Our school is imposing the rosary

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hansard said:
I have no problem with Catholic schools doing Catholic things: school Masses, retreats, daily prayer, occasional confession opportunities, a general focus on good living, compassion and generosity. We are good at those things, even though few students or staff are actually “Catholic” in the way they practise their faith.

What I have a problem with is forcing children to say a repetitive prayer (counted off on the beads, of course - we wouldn’t want to count incorrectly) when they could be offered the opportunity to make a more personal, meaningful prayer.

For example, when I am required to say a prayer at a meeting, I always ask people to offer quiet prayers of a personal nature. This is in keeping with Matthew 6:6 (“go to your room” etc).

Another concern: if prayers are forced, they can’t be genuine. Therefore, they will not “get through” at all.

If Marian Devotion is not required of the faithful (beyond the main dogmatic statements which are more recognition than devotion), and if praying the Rosary is not required, I won’t be inclined to enforce this.

Surely a carefully considered prayer is of more personal and spiritual value than a dull, repetitive, forced prayer.

(NOTE: I have nothing against those with a devotion to Mary. I admire and respect that. It’s not for me, that’s all.)
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In our little mission church we use the Rosary to teach the younger children the story of Jesus. Each class begins with one of the children reading something about a particular Mystery (the children especially love “The Birth of Christ” then we recite 1 decade with each child leading as we go around the room.

Before and during Christmas we study the Joyful Mysteries.

For the Luminous Mystery “Jesus Proclaims the Kingdom” we tell stories about Jesus: His stories and the Events around his life.

During Lent we study the Sorrowful Mysteries. You would be surprised to learn how the elementary students come to understand the meaning of Christ’s suffering learning these mysteries.

During Easter we study the Glorious Mysteries. The children use pictures of the Resurrection, Ascension, Coming of the Holy Spirit, The Assumption, and the Crowning of Mary for craft work.

Instead of being a dreaded ritual, the children have learned to love these stories. We make Rosary Cards using various pictures depicting the stories.

It is true that some people do pray the Rosary by rote and do not give much thought to the rich and beautiful stories of Jesus’ life that is told to us.
 
hansard said:
I have no problem with Catholic schools doing Catholic things: school Masses, retreats, daily prayer, occasional confession opportunities, a general focus on good living, compassion and generosity. We are good at those things, even though few students or staff are actually “Catholic” in the way they practise their faith.

What I have a problem with is forcing children to say a repetitive prayer (counted off on the beads, of course - we wouldn’t want to count incorrectly) when they could be offered the opportunity to make a more personal, meaningful prayer.

For example, when I am required to say a prayer at a meeting, I always ask people to offer quiet prayers of a personal nature. This is in keeping with Matthew 6:6 (“go to your room” etc).

Another concern: if prayers are forced, they can’t be genuine. Therefore, they will not “get through” at all.

If Marian Devotion is not required of the faithful (beyond the main dogmatic statements which are more recognition than devotion), and if praying the Rosary is not required, I won’t be inclined to enforce this.

Surely a carefully considered prayer is of more personal and spiritual value than a dull, repetitive, forced prayer.

(NOTE: I have nothing against those with a devotion to Mary. I admire and respect that. It’s not for me, that’s all.)
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I believe it is only through understanding the rosary that one can truly appreciate it. The Catholic Church has accepted this devotion, which is a reflection on the life of Our Lord, Jesus Christ, as a powerful means of prayer for centuries. It would be wrong to give a negative impression to Catholic students about something that the Church has declared to be good. Even though the rosary may not be your favorite form of prayer, I would just encourage you to read a little more of what the Church has to say about the Rosary.
Popes and Saints have taught us much about the rosary. Here is an Apostolic Letter from Pope John Paul the Great vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_20021016_rosarium-virginis-mariae_en.html
 
When the Blessed Mother says to St. Anna that all generations will call her [the Blessed Virgin] blessed, I think that serves, at least, two functions. One, it is a prophesy. Two, it is a prophesy fulfilled by the fact that people show devotion to the Blessed Virgin, i.e. it if fulfilled by calling her blessed. I think this is the basis for some sort of expectation that Christians show devotion to the Blessed Mother.
 
hansard said:
I have no problem with Catholic schools doing Catholic things: school Masses, retreats, daily prayer, occasional confession opportunities, a general focus on good living, compassion and generosity. We are good at those things, even though few students or staff are actually “Catholic” in the way they practise their faith.

What I have a problem with is forcing children to say a repetitive prayer (counted off on the beads, of course - we wouldn’t want to count incorrectly) when they could be offered the opportunity to make a more personal, meaningful prayer.

For example, when I am required to say a prayer at a meeting, I always ask people to offer quiet prayers of a personal nature. This is in keeping with Matthew 6:6 (“go to your room” etc).

Another concern: if prayers are forced, they can’t be genuine. Therefore, they will not “get through” at all.

If Marian Devotion is not required of the faithful (beyond the main dogmatic statements which are more recognition than devotion), and if praying the Rosary is not required, I won’t be inclined to enforce this.

Surely a carefully considered prayer is of more personal and spiritual value than a dull, repetitive, forced prayer.

(NOTE: I have nothing against those with a devotion to Mary. I admire and respect that. It’s not for me, that’s all.)
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hello hansard,
The CCC#971 says "“All generations will call me blessed”: “The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.” The Church rightly honors “the Blessed Virgin with special devotion.”
The CCC#968 also says “Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. “In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace.” As Mary is our mother in the order of divine grace and the supernatural life of our souls, it appears to me that to say we don’t need devotion to Mary is the same thing to say we didn’t need our natural mothers in bringing us forth into this world which is absurd. We might also want to consider that the fourth commandment is 'honor thy father and mother.” Now if we are to keep God’s commandment, we should honor Mary as she is our spiritual mother. I think we can be quite certain that Jesus kept the fourth commandment of God perfectly by honoring and loving Mary his mother. Now if we have the spirit of Christ, we also will honor and love Mary as our mother for Jesus gave Mary to us to be our spiritual mother.
As far as the rosary is concerned, it is composed of the Our Father which is the most perfect prayer as it was taught us by Jesus and the angelic salutation which is also inspired of God and by which we honor our Blessed Mother with the same words that the angel used inspired of God.
 
hansard said:
No, there’s nothing wrong with the Rosary at all, if you pray it willingly.

Forcing children to pray in any form is immoral.

My style is to say something like, “Now, please offer a prayer for something or someone, or just to offer thanks to God. If you don’t want to pray, please think about how you might do something to help someone today.”

Now, I’m not presenting myself as a prayer guru, but how is the Rosary any better than this?

Here’s how it will play out, I think:

Scenario 1: Children pray the Rosary willingly and with good intentions. I have no problem with this.
**Scenario 2: **Children recite prayers, unwillingly and by rote, and forget the experience immediately. Point? None.
Scenario 3: Children willingly offer prayers for something personal and significant. If they choose not to pray, they might reflect on their lives and behaviour.
Scenario 4: Children don’t reflect on anything, and just sit there.

Under no scenario above is it my business to impose a form of spirituality on them; I can only encourage and provide the “space” for them to do it.

It’s a personal journey and I have no more insight than they do.
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Do you force your children to do anything? Eat certain foods? Brush their teeth? Take medicine when they are sick? Go to school? Are those immoral acts? Or are they something your children need to do to be healthy? Isn’t prayer something your children also need to do to be spiritually healthy? I think it would be wrong not to teach them to pray–how else will they learn? If they are not exposed to various forms of prayer–how will they find the type of combination of types that work for them?

Is the school teaching the rosary and excluding all other prayer? Or is it simply exposing the children to various forms of prayer of which the rosary is one. I am not convinced you understand the rosary–it is a meditative prayer where we can focus on the life of Christ not just repeating words by rote–without thought.

I’m curious where you stand on the mass–do you make your children go or leave it up to them?

If you force you kids to eat healthy food, brush their teeth, go to the doctor and go to school–and don’t see this as immoral then I am at a loss as to why you think their spiritual health should be left up to them to decide. I would think ultimately their spiritual health is more important than their physical health.

It becomes their personal journey when they are 18. At some point they will have to make the faith their own but as parents it is our duty to give them the skill and knowledge to be able to that effectively–just letting them do what they feel like doing as children is not doing that. There is a fine line to walk and balance to strike but the pray if you want to side of the line is just as damaging as those on the overly militant side.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
hansard said:
So, you all agree that insincere prayers are valid, that children should be educated in repetitive prayers, and that such prayers are as valid as any others.

I think I understand.

**Joannm: **You obviously missed the point. Being forced to pray is immoral.

“but Mary makes up for what is lacking in my prayer. I too prefer to pray in my own words, but when I can’t, or when I just need the comfort of repetitive prayer, the Rosary is there.”
This is a simplistic attitude. Do you mean that you can’t find the words to pray? Really?

savedbygrace71: thanks for the anecdotes about your children. Thanks.Very.Much.

All of you, please answer this: is Marian Devotion required of the faithful or not? Not just “highly recommended” or any other do-nothing expression. Is it required of the faithful?
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Our Blessed Mother asked us to say the Rosary every day. At Fatima, She told that to three little children, 6, 7, and 9 years of age. How are the children ever going to learn it unless they are taught. We had to repeat spelling words, Math etc. in school in order to learn! You implied in your first post that some were not living ‘Catholic’ lives. Maybe it has something to do with not being taught Catholic things.I get the impression you have a problem with the Blessed Mother in more ways than one. Our Lady herself said, "From henceforth all generations will call me Blessed. And we do! God Bless, Memaw
 
I taught in a regional Catholic school for 10 years. Many of the students were not Catholic.
The students always ASKED to pray the rosary. They saw it as relaxing, peaceful, soothing, and meaningful to their relationship with Our Lady and also instructive in the timeline of the life of Christ.
I taught them the rosary as anyone would teach a child to read by using the alphabet and phonics.
No everyone is gifted with the ability to form spontaneous prayer and feel good about it.
How many people have posted here “I don’t know how to pray?”
The rosary helps people to pray well.
Children are forced into recess too. Not everyone is an athlete, but we all need fresh air,
God bless.
 
HelenRose said:
In our little mission church we use the Rosary to teach the younger children the story of Jesus. Each class begins with one of the children reading something about a particular Mystery (the children especially love “The Birth of Christ” then we recite 1 decade with each child leading as we go around the room.

Before and during Christmas we study the Joyful Mysteries.

For the Luminous Mystery “Jesus Proclaims the Kingdom” we tell stories about Jesus: His stories and the Events around his life.

During Lent we study the Sorrowful Mysteries. You would be surprised to learn how the elementary students come to understand the meaning of Christ’s suffering learning these mysteries.

During Easter we study the Glorious Mysteries. The children use pictures of the Resurrection, Ascension, Coming of the Holy Spirit, The Assumption, and the Crowning of Mary for craft work.

Instead of being a dreaded ritual, the children have learned to love these stories. We make Rosary Cards using various pictures depicting the stories.

It is true that some people do pray the Rosary by rote and do not give much thought to the rich and beautiful stories of Jesus’ life that is told to us.
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How beautiful! What a wonderful teaching method this is!
 
pianistclare said:
Children are forced into recess too. Not everyone is an athlete, but we all need fresh air,
God bless.
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These things are clearly on the same level as prayer. Right.

Children are not forced to do any particular thing at recess: whom to sit with, what to say, what to eat. The analogy breaks down immediately.

Everyone needs air. That has nothing to do with being an athlete. What do you mean?
 
Anyway, I won’t mind if they get “into” the Rosary and prove me wrong. I just won’t be forcing them. If a kid interrupts the Rosary of another kid, I’ll kick the offender out. If a kid wants to offer a prayer of another kind, I’ll do anything to give them the space to do that.
Oh, and I won’t be praying the Rosary out loud. No way. Prayer should be internal; a thought process. (Matt 6:6)
 
There must be something deeper to this that bothers you. What is it? Mass has many prayers said out loud. Some are even sung. So, you need to ask your priest about what exactly those bible quotes were referring to. I think there is confusion there because even the early church fathers did prayers out loud. Not only that, but the Our Father was prescibed specifically. It is obviously an acceptable practice.

The repetitiveness of the prayers frees your mind. It keeps your body focused while you concentrate on your private intentions. The fact that it takes time, much more time than your average impromptu prayer, means you get more time “with God”. No, all kids won’t stay focused, but there is scientific evidence that repetitve, meditative prayers are actually good for us physically. Just like teaching various other habits, the rosary is comforting form of prayer for many. If a kid isn’t into it now, well, he or she at least understands it and if they need it later in their spiritual life, it’s there for them. Catholic schools build skills. If a kid hates math, they learn it anyway. If they roll their eyes when it comes to prayer time (seriously, kids do this sometimes regardless of the type of prayer) well, they stiil know it if they need it later.
 
hansard said:
Anyway, I won’t mind if they get “into” the Rosary and prove me wrong. I just won’t be forcing them. If a kid interrupts the Rosary of another kid, I’ll kick the offender out. If a kid wants to offer a prayer of another kind, I’ll do anything to give them the space to do that.
Oh, and I won’t be praying the Rosary out loud. No way. Prayer should be internal; a thought process. (Matt 6:6)
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In my day it wasn’t called “forcing” it was called TEACHING. What about the Mass. Should we not pray together then too. You do have a problem my dear. God Bless, Memaw
 
Mary is the mother of God, the queen of heaven and earth! She nursed and instructed the Word Incarnate, and now in heaven she has the ear of her Son. He listens to her and does everything she asks, because her will is completely obedient and conformed to the will of God. All of this was accomplished by God’s grace, of course, it is not something she earned or accomplished herself.

If a person has some sort of an understanding of how great, majestic and good our God is and how much lower than Him we are, and also a Catholic understanding of Mary, then to reject any and all devotion to her is not enough to warrant hell but does reflect a profound lack of humility.

If a person really understood who Mary is and what she does for us all day everyday, then that person would certainly want to sing her praises and share her glories with the children under his care.

As for imposing prayer. I don’t think prayer of any kind should ever be forced on another person if the person reeaaally doesn’t want to pray. I just don’t see how that would do any good. But children do need to learn and sometimes we have to force them to work so that they will give themselves the chance to grow. But there is a fine line between teaching children to pray and forcing religion down their throats.

As for the imposed prayer being repetitive, I don’t see anything wrong with repetitive prayer at all. I can say “Jesus I love you, help me to love you” a hundred times a day and mean it just as much the 100th time as I did the very first time. Because the truth is, I don’t know how to love God but I REALLY want to be able to, so I beg him to teach me his ways. Truly meaning our prayers has more to do with our heart than how many times we’ve already said whatever prayer it is. A person who understands Mary’s role will certainly be begging for her prayers from time to time.

One last point, you make the mistake in believing that the Rosary is not personal. Yes, the Rosary is not directly all about us. But we are Catholics, and so we don’t want our lives to revolve around ourselves. We want our lives to revolve around Love. Divine Love. Sure it’s important to pray for ourselves and our needs, but just because the Rosary is not all about me does not mean it is not personal. One of the goals of the Christian life is to give ourselves totally to God and be like Jesus Christ in everything we do. How can we become like Jesus if we never meditate on His life? How can we apply the truths we learn in our meditation to our own lives, transforming how we live and who we are, if we refuse to meditate on His Life? And how can we allow God to work on our hearts in the dark secret places of our souls if we don’t spend a lot of time with him in prayer? So while the Rosary is not something a person praying wrote himself, it is still deeply personal and has everything to do with making him a more godly person.
 
Memaw said:
In my day it wasn’t called “forcing” it was called TEACHING. What about the Mass. Should we not pray together then too. You do have a problem my dear. God Bless, Memaw
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👍 My goodness we “force” the kids to learn the ABC’s. The Rosary is the story of Jesus and His mother. How could any Catholic School be faulted for teaching the fundamental concepts and stories of Catholicism?
 
This is one of the most obtuse posts I’ve ever encountered on this forum.

The rosary should not be “imposed” upon students at a Catholic school?

We should only pray “silently”?

And you are a Catholic-How?
 
hansard said:
These things are clearly on the same level as prayer. Right.

Children are not forced to do any particular thing at recess: whom to sit with, what to say, what to eat. The analogy breaks down immediately.

Everyone needs air. That has nothing to do with being an athlete. What do you mean?
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What I “mean” is that you are making way too much out of this.
It’s a Catholic school, and we like to cultivate devotion to Mary.
Kids are indeed forced to say the pledge of allegiance. Nobody fusses about that.
There are things that are part and parcel with where you choose to place your child.
True, no one is compelled to have a Marian devotion, but it doesn’t hurt. Your attitude is that this is somehow a harmful practice. Which it certainly is not.
Children need prayer. They need to learn how to do it. If they end up loving the Our Father which is one of the rosary prayers, then that’s a good thing.
Prayer breaks up the tedium of our studies. Much like recess. It’s a time to calm your thoughts, rest in the love of the Lord, and offer prayers for their parents.
You might want to embrace it.
Peace.
 
Richca said:
hello hansard,
The CCC#971 says "“All generations will call me blessed”: “The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.” The Church rightly honors “the Blessed Virgin with special devotion.”
The CCC#968 also says “Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. “In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace.” As Mary is our mother in the order of divine grace and the supernatural life of our souls, it appears to me that to say we don’t need devotion to Mary is the same thing to say we didn’t need our natural mothers in bringing us forth into this world which is absurd. We might also want to consider that the fourth commandment is 'honor thy father and mother.” Now if we are to keep God’s commandment, we should honor Mary as she is our spiritual mother. I think we can be quite certain that Jesus kept the fourth commandment of God perfectly by honoring and loving Mary his mother. Now if we have the spirit of Christ, we also will honor and love Mary as our mother for Jesus gave Mary to us to be our spiritual mother.
As far as the rosary is concerned, it is composed of the Our Father which is the most perfect prayer as it was taught us by Jesus and the angelic salutation which is also inspired of God and by which we honor our Blessed Mother with the same words that the angel used inspired of God.
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My question is, out of all the different churches I’ve been to, why is the Catholic Church the ONLY one which honors the prophecy of calling Mary blessed/

I started a thread about this and cannot get a single answer.
 
Wow. Anyone going to a “Catholic” school should be forced to say the Rosary? Of course. That’s one of the reasons most “Catholic” schools are Catholic in name only. I applaud this school that we are speaking of for taking such a stance. I would hope that all schools would “force” the kids to say the Rosary. Perhaps our world wouldn’t be in the predicament it’s in right now if we had the help of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
 
babylonfalling said:
My question is, out of all the different churches I’ve been to, why is the Catholic Church the ONLY one which honors the prophecy of calling Mary blessed/

I started a thread about this and cannot get a single answer.
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Greetings!
I found this on an Antiochian Orthodox Website-it appears we share this usage with our Orthodox brothers and sisters:

MARY

MARY is called Theotokos, meaning “God-bearer” or “the Mother of God,” because she bore the Son of God in her womb and from her He took His humanity. Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, recognized this reality when she called Mary, “the mother of my Lord” (Luke 1:43). Mary said of herself, "All generations will call me blessed" (Luke 1:48). So we, in our generation, call her blessed. Mary lived a chaste and holy life, and we honor her highly as the model of holiness, the first of the redeemed, the Mother of the new humanity in her Son. It is bewildering to Orthodox Christians that many professing Christians who claim to believe the Bible never call Mary blessed nor honor her who bore and raised God the Son in His human flesh.

Of course there may be many non-Catholic or non-Orthodox Christians who refer to Mary as blessed, but whose churches you have not had cause to visit.

Now, back to our Rosary thread.
I pray that the gift of the Rosary may be shared everywhere and that it may bring more souls ever closer to Our Lord.
I love meditating on the rosary, contemplating Christ on the cross giving his mother to us all, the tremendous “yes” that she said to God which enabled her to suffer through the passion of Our Lord, knowing that this was necessary to fulfill His will.
May she pray for me as she prayed for Him, now, and at the hour of my death.
Amen.
 
babylonfalling said:
My question is, out of all the different churches I’ve been to, why is the Catholic Church the ONLY one which honors the prophecy of calling Mary blessed/

I started a thread about this and cannot get a single answer.
Click to expand...
Simple answer. We are the one true church. How can you expect the Truth anywhere else?
 
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