Our Son refused by the priest.

[CleverUserName]

This thread had spun out of control, and we have long ago lost the original poster (I have spoken to her privately).

I wonder if a new thread on the topic of deacon baptism or WWJD would be a good idea at this point.

I also think we should ask ourselves if we, in our responses here, behaved in a manner that would inspire StressedMummy to want to become Catholic. Did we even tell her what she’s missing? How TRUE, wonderful, complete, enriching and fulfilling it is? Did we say anything at all that would make her want to rush right over to the church and sign up for RCIA so that she could become fully Catholic and have her children baptized?

I feel sorry for her.

All she was met with here is snide remarks about her boyfriend (most of these were early on), inter-forum arguing, and yes a little bit of good advice that I fear is lost in the sea of bickering. But she’d long since stopped reading.

I know we can do better.

Pray for her!

 

[aschaefer]

Read the following article. We can debate this decision, but priest are supposed to follow Canon Law.

The Celebration of Infant Baptism
Introduction

1. The Sacrament of Baptism is the first stage in an extended process of growth
   towards Christian maturity. In choosing Baptism for an infant, parents and the community accept the responsibility to continue the initiation of the baptized through the Eucharist and Confirmation.
2. To emphasize the communal aspect and paschal character of Baptism, it
   should be celebrated on Sunday.
   **3. As the primary educators of their child, parent/guardian has the first and most important influence on the faith development of their children. Parishes must provide catechesis for parent/guardian regarding Baptism before their child is baptized. This catechesis must include the Church’s rich teachings of the sacrament and the obligations attached to it. It should be designed to deepen the parent/guardian personal faith so that they can accept the responsibility to see that the fruits of the sacrament come to realization as their child matures.
   Canon #849
   Policies
   Prerequisites for Candidacy
   A child who has not completed their sixth year (have not
   celebrated their seventh birthday) are candidates for infant baptism.2
   Parent/guardian are obliged to seek Baptism for their child within
   the first few weeks after birth.
   At least one parent should be a practicing, active member of their Parish Faith Community.Membership in a Parish is determined by domicile unless the family
   has chosen to register and participate in another Parish.**4
   Baptismal Preparation
   Canon #97.2: Before the completion of the seventh year, a minor is called…an infant…with the completion of the seventh year one is presumed to have the use of reason.
   Canon #867.1: Parents are obliged to see to it that infants are baptized within the first few weeks after birth; as soon as possible after birth or even before it, parents are to go to the pastor to request the sacrament for their child and to be properly prepared for it.

Parent/Guardian responsibilities:
Parent/guardian should be encouraged to give the infant a Christian
name.
Parent/guardian are expected to participate in the Sunday mass every week./
Parent/guardian have the privilege and responsibility and are encouraged to choose two persons (one of each sex) as godparents (for the purpose of this policy, the terms godparents and sponsors are equivalent) for the Baptism of their infant child. 5 Canon #972: Insofar as possible one to be baptized is to be given a sponsor who is to assist …the parents to present an infant at baptism and who will help the baptized lead a Christian life in harmony with baptism and to fulfill faithfully the obligations connected with it.
Baptismal Catechesis for Parents/Guardians and
Godparents of Infants
After the initial meeting and before the celebration of the sacrament,
parent/guardian are to participate in baptismal catechesis.
Godparents should participate with parent/guardian in the catechesis, if possible, or participate in baptismal catechesis at their local parish, if distance is a factor.9
Baptismal catechesis should include:
The Church’s teaching on Infant Baptism

1. Baptism as entrance into the family of God
2. Baptism and salvation
3. Baptism, Grace and Original Sin
   • The Role of the Faith Community
   Canon #874.2: A baptized person who belongs to a non-catholic ecclesial community is not to participate except together with a catholic sponsor and then only as a witness of the baptism.
   Canon #873: There is to be only one male sponsor or one female sponsor or one of each.
   Canon #851.2: The parents of the infant to be baptized and likewise those who are to undertake the office of sponsor are to be properly instructed in the meaning of this sacrament and the obligations which are attached to it; personally or through others the pastor is to see to it that the parents are properly formed by pastoral directions and by common prayer, gathering several families together and where possible visiting them.
   The importance of the faith practice of parent/guardian
   godparents
   The importance of the parish community in fostering
   faith
   The importance of family prayer, religious education
   and Christian parenting
   • The Liturgy of Baptism
   The Rite of Baptism
   The symbols of Baptism
   Planning the ceremony of Baptism
   Discernment of Readiness for Parents of Infants
   The parents or at least one of the parents or the person who lawfully
   takes their place must give consent for the lawful baptism of an
   infant.10 Consideration must be given to the current Colorado custodial
   family law and language situations.
   Good pastoral practice presumes that parents who petition the
   Sacrament for their child are persons of good will who ask in faith and
   have a basic understanding of their obligations.11
   It is ultimately the responsibility of the pastor/parish director, in
   collaboration with the catechist entrusted with the task of preparation, to ensure that the parents and godparents presenting an infant for the sacrament of Baptism are properly disposed and prepared to celebrate the sacrament.12
   D. There must be a well-founded hope that the infant will be brought up
   in the Catholic religion; if such a hope is altogether lacking, the baptism should be delayed according to the prescriptions of particular law and the parents are to be informed of the reasons.1310 Canon #868.1: For an infant to be baptized licitly the parents or at least one of them or the person who legitimately takes their place must consent.
   Canon #843.1: Sacred ministers cannot deny the sacraments to those who seek them at appropriate times, are properly disposed, and are not prohibited by law from receiving them.
   Canon #843.2: Pastors of souls and other members of the Christian faithful, according to their respective ecclesiastical function, have the duty to take care that those who seek the sacraments are prepared to receive them by proper evangelization and catechetical instruction, attentive to the norms issued by competent authority.
   Instruction on Infant Baptism by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, October 20, 1980, states: “In the first place it must be clear that the refusal of Baptism is not a means of exercising pressure. Nor can one speak of refusal, still less of discrimination, but rather of educational delay, according to individual cases, aimed at helping the family to grow in faith or to become more aware of its responsibilities.”
   Celebration of the Sacrament with Infants
   The sacrament is to be celebrated according to the Rite of Baptism for Children.
   The sacrament of Baptism is a communal, not a private, celebration. Sunday is the recommended day for celebrating Baptism.
   The place for the celebration of Baptism is the parish church of the parents.When, for a just cause, an infant is to be baptized in a church other than the parish church of the parents, permission of their parish pastor is required.
   The sacrament itself consists of the washing in water by way of immersion or pouring the water over the candidate’s head16 and saying the words, “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”
   Postbaptismal Mystagogy for Parents of Infants
   Following the celebration of the sacrament, the parish priest and/or
   delegate from the parish community is encouraged to:
   • talk with the family and provide support for them to become active members of the parish community;
   • gather small groups of parents of newly baptized infants to deepen their understanding of the baptismal event, their own faith, and their critical role as Christian parents in the faith formation of their children;
   • help the parents to more fully participate in the Sunday celebration of Eucharist and in the life of the parish.
   Opportunities for adult catechesis toward lifelong conversion should
   be provided for the parents.
   Canon #868.1 #2: there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.
   Canon #856: Although baptism may be celebrated on any day, it is recommended that ordinarily it is celebrated on a Sunday or if possible, at the Easter Vigil.
   Canon #857.1: Outside a case of necessity, the proper place is a church or oratory.
   Canon #857.2: As a rule adults are to be baptized in their own parish church and infants in the parish church proper to their parents, unless a just cause suggests otherwise.
   Canon #860.1: Outside the case of necessity, baptism is not to be conferred in private homes, unless the local ordinary has permitted this for a grave cause.
   Canon #854: Baptism is to be conferred either by immersion or by pouring; the prescripts of the conference of bishops are to be observed.
   Records
   The names of those who are initiated through the sacrament of Baptism, the minister, the godparents and the place and date of the ceremony, are to be written in the baptismal registers of the parish where the baptism takes place.17
   VIII. Pastoral Considerations
   Adopted Children
   Taking into consideration all the legal aspects of adoption, it is appropriate that only after the adoption is finalized should a family ask to celebrate the sacrament of Baptism with their new child.Promulgated on September 30, 2004 by
   Most Reverend Michael J. Sheridan
   Bishop of Colorado Springs
   Bibliography of References Used
   For the Policies for the Celebration of Infant Baptism
   Canon The Code of Canon Law
   Instruction on Infant Baptism By the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, October 20, 1980

 

[figs]

Here you go, a link to the Code of Canon Law, from the Vatican’s site

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2X.HTM

 

[TEPO]

This thread had spun out of control, and we have long ago lost the original poster (I have spoken to her privately).

I wonder if a new thread on the topic of deacon baptism or WWJD would be a good idea at this point.

I also think we should ask ourselves if we, in our responses here, behaved in a manner that would inspire StressedMummy to want to become Catholic. Did we even tell her what she’s missing? How TRUE, wonderful, complete, enriching and fulfilling it is? Did we say anything at all that would make her want to rush right over to the church and sign up for RCIA so that she could become fully Catholic and have her children baptized?

I feel sorry for her.

All she was met with here is snide remarks about her boyfriend (most of these were early on), inter-forum arguing, and yes a little bit of good advice that I fear is lost in the sea of bickering. But she’d long since stopped reading.

I know we can do better.

Pray for her!

So what did she say…?

Just because it was a “private” message doesn’t mean it’s against CAF rules to summarize what she said and post it here… Besides, you already said she was probably no longer reading this thread.

Just give us a little idea what she said…

 

[Irishgal49]

You miss the point. The two children do not live in the EXACT same circumstances.

One child has a Catholic father, the other one does not.

Then she should go to another faith and have them baptized if the Catholic Church refuses to do it.

 

[Irishgal49]

This thread had spun out of control, and we have long ago lost the original poster (I have spoken to her privately).

I wonder if a new thread on the topic of deacon baptism or WWJD would be a good idea at this point.

I also think we should ask ourselves if we, in our responses here, behaved in a manner that would inspire StressedMummy to want to become Catholic. Did we even tell her what she’s missing? How TRUE, wonderful, complete, enriching and fulfilling it is? Did we say anything at all that would make her want to rush right over to the church and sign up for RCIA so that she could become fully Catholic and have her children baptized?

I feel sorry for her.

All she was met with here is snide remarks about her boyfriend (most of these were early on), inter-forum arguing, and yes a little bit of good advice that I fear is lost in the sea of bickering. But she’d long since stopped reading.

I know we can do better.

Pray for her!

She wouldn’t be allowed to become Catholic because she’s forever “tainted” and can’t clean herself up enough to be accepted in the Catholic Church. Remember???

And this cracks me up…this great priest will baptize the girl because her father is “Catholic”??? This is the guy who refuses to marry the woman asking for her children’s baptism? This is the person the priest has faith will raise one of the children Catholic? This is the person who will set a Catholic example. REALLY???

 

[figs]

She wouldn’t be allowed to become Catholic because she’s forever “tainted” and can’t clean herself up enough to be accepted in the Catholic Church. Remember???

And this cracks me up…this great priest will baptize the girl because her father is “Catholic”??? This is the guy who refuses to marry the woman asking for her children’s baptism? This is the person the priest has faith will raise one of the children Catholic? This is the person who will set a Catholic example. REALLY???

Ontop of the fact that it does not matter if the father is catholic or not. It is not a requirement for either parent to be Catholic. check the link to the Canon Law

Many, including myself, have been baptised Catholic with one or both NON Catholic parents standing in for their children.

If enrollment in a Catholic school, which the mother said the boy was going to attend, this Sept, if that isn’t enough to give reasonable hope the child will be raised in the faith, I don’t know what is.

 

[Irishgal49]

Ontop of the fact that it does not matter if the father is catholic or not. It is not a requirement for either parent to be Catholic. check the link to the Canon Law

Many, including myself, have been baptized Catholic with one or both NON Catholic parents standing in for their children.

If enrollment in a Catholic school, which the mother said the boy was going to attend, this Sept, if that isn’t enough to give reasonable hope the child will be raised in the faith, I don’t know what is.

I totally agree with you! And sadly, the Church has succeeded in driving away another potential convert. We talk about being against abortion and then the priest slams her for having children by two different fathers. Did it occur to him that she could have aborted one and he’d never know? What happened to loving people into a new way of living? Winning them to Christ with LOVE??? I’m so disgusted with the arrogance I see. This is precisely why I only attend Sunday Mass. I am so tired and weary of seeing people lording over others, acting like they are the “chosen ones” with their healing power or whatever they feel makes them superior…sad, so sad. But I do know this, Jesus will confront them on it and be rest assured, the blood of those lost by arrogance and rejection will be answered for in the end. I had the haughtiest, most pompous priest you could imagine. But, he just didn’t have much experience but seemed to think he was super holy and had all the answers. He’s not a bad priest in the larger aspect, just likes his favorites and totally ignores everyone else.

I’m at a church now with a priest who has been serving well over 20 years. The difference is like night and day. He is so loving and while he is still firm in the faith (which is great) he knows what he is doing…that’s why I am afraid she is taking one bigoted opinion and assuming all priests feel this way. Too bad she can’t go to another priest and see what’s said. I know our church would have said yes since the boy is going to attend Catholic school. We just require 2 classes, and a meeting with the sister to go over the service and then it’s scheduled. We are ALL sinners, no one is worthy…quit trying to be booking agents (gambling on who will follow through or not)–you’d be surprised at who ends up staying and who drops out. Sadly I’m sure neither of them will want anything to do with the Catholic Church. I don’t blame them either.

Nice hearing your comments God bless!

 

[JimmyBru]

I am really concerned that an interpretation of the CATHOLIC Code of Canon Law is reduced to not require either parent to be Catholic. For there to be a founded hope that the child be raised Catholic, at least one parent MUST be Catholic. If we were to infer anything, since this is a Code of Canon Law for the CATHOLIC Church, we should infer that there must be a Catholic parent involved.

As has been said on this thread, it is impossible to know all the details from the OP or Priest since there are tempers and emotions influencing the words. But what is known is that a non-Catholic who had a child with a non-Catholic is asking for Catholic Baptism without danger of death to the child. The Priest is correct in not allowing a Catholic Baptism for that child since there is little hope of that child being raised in a proper Catholic home by any Catholic parent.

That being said, the Catholic Church is not a ‘club’ to belong to so you have ‘fire insurance’. Being Catholic goes way deeper than any external perception of pouring of water on the head. Baptism is a Sacrament. A Sacrament of immense power and brings with it immense responsibilities. It is the gateway to Heaven, yes, and the entry point into the unbounded love of the Holy Trinity. We cannot take it lightly. “Baptism now saves you”, but a life strewn with no regard for the teachings of the Church, disrespect for ordained clergy, denial of the Sacrament of Marriage, and not wanting to believe in the fullness of truth is a life that turns its back on God. No one judges a heart, but we are instructed to judge actions and urged to fraternal correction.

I am just saddened by the confusion of the laity (and some clergy), and it is time we unite in opposing the real threat that looms in this world. If you think that threat is the Catholic Church, well - think again…

 

[maryjk]

She wouldn’t be allowed to become Catholic because she’s forever “tainted” and can’t clean herself up enough to be accepted in the Catholic Church. Remember???

Who ever said that she wouldn’t ever be allowed to become Catholic? She has never said that she is interested. She is Protestant, her partner is Catholic. She was asking about a child being “Christened,” not Baptized. She was simply asking about having that take place in a Catholic Church because her partner is Catholic. There has been no indication that she wants anything from the Church but a “Christening.”

And this cracks me up…this great priest will baptize the girl because her father is “Catholic”??? This is the guy who refuses to marry the woman asking for her children’s baptism? This is the person the priest has faith will raise one of the children Catholic? This is the person who will set a Catholic example. REALLY???

Yes, her partner is Catholic, as is his whole family.

If having the boy christened or Baptized is so important, why did they wait until the child was 4? Or did this simply come up because the father of the girl wants his child baptized? Are they baptizing him so he doesn’t feel left out? Or because he starts Catholic school in the fall? All of these are questions that perhaps the priest asked. And it could be that the answers showed a parent that is not having the child baptized for the right reasons.

 

[EvelynEVF]

If he GENUINELY feels that way, he needs to leave the priesthood immediately.

Really? He’s not allowed to feel hurt and frustrated at what he sees happening? Because he perceives the disrespect and apathy aimed at him and the Church? I think clergy like this are the ones we need most to stick around, because they understand how high the stakes are.

 

[clem456]

I am really concerned that an interpretation of the CATHOLIC Code of Canon Law is reduced to not require either parent to be Catholic. For there to be a founded hope that the child be raised Catholic, at least one parent MUST be Catholic. If we were to infer anything, since this is a Code of Canon Law for the CATHOLIC Church, we should infer that there must be a Catholic parent involved.

As has been said on this thread, it is impossible to know all the details from the OP or Priest since there are tempers and emotions influencing the words. But what is known is that a non-Catholic who had a child with a non-Catholic is asking for Catholic Baptism without danger of death to the child. The Priest is correct in not allowing a Catholic Baptism for that child since there is little hope of that child being raised in a proper Catholic home by any Catholic parent.

That being said, the Catholic Church is not a ‘club’ to belong to so you have ‘fire insurance’. Being Catholic goes way deeper than any external perception of pouring of water on the head. Baptism is a Sacrament. A Sacrament of immense power and brings with it immense responsibilities. It is the gateway to Heaven, yes, and the entry point into the unbounded love of the Holy Trinity. We cannot take it lightly. “Baptism now saves you”, but a life strewn with no regard for the teachings of the Church, disrespect for ordained clergy, denial of the Sacrament of Marriage, and not wanting to believe in the fullness of truth is a life that turns its back on God. No one judges a heart, but we are instructed to judge actions and urged to fraternal correction.

I am just saddened by the confusion of the laity (and some clergy), and it is time we unite in opposing the real threat that looms in this world. If you think that threat is the Catholic Church, well - think again…

It sems to me that no one is debating the responsibilities of being Catholic. It seems the question might be, is it better for a child to be baptised, regardless of the errors of the parents? What I hear you saying or implying, is that baptism may become a millstone around the child’s neck, because he will be baptised into Catholicism, but is in danger of not practicing, and therefore he will be exposed to the truth, but possibly never assent to it? Is that correct or am I misreading?
What is the value of baptism to an individual child’s soul, irrespective of the state of the parent’s soul?

 

[FAB]

Such hard hearted people. If one wants to see why so many leave the faith, just look at some of these comments. Were is the Christian welcoming? Were is Christ love ? Were is letting the children come to Him, not just the two children, but the adults as well?
We are the Church of Christ, The Church commanded to baptise in His father’s name, His and the Spirit. But yet look how willing so many are willing to toss aside this family. Yes it is unconditional, They are living in the eyesof the Church a sinful lifestyle, but as Christ said, them him without sin cast the first stone.
Yes we have our canon and our doctrine, and yes we need to follow them, but they must be followed in such way that they do not prevent us from ministering and helping to the people we are sent. They need our guiadance and love, not our condemnation either through words or actions.

 

[clem456]

Really? He’s not allowed to feel hurt and frustrated at what he sees happening? Because he perceives the disrespect and apathy aimed at him and the Church? I think clergy like this are the ones we need most to stick around, because they understand how high the stakes are.

But two separate issues.
One is the priest’s justified frustration with the errors of the parents. If they need direct correction, fine. The other is the value of baptism for the child. If the priest SHOULD baptise the child, his -feelings- need to be put in their place.

 

[EvelynEVF]

But two separate issues.
One is the priest’s justified frustration with the errors of the parents. If they need direct correction, fine. The other is the value of baptism for the child. If the priest SHOULD baptise the child, his -feelings- need to be put in their place.

I was specifically responding to a poster who explicitly insisted that any priest frustrated with demands for Sacraments by people who have no intention of living as Catholics, should leave the priesthood immediately.

Still, a sacrament is a sacrament, no? So should we provide a Catholic wedding to people who are not part of the Church but wish to have those graces in matrimony? Or anoint sick people who aren’t Catholic, because we don’t want to withhold those graces from them? Or let people in RCIA receive Eucharist because they are on heir way to becoming Catholic? I think the principle is the same no matter which sacrament we’re talking about, but things feel more heated because this particular conversation is about little kids.

 

[clem456]

I was specifically responding to a poster who explicitly insisted that any priest frustrated with demands for Sacraments by people who have no intention of living as Catholics, should leave the priesthood immediately.

Still, a sacrament is a sacrament, no? So should we provide a Catholic wedding to people who are not part of the Church but wish to have those graces in matrimony? Or anoint sick people who aren’t Catholic, because we don’t want to withhold those graces from them? Or let people in RCIA receive Eucharist because they are on heir way to becoming Catholic? I think the principle is the same no matter which sacrament we’re talking about, but things feel more heated because this particular conversation is about little kids.

Right, the question is really, the child, who has no recourse to life’s wisdom and experience, and is at the mercy of wayward parents for his spiritual upbringing. This is different than my protestant adult friend who can’t understand why he shouldn’t just receive communion in a Catholic Church.
So the question seems to be… the value of baptism for a child, irrespective of the errors of the parents. Is it better for a child to not ever be baptized, because of the errors of his parents, or not? Is the child culpable at 1 or 2 or 3 years old, for his parent’s errors?

 

[maryjk]

Such hard hearted people. If one wants to see why so many leave the faith, just look at some of these comments. Were is the Christian welcoming? Were is Christ love ? Were is letting the children come to Him, not just the two children, but the adults as well?
We are the Church of Christ, The Church commanded to baptize in His father’s name, His and the Spirit. But yet look how willing so many are willing to toss aside this family. Yes it is unconditional, They are living in the eyes of the Church a sinful lifestyle, but as Christ said, them him without sin cast the first stone.
Yes we have our canon and our doctrine, and yes we need to follow them, but they must be followed in such way that they do not prevent us from ministering and helping to the people we are sent. They need our gudance and love, not our condemnation either through words or actions.

As a deacon, shouldn’t you post the entire message of Jesus? Instead of picking and choosing the quote that suits your needs?

We are called to judge. In fact, are we not called, as a spiritual work of mercy to “admonish the sinner.” How are we to do that if we cannot call out sin?

No where have I seen in the OP’s responses where she is AT ALL interested in the Catholic church. No where did I see her indicate AT ALL that she had any interest in joining the church.

Her current live in lover wants his daughter Baptized. So, to include everyone and because her son is starting school at a Catholic School, she wants to have him “Christened.” How can a Deacon of the Catholic Church, not see that as a problem???

 

[Diana_Catherine]

How incredibly rude this priest is to offer baptism to one child and not the other when they both live in the EXACT same circumstances. HE should be ashamed and I’d tell him to his face.

Now this is sad.

I totally agree with you! And sadly, the Church has succeeded in driving away another potential convert. We talk about being against abortion and then the priest slams her for having children by two different fathers. Did it occur to him that she could have aborted one and he’d never know? What happened to loving people into a new way of living? Winning them to Christ with LOVE??? I’m so disgusted with the arrogance I see. This is precisely why I only attend Sunday Mass. I am so tired and weary of seeing people lording over others, acting like they are the “chosen ones” with their healing power or whatever they feel makes them superior…sad, so sad. But I do know this, Jesus will confront them on it and be rest assured, the blood of those lost by arrogance and rejection will be answered for in the end. I had the haughtiest, most pompous priest you could imagine. But, he just didn’t have much experience but seemed to think he was super holy and had all the answers. He’s not a bad priest in the larger aspect, just likes his favorites and totally ignores everyone else.

I’m at a church now with a priest who has been serving well over 20 years. The difference is like night and day. He is so loving and while he is still firm in the faith (which is great) he knows what he is doing…that’s why I am afraid she is taking one bigoted opinion and assuming all priests feel this way. Too bad she can’t go to another priest and see what’s said. I know our church would have said yes since the boy is going to attend Catholic school. We just require 2 classes, and a meeting with the sister to go over the service and then it’s scheduled. We are ALL sinners, no one is worthy…quit trying to be booking agents (gambling on who will follow through or not)–you’d be surprised at who ends up staying and who drops out. Sadly I’m sure neither of them will want anything to do with the Catholic Church. I don’t blame them either.

Nice hearing your comments God bless!

I have a feeling it won’t be the church or the priest driving her away but comments such as these. I am sure the priest gave her guidance and directed her in the best way to proceed for her, her partner, and her children. We have not heard his side of the story and only part of hers. I am sure she is telling us what she heard and I totally believe her but we need to hear both sides. What else did the priest have to say and if he is following the guidelines set down by the church then I am sure other priests will tell her the same thing. It is the priest who knows best, not strangers on the internet. He is who she should follow because he is following ways set out by the church which is guided by the Holy Spirit. Sometimes it is not easy to follow God’s ways but his ways are always best and only for our benefit. God’s ways are to bring all of them in to his arms.

To say you would tell a priest to his face he is rude only shows a lack of respect for our priests and does nothing to draw people into the church or even bring them closer to the Lord.

The best type of advice we could give to her is to go back to the priest and follow his instructions and pray for God’s guidance, not tell her to search around for other priests or tell them how rude they are.

 

[maryjk]

Right, the question is really, the child, who has no recourse to life’s wisdom and experience, and is at the mercy of wayward parents for his spiritual upbringing. This is different than my protestant adult friend who can’t understand why he shouldn’t just receive communion in a Catholic Church.
So the question seems to be… the value of baptism for a child, irrespective of the errors of the parents. Is it better for a child to not ever be baptized, because of the errors of his parents, or not? Is the child culpable at 1 or 2 or 3 years old, for his parent’s errors?

The child is not being held culpable for his parents errors. The mother is being told that the priest does not hold hope that the child will be raised Catholic. Since the priest said he would not baptize the child, the priest must not see any of the hope. It could very well be that once the child is older, an adult, he will decide to join the Church. But for now, the priest must look at the current situation.

Some of us here think the priest made the right decision. Although, I would have said no to the daughter too. But maybe the priest knows the family and knows that they will step in for their grandchild/niece/cousin. Without that, in 20 years we will see a post here from a young lady complaining that her family doesn’t want to attend her beach wedding because they claim she is Catholic, but she doesn’t know anything about being Catholic.

 

[TEPO]

As a deacon, shouldn’t you post the entire message of Jesus? Instead of picking and choosing the quote that suits your needs?

We are called to judge. In fact, are we not called, as a spiritual work of mercy to “admonish the sinner.” How are we to do that if we cannot call out sin?

No where have I seen in the OP’s responses where she is AT ALL interested in the Catholic church. No where did I see her indicate AT ALL that she had any interest in joining the church.

Her current live in lover wants his daughter Baptized. So, to include everyone and because her son is starting school at a Catholic School, she wants to have him “Christened.” How can a Deacon of the Catholic Church, not see that as a problem???

Yes, we’re called to judge sin, but if someone is not willing to even to look for the truth, then what is the merit in pointing out that persons sin. We’re not really expected to spell everything out for every single person are we…? After all, the Virtues are there to do it for God, and the Holy Spirit too.

If someone is not willing to act on Gods grace, then that is there decision… The Church isn’t here to impose anything on anyone.