Our Son refused by the priest.

[figs]

But, they aren’t the exact same conditions. The living conditions for the children are the same now, but the fathers are not the same or the same faith. I do agree, though, that it doesn’t seem likely that either child is a good candidate for Baptism right now as there doesn’t appear to be a well-founded hope that they will be raised in the Faith. There is always hope for the future, though.

No not exactly the same, but it is the same two that are the ones in care of the children.
The outcome doesn’t look good, I agree completely, so to say, “ok” for the one and then make an issue of the other… isn’t good.
(sighs)

 

[Robertanthony]

I would like my children christened because I believe if you are not christened you won’t go to heaven. It’s my partner that wants them to be Catholics as its his family’s tradition! And our boy is supposed to be starting a catholic school in Sept.

I** am very surprised at the amount of “perfect” people in this world and how amazin that they all came together in this very thread… **obviously myself excluded because I have had children out of wedlock, let god strike me down dead right now if he’s that bothered! I doubt Jesus himself would turn away my child & be so rude & hurtful towards a person! … And didn’t Joseph bring up a child that wasn’t “biologically” his!

Thanks for the compliment, however I can’t accept it! I can understand that you feel rejected and left out. If I may add, I think what the priest said about you having kids from 2 dads was less than charitable IMHO. If you want it that badly that your son be baptised in a Catholic church, comply with what the Church requires of you: that you become a full-blown Catholic. I understand you’re hurt and angry. I think God has no intention of striking you down dead right now, if anything he’s probably beckoning you, dear StressedMummy82.

 

[JRKH]

Thanks for your calm, well reasoned response, James. I needed that, I think. When children are involved it makes things difficult.

My issue i; two children, different treatment regarding baptism.
It is the same two adults standing up for both of the children.
But the priest feels the current situation is not good for the one but is alright for the other.
If the priest had said no to them both, the adults need to be married, show stability, take steps to become Catholic, etc., then I would have understood and not had a second thought, but to separate the two under the exact same conditions just doesn’t set right with me.

In this I must say that I concur - but again - we simply don’t have all the particulars…

Peace
James

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I would like my children christened because I believe if you are not christened you won’t go to heaven. It’s my partner that wants them to be Catholics as its his family’s tradition! And our boy is supposed to be starting a catholic school in Sept.

As Catholics we do not believe that baptism (we do not really use the word christening) is all that is required to go to heaven. There is a whole lot more that follows from this.

How do you expect your children to learn and follow the Faith if you and your “partner” are choosing not to do so.

You teach by your actions and your current actions are saying that the Faith does not matter, all that matters is what you and your “partner” want.

 

[TimothyH]

I would like my children christened because I believe if you are not christened you won’t go to heaven. It’s my partner that wants them to be Catholics as its his family’s tradition! And our boy is supposed to be starting a catholic school in Sept.

I am very surprised at the amount of “perfect” people in this world and how amazin that they all came together in this very thread… obviously myself excluded because I have had children out of wedlock, let god strike me down dead right now if he’s that bothered! I doubt Jesus himself would turn away my child & be so rude & hurtful towards a person! … And didn’t Joseph bring up a child that wasn’t “biologically” his!

I wouldn’t go around asking God to strike you dead if he is bothered by your behavior. I wouldn’t tempt God, nor put him to the test. Be careful what you ask God for.

We all fall short. No one here is perfect. But with all due respect, you came here asking questions. No one came knocking on your door. No one stuck their nose into your business. You asked.

You came to a Catholic website and you asked, and many, including at least two ordained members of the clergy explained it to you.

-Tim-

 

[Lapey]

And didn’t Joseph bring up a child that wasn’t “biologically” his!

This statement is very true…doesn’t apply here though, sorry. Both Joseph and Mary were Jewish and they were married. Joseph had legal right and spiritual right to speak for and decide what was best for Jesus. You are not Catholic; your boy friend is but has no legal or spiritual right to speak for your son. The priest did not simply make a “call” as one other poster wrote; he followed canon law which he is required to do. He could have delayed the daughter’s baptism as well this I agree, but he could not have licitly baptized your son; validly yes but not licitly, big difference.

Now please don’t continue to blame the priest or me or any other posters by saying we are judging you, that is God’s job. My job is to preach the gospel, in and out of season. That means I am required to preach the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ whether people want to hear it or not, whether they agree with it or not. Truth is truth.

Now as I and others have said, you can remain bitter and blame every one but your self, or you can hear God’s voice and follow Him. He is calling you and your kids and your boyfriend home. It will not be easy or popular, but if you want what is good for your kids you will do it. If you want what is easy and seems good for yourself here and now, then continue down the path you are heading, it’s your choice.

 

[TEPO]

In my opinion this thread was handled as awfully as possible… Did anyone mention why it’s important to become Catholic, or what it means to be part of the Church…? You know that by just browsing through this thread, everyone here with the exception of one maybe two come off as completely arrogant. We’ve really painted an ugly picture of the Church today. Its been a disappointment.

 

[Irishgal49]

Well, it was the priest’s call, not mine or yours or anyone else’s. If there were no hope that any child would reach the age of reason then you might have a point. Even the Mormons go about conferring what they think is a baptism upon even our deceased ancestors to purportedly assure their salvation.

The lack of a baptism is not a surety of damnation just as the indelible mark of baptism is not a surety of salvation. Let’s let the priests do their jobs while we do ours.

I wasn’t criticizing the priest, I’m expressing an opinion. That is what a forum is. I had a child die so believe me, they don’t all make it to adulthood. I firmly believe the grace of that sacrament will tug and tug and tug on that heart and God will always try to call them home.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Well, lets just say then, we don’t agree. I still think it is all hooey. Both children should be treated the same. Either they are both baptised or not.

As for the priest, perhaps a bit of guidence instead of her coming to the internet for advise??!!

I don’t care if she is the harlot of the county, the priest could have phrased that a whole lot differently then making the assumptions on weather or not the mother “cares”, that’s just plain bad form, period

But don’t you see that both the children are NOT the same? She has 2 children by 2 different men, and the son’s father is not in their lives, evidently.

If the OP is serious about baptism (she doesn’t seem to understand the difference between baptism and christening), then she will be ready to straighten out her life. If that means telling her boyfriend and the mother of her daughter, “Either we get married, or I move out,” then so be it. Some guys are tools and need a swift kick in the patoot.

None of this has anything to do with the Church. The Church watches out for our souls even when we treat them rather cheaply.

 

[TEPO]

Now as I and others have said, you can remain bitter and blame every one but your self

:tiphat: :clapping: … Bravo…! Bravo…!

 

[Irishgal49]

Be careful how you phrase things, your son is not refused, he is denied a Sacrament because the priest feels that you and your partner do not meet the criteria that have to be met for a baptism to take place. Now, I have to ask, the child is 4, hasn’t reached the age of reason yet, baptism would remove original sin from his soul, isn’t that a benefit that he shouldn’t be denied regardless of his parents’ situation? Wouldn’t that give him an openness to the things of God, that alone, in itself? I’m not talking about parents who are aggressive atheists, anti-clerical etc. but in cases like these what is the rationale for denying a 4 year old child baptism? By baptism, you are a new creature, cleansed of original sin (but not free from its consequences), admitted into God’s family, a child only gets that if he’s lucky enough to have parents who are upstanding, Sunday Mass-going members of the Catholic Church?

I know that’s what I’m thinking “PUNISH THE CHILD FOR THE SINS OF THE PARENTS” That seems to totally arrogant and judgmental–wonder if it was my priest, praise God my novena was answered and he’s moving. I just have no tolerance for arrogance and being pompous.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

In my opinion this thread was handled as awfully as possible… Did anyone mention why it’s important to become Catholic, or what it means to be part of the Church…? You know that by just browsing through this thread, everyone here with the exception of one maybe two come off as completely arrogant. We’ve really painted an ugly picture of the Church today. Its been a disappointment.

Sorry, I don’t agree. We’ve been as charitable as possible. The ones who have been arrogant are the ones who are calling the Church “a load of hooey.”

There is no need to give the OP reasons to become Catholic. Her boyfriend isn’t practicing and she has expressed only an interest in having the children “christened.” Of course we’d rather she convert and the boyfriend and father of her daughter marry her and adopt her son! That should be plain. But what we are trying to clarify is that the Church is not an institution where you get to roll through the drive-through lane, order what you want, and drive away. There are responsibilities and obligations, and baptism is a BIG DEAL. Not something to take lightly.

Those of you who have been complaining about the Church on this thread are the ones who should be ashamed.

 

[Irishgal49]

Very true, but only the daughter has a Catholic parent requesting baptism. There is still the requirement of a reasonable assurance of raising the daughter in the faith as well. This priest could have, if he felt cause or concern, delayed baptism of the girl too.

Authority is the difference with these two little ones, the boy has no Catholic parent to speak for him, the girl does.

How sad. I speak for many with no voice (social worker). I can only hope when I can’t speak for me someone will give me that grace of a sacrament anyway. Totally and horribly sad.

 

[Lapey]

In my opinion this thread was handled as awfully as possible… Did anyone mention why it’s important to become Catholic, or what it means to be part of the Church…? You know that by just browsing through this thread, everyone here with the exception of one maybe two come off as completely arrogant. We’ve really painted an ugly picture of the Church today. Its been a disappointment.

Really? To which group do you place my comments of what the guidelines are? What do you prescribe we do, not teach truth; just make people feel good in their current situations so they feel better? What did Jesus say to the woman caught in adultery, “Then Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go, [and] from now on do not sin any more.”

No one is being condemned here, only instructed in the faith. If that is what you call arrogant, then I guess I am guilty as charged.

PS. Did Jesus paint a ugly picture of the Church that day as well?

 

[Irishgal49]

---

Thank you, that definently hit home! I don’t feel offended by Ppls comments,
I feel some are a little harsh but true I suppose, can’t blame ppl for believing! I have also spoke again to the priest, which did not go too well. It ended with him suggesting that me & my son go and support my faith, I replied I wouldn’t like my 2 children to have 2 different religions! To which he replied “well you don’t mind them having 2 different Dads!” I was quite shocked & upset (again) to be honest, it’s a horrible situation as a Mother, AMD I just don’t know where to go from here.

Thank you to every1 for all your comments.

Sounds like lack of tact and experience. Try another priest, NOT to get a different answer but to get better guidance. This is a HUGE decision. I just went through being treated horribly by a priest. Now I know better. It was confirmed by a much more experienced priest who is really working with me. It’s worth looking for someone who has compassion since you may be making HUGE changes in your life. Don’t do what I did and endure 6 months of getting beat up…it’s not worth it. Find someone who will give you compassion and firm direction. I have kids from 2 different dads…so what? I came to the faith and God loves them all the same.

 

[Lapey]

How sad. I speak for many with no voice (social worker). I can only hope when I can’t speak for me someone will give me that grace of a sacrament anyway. Totally and horribly sad.

What is sad is that we can water down truth so much that it is not truth anymore. What is even sadder that when someone does speak the truth it is ridiculed.

 

[Lapey]

Sounds like lack of tact and experience. Try another priest, NOT to get a different answer but to get better guidance. This is a HUGE decision. I just went through being treated horribly by a priest. Now I know better. It was confirmed by a much more experienced priest who is really working with me. It’s worth looking for someone who has compassion since you may be making HUGE changes in your life. Don’t do what I did and endure 6 months of getting beat up…it’s not worth it. Find someone who will give you compassion and firm direction. I have kids from 2 different dads…so what? ** I came to the faith and God loves them all the same**.

I highlighted the key phrase in your post. This is what we have been saying from the beginning. If the priest is not helping, I agree go to another, but the change has to be made on the OP’s part to come into the Church, as you have! Praise God!!!

It’s all about canon 1752!!!

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Sounds like lack of tact and experience. Try another priest, NOT to get a different answer but to get better guidance. This is a HUGE decision. I just went through being treated horribly by a priest. Now I know better. It was confirmed by a much more experienced priest who is really working with me. It’s worth looking for someone who has compassion since you may be making HUGE changes in your life. Don’t do what I did and endure 6 months of getting beat up…it’s not worth it. Find someone who will give you compassion and firm direction. I have kids from 2 different dads…so what? I came to the faith and God loves them all the same.

Actually since the priest is not here to defend himself and we only have one side of the story from a woman who is unhappy because she is not getting her way I will fall on the side of the priest.

I really doubt that the priest said what she says he did. She heard what she wanted to hear.

For those of you who do not know. Baptizing a child into the Catholic Faith when he has no chance of being raised in the Faith and when he has as his primary teachers those who could care less about the Faith and give him an example of life by living in sin is just as bad if not worse than not baptizing him.

 

[Irishgal49]

OK I’m going to assume you are totally serious…

It is in no way blaming the child to not baptize them.

If you wanted to be allowed to practice medicine but were known to have never studied a day of medicine in your life, your request would naturally be denied.

We are not talking about the children’s qualifications, we are talking about denying them the grace in the sacrament of baptism through no fault of their own.

Not that you’re in any way being punished - since when is simply being told ‘no’ a punishment? You’re being denied because experience shows that people who haven’t studied medicine are rarely good doctors. And the fact that a handful of people in history probably managed without the study isn’t justification enough for the massive risk of allowing a whole bunch of woefully unprepared would-be doctors loose on the world.

So “would be Catholics” are bad? I’m a would be Catholic some days, let me tell you. I’m FAR from perfect so maybe I should give back my paper. God forbid we have 500 baptized children “loose in the world”…maybe they would come back???

Same goes with being Catholic. Merely being baptized Catholic puts all sorts of obligations on a person. Many only find this out later in life, also find out that they can do nothing about it, and feel incredibly bitter and resentful that they were ‘stuck’ with the lifelong obligations.

HUH??? If I didn’t know I had the obligations how could I be angry? And what’s that? Catholicism is about choosing to follow God and the Church’s teachings, if it’s merely an obligation, you might want to go somewhere else? And if the did, would that be so bad? So he’s a Methodist Christian or a Lutheran Christian? At least he has faith in Christ. I have never met someone who said, “I am so ticked off my mom had me baptized Catholic.” Never once. They either embrace it or walk away and most that I personally know that walk away, were in very strong Catholic homes and felt oppressed by it. Not siding with them, just saying what at least 5 people I know have said to me. GOOD STRONG Catholic homes.

It’s totally a double edged sword - benefits but also responsibilities, as those children would have found out had they lived.

Had they lived? That was said so cold I’m stunned, I have absolutely no response for that. How cruel. My comments stand in light of that brutal remark.

 

[rebeccajohns]

Don’t give up and try another church. Where I live we have had our children in the family all baptized and not necessarily are both parents either biological or Catholics, and we have been able to get them baptized. This is a rediculous excuse from the church for not baptizing a child. I am sorry but this is not right. You have full custody of your child, and you should be able to raise him Catholic and get him baptized. God be w/ you and make this happen for you. Hang in there and don’t give up. This is what happens a lot in the Catholic church. A lot of times there are the priest and sometimes the people who make it so difficult and uncomfortable for ppl to want to become more involved in the church, but you have to move away those obstacles and find the priests and the ppl that are kind, respectful and helpful in the church. These are the ones that bring more to our church. Unfortunately you still run into the ones that make it so difficult but see it as a test from God and continue your faith regardless of how difficult they make it. God Bless.