.
I think it would better if the children were just taught a biblical approach to prayer as instructed by Jesus through his words and his miracles with inclusion from the use of prayer by the apostles throughout the book of Acts. That is exactly what the Rosary teaches.
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kipperjl
Guest
Besides what I posted above please click on this url address for EWTN and read the rest of the article.
ewtn.com/Devotionals/pray…#ixzz3GKZwjx88
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Another thing Mother Teresa of Calcutta carried her rosary in her hand at all times and when she wasn’t active she would begin to pray the rosary saying several rosaries in a day. If you say the word slowly and with your heart you will have peace and many things that are going wrong will get better. If you just say it fast with no feeling it is is repetition. Someone told me once that if you talk really fast to a friend or to God do you think they understand what you are saying.
ewtn.com/Devotionals/pray…#ixzz3GKZwjx88
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Another thing Mother Teresa of Calcutta carried her rosary in her hand at all times and when she wasn’t active she would begin to pray the rosary saying several rosaries in a day. If you say the word slowly and with your heart you will have peace and many things that are going wrong will get better. If you just say it fast with no feeling it is is repetition. Someone told me once that if you talk really fast to a friend or to God do you think they understand what you are saying.
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tafan
Guest
You would be wrong (at least by your definition of prayers led by the Holy Spirit).
Counting repetitive prayers goes back to the very early days of the Church. We have the following examples (likely there are many more, but I don’t have time for the research):
Palladius documents a cribbage like board that was used to count prayers ( 5th century)
St Paul the Hermit used 300 stones to count his daily repetition of prayers ( 4th century)
the monks of St Apollinaris in the 8th century were required to say 300 Kyrie Eleison twice a day by the pope in the 8th century.
Again, its easy for protestants to be critical of Catholic prayer practices, until they serious consider how many Catholics devote most of their lives to prayer, something quite rare among Protestants.
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godisgood77
Guest
I think there is an easy and obvious solution here…
If you are uncomfortable with it, you should simply go to the authorities at the school and ask that you child be exempted. Ask that he/she is exempted in a quiet and indiscreet manner as to not draw the attention of others. If that does not resolve the issue, you may consider another school.
My wife and I had a similar challenge and we ended up moving schools. You are your child’s primary teacher and you should not feel like you have to ‘un-teach’ things that your child is taught at school. There is much diversity in the Catholic religion and it is important that you find the right place for your family.
If you are uncomfortable with it, you should simply go to the authorities at the school and ask that you child be exempted. Ask that he/she is exempted in a quiet and indiscreet manner as to not draw the attention of others. If that does not resolve the issue, you may consider another school.
My wife and I had a similar challenge and we ended up moving schools. You are your child’s primary teacher and you should not feel like you have to ‘un-teach’ things that your child is taught at school. There is much diversity in the Catholic religion and it is important that you find the right place for your family.
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Jakebuf
Guest
Matthew 6:6 But you, when you pray, enter into your room, and having shut the door, pray to your Father in secret, and your Father, who sees in secret, will repay you.( The Catholic Bible)
How do we know who prays more ,unless, we are violating this prayer principle from Jesus to judge by.
How do we know who prays more ,unless, we are violating this prayer principle from Jesus to judge by.
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Juliet512
Guest
I have not read through this entire thread yet; however, I intend to after making this post.
I just wanted to share that while I do not believe in forcing children to pray… I think it would be fine if the teacher or religious instructor lead the class in a rosary, allowing those who wanted to participate do so.
But, I also wanted to say that one of our priests at my church gave a really wonderful homily just last week on the Feast of Saint John Paul II about our “Catholic Identity” and what makes the Catholic Church different from other Christian churches. He said it could be summarized into what is sometimes affectionately called “The Three White Things” or “Tres Blancares”: The white of the Eucharist, the white of the Pope’s Mitre (hat) and the white of Our Lady’s robes.
He recommended we read some of Saint John Paul II’s “encyclicals”, specifically Redemptoris Mater and Ecclesia de Eucharistia, which are about the role of Mary and the Eucharist in the Catholic Church, respectively.
I am about halfway through Redemptoris Mater and it’s AMAZING! Saint John Paul II clearly demonstrates how very important Mary is to our Church and how important she is in helping us to achieve Christ’s blessings.
And, if his encyclical isn’t convincing, then the Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima should be convincing for anyone! Mary has practically commanded us that we pray the rosary! And the miracle at Fatima has been recognized by the Church and by other non-Catholics alike.
Anyway, I would argue strongly that a devotion to Mary is essential to our salvation as Catholics. Anyone who has turned to her, would never turn away from her.
Pax Christi,
Juliet
I just wanted to share that while I do not believe in forcing children to pray… I think it would be fine if the teacher or religious instructor lead the class in a rosary, allowing those who wanted to participate do so.
But, I also wanted to say that one of our priests at my church gave a really wonderful homily just last week on the Feast of Saint John Paul II about our “Catholic Identity” and what makes the Catholic Church different from other Christian churches. He said it could be summarized into what is sometimes affectionately called “The Three White Things” or “Tres Blancares”: The white of the Eucharist, the white of the Pope’s Mitre (hat) and the white of Our Lady’s robes.
He recommended we read some of Saint John Paul II’s “encyclicals”, specifically Redemptoris Mater and Ecclesia de Eucharistia, which are about the role of Mary and the Eucharist in the Catholic Church, respectively.
I am about halfway through Redemptoris Mater and it’s AMAZING! Saint John Paul II clearly demonstrates how very important Mary is to our Church and how important she is in helping us to achieve Christ’s blessings.
And, if his encyclical isn’t convincing, then the Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima should be convincing for anyone! Mary has practically commanded us that we pray the rosary! And the miracle at Fatima has been recognized by the Church and by other non-Catholics alike.
Anyway, I would argue strongly that a devotion to Mary is essential to our salvation as Catholics. Anyone who has turned to her, would never turn away from her.
Pax Christi,
Juliet
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northsprings
Guest
im not altogether sure that she DID
i m simply not convinced of those apparitions either…and the rosary ideology and practice definitely constitute a stumbling block to unity with our xtian brethren…
ive always understood marian veneration to be optional, and not a centric point of catholic xtian identity. if ever an issue was contentious and divisive amongst the body of christ, it is certainly this one…
add to that the undisputed fact that marian apparitions ( without exception ) took place only in cathlc territory, and to cthlc believers, makes the whole thing suspect ( compared to the visions experienced by st paul and the emperor constantine)
the latter of course, was the catalyst that caused xtianity to morph from an unlawful cult to the official religion of the rom empire ( and thus the western world)
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O_Sapientia
Guest
I like this school. They’re doing a beautiful work.
Do you not know that Our Lady is the only hope of Christian unity? That, since ancient times, the Church has rallied to her as a living icon of orthodox Christian faith? Do you never wonder why Christ’s divinity was proclaimed by announcing the glory of His Mother?
In Jesus and Mary,
OS.
You must be very careful in your criticisms of apparitions approved as being worthy of belief by the Church. You are not bound by then, but there is still a line. Private apparitions aside, the rosary does not constitute a stumbling block to unity. Or would you like to accuse Pope Saint John XXIII, who wrote some beautiful words on the rosary and widely encouraged it, Pope Paul VI, who loved the rosary, Pope Saint John Paul II, who was absolutely crazy for those beads, Pope Emeritus Benedict, who prays it every day, and our current Holy Father, Pope Francis, of promoting a stumbling block to Christian unity?
Do you not know that Our Lady is the only hope of Christian unity? That, since ancient times, the Church has rallied to her as a living icon of orthodox Christian faith? Do you never wonder why Christ’s divinity was proclaimed by announcing the glory of His Mother?
See my signature. Saint Anselm expresses a common sentiment amongst every saint and Doctor of the Church. Mary is not optional. She is entirely necessary and central to our faith, and our faith is the true faith.
The Miracle of the Sun that occurred at Fatima converted countless atheists, masons and communists, men that had sweated blood in their desire to overthrow the Church.
In Jesus and Mary,
OS.
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northsprings
Guest
than you for your (name removed by moderator)ut
im going to tell you the same thing i tell the protestant jesus freaks , which is : everyone must work out their salvation with FEAR and trembling…
these pearls of wisdom can be found in the epistles to the phillipians…
and dont quote pope jpII to me.
the selfsame man who went to great lengths to cover up the reality of child-raping priests is not a man in whose words i would place my wager…saint though he may be !
believe you me -----if i can ward off the holy rollers who claim i have to be dunked under water/ recite the “sinners prayer” / speak in tongues & all the other off-the-wall lunacies some protestants feels is ~ a necessity unto salvation~ , then rest assured i can shake off the rants of a misguided catholic just as easily !
for no reason will you tell me what to believe or disbelieve
LORD HELP ME ****** im too catholic 4 the protestants and too protestant 4 tthe catholics
im going to tell you the same thing i tell the protestant jesus freaks , which is : everyone must work out their salvation with FEAR and trembling…
these pearls of wisdom can be found in the epistles to the phillipians…
and dont quote pope jpII to me.
the selfsame man who went to great lengths to cover up the reality of child-raping priests is not a man in whose words i would place my wager…saint though he may be !
believe you me -----if i can ward off the holy rollers who claim i have to be dunked under water/ recite the “sinners prayer” / speak in tongues & all the other off-the-wall lunacies some protestants feels is ~ a necessity unto salvation~ , then rest assured i can shake off the rants of a misguided catholic just as easily !
for no reason will you tell me what to believe or disbelieve
LORD HELP ME ****** im too catholic 4 the protestants and too protestant 4 tthe catholics
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I don’t know much about Muslim prayer beads, but my understanding of Buddhist repetition is that it puts the mind in a particular state of receptiveness to enlightenment.
If I had to make my guess, I would guess that the rosary does that, even if we are not concentrating on the mysteries strongly. There is something about it. I remember, as a child, being “forced” to say the rosary with classmates, that I would sometimes just move my lips in order to listen to the cadence of the prayers being recited aloud by the others. It was a fascinating and wonderful thing to do, and if it didn’t alter my brain waves, I would be greatly surprised, as it used to bring a very strong peacefulness to me, notwithstanding that the whole thing (like so many childhood experience of value) was “forced” upon me.
And now, when my wife and I say it together, it’s still the same. Sometimes I have little trouble concentrating on the mysteries, delving into them, and sometimes it’s more difficult. But always, that alteration of the state of mind is there.
And too, maybe I’m too limited a guy, but I certainly couldn’t focus on the mysteries or anything else if I was making up a prayer of my own at the same time. In composing a prayer, no matter how heartfelt, I would be concentrating on that, and my mental state would be different; more “left brain hemisphere”, if you will, rather than “right brain hemisphere”. (I’m right handed)
Not saying purposive “left hemisphere” prayer isn’t good, because I think it is good. But I think the rosary is a more “right hemisphere” thing to do, and I think it’s a good thing that has its own purpose and place.
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CyrilSebastian
Guest
When teaching young children how to say the rosary, would it not be better to have the children learn about a particular decade and recite that decade?
If the children have any inquiries about that particular decade, the instructor can respond to those inquiries.
If the children have any inquiries about that particular decade, the instructor can respond to those inquiries.
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mlz
Guest
It is a Catholic school so they are free to have children learn and pray according to Catholic faith and devotions of course, I don’t see any problem. If they were asking the children to recite prayers contrary to the Catholic faith then…a problem. Children learn by example and guiding children to learn prayers of the Catholic faith is comendable. It is good for Catholic children to learn some of the prayers of the Church. The Rosary is an EXCELLENT prayer one supported by many of our popes! I applaud this school. In the world we live these days our children need to know all the prayers and strength afforded by the Church. It is our responsiblity to do so!
My love in Him,
mlz
My love in Him,
mlz
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casslean
Guest
I think there is a difference between “imposing” the rosary on children and “exposing” the children to the rosary. I think the latter is a great idea. Even if they do not entirely understand the meaning now, you cannot predict what impact that exposure will have on those children as they grow.
I was raised in a home without any religious upbringing. The only prayer I ever learned was the Our Father - from a first grade teacher who taught it to all his classes until someone complained and he was made to stop. It was the first time I ever knew of prayer or of my ability to talk to God. When I found the Catholic Church, more than 15 years later, I still knew the Our Father by heart; those words were like the well-worn security blanket I had toted around in times of trial and troubles since I had learned it all those years earlier. Even today, before I speak to God on my own, I start with the Our Father.
You don’t know where these children’s lives will take them. You don’t know that the prayer they are learning today won’t connect with one of them, and be the prayer that they carry with them for years to come.
I don’t think there is ever a type of prayer we shouldn’t expose our children to. If it doesn’t have meaning for them, and it becomes merely rote, then so be it. Sometimes God doesn’t
speak to us through our prayers. But sometimes he does, and we don’t know how that will happen.
I was raised in a home without any religious upbringing. The only prayer I ever learned was the Our Father - from a first grade teacher who taught it to all his classes until someone complained and he was made to stop. It was the first time I ever knew of prayer or of my ability to talk to God. When I found the Catholic Church, more than 15 years later, I still knew the Our Father by heart; those words were like the well-worn security blanket I had toted around in times of trial and troubles since I had learned it all those years earlier. Even today, before I speak to God on my own, I start with the Our Father.
You don’t know where these children’s lives will take them. You don’t know that the prayer they are learning today won’t connect with one of them, and be the prayer that they carry with them for years to come.
I don’t think there is ever a type of prayer we shouldn’t expose our children to. If it doesn’t have meaning for them, and it becomes merely rote, then so be it. Sometimes God doesn’t
speak to us through our prayers. But sometimes he does, and we don’t know how that will happen.
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mlz
Guest
Agree - our children need exposed to as much good and holy influences in such a day as we Luce therefore never complain when it is good and holy and save your energy toward the ev and provide protection!!!
mlz
mlz
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JimG
Guest
I was just skimming through this thread again. There are many beautiful comments about the rosary. But what struck me is that the OP is apparently a teacher at the Catholic school he is complaining about! (See post #24 and #90). It seems he is expected to lead the class in a rosary. But he refuses to do so. It sounds as though he will allow them to say the rosary, but only silently, not out loud, and if a student wishes to do something different, that’s okay too. Why is he a teacher at a Catholic school if he rejects Catholic devotions?
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otjm
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I think that saying that he rejects Catholic devotions is going a bit too far. I can’t speak to his motives unless and until he explains them,which, for all I have been able to see, he has not done.
There can be any number of reasons he may feel that requiring children to say the rosary is imposing it on them. That is not to say that I might agree with his methodology, but only to say that there may be reasons.
I don’t “reject” Catholic devotions, but I do have some that I am less than fond of. They are devotions, not liturgy, and we sometimes seem to get that confused, as if one is not truly Catholic if one does not embrace strongly this devotion or that one. I have said the rosary numerous times, but if I am going to pray outside of the Mass, my first choice is going to be LOTH - which also happens to be a liturgy of the Church, but not why I choose it. I choose it because I love the recitation of the psalms, and I choose it over the rosary because, in part, it is far easier for me to stay focused reciting the LOTH than it is the rosary. By doing so, I am not rejecting Catholic devotions.
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JimG
Guest
I understand, but the school is not asking the teachers to lead the children in the LOTH; it’s asking them to lead a rosary. I don’t know how the school feels about teachers disregarding something that has been asked of them with respect to the religious education of children in a Catholic school. The OP describes himself as: “disengaged Catholic, nihilist, solipsist, and sceptic,” so perhaps there is a conflict of interest with his job.
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Deo_Gratias42
Guest
Devotion to Mary is for everyone. If I had children and you were teaching them, I would have my children removed from your class, as you would be spiritually damaging to my children. Jesus gave Mary to us as our Mother when he was dying on the cross. How can you reject such a heartfelt gift from the one who gave his all for you?
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