Our Son refused by the priest.

[figs]

Brother, I have to disagree with you. The canon says resonable expectation that the child will be raised Catholic. Since the daughter is apparently being baptised and will be raise in the faith, there can be an expectation that the son would be as well. Both children are hers.

I will point out that any part of the canon can have a dispensation based on pastoral reasons. We need to look beyond the law and look at what message this action is sending to the boy, and how that could effect his future believe and faith. will he have questions that the Church accepted his his sister amd he was not good enough? Is he being marked with the sins of the mother? We have clergy cannot always just take the law and say that’s final. If we do we are not being pastoral, just rule follows and we see how well that has worked out in the past.

This is the point I was trying to stress the other day.

And if it is the priest’s “call” why on eather would he make such and awkward call?
Now there is nothing but confusion and hurt, and I am really referring to the little boy but this manouver has managed to put a bad taste in everyone’s mouth.
Instead of looking like the “Welcoming church” that we try portray in adverts trying to get people to the faith, we’ve achieved the opposite in this case.

Having been personally involved in one of those, one pesron gets baptised and the other doesn’t, I can assure you the child DOES certainly remember the hurt and what their mind has interpreted as rejection.

It would have been far better to decline baptising BOTH children until a pile of things were sorted first.
But, hey, this is my opinion, I just see it all as a real shame.

 

[Cristiano]

This is the point I was trying to stress the other day.

And if it is the priest’s “call” why on eather would he make such and awkward call?
Now there is nothing but confusion and hurt, and I am really referring to the little boy but this manouver has managed to put a bad taste in everyone’s mouth.
Instead of looking like the “Welcoming church” that we try portray in adverts trying to get people to the faith, we’ve achieved the opposite in this case.

Having been personally involved in one of those, one pesron gets baptised and the other doesn’t, I can assure you the child DOES certainly remember the hurt and what their mind has interpreted as rejection.

It would have been far better to decline baptising BOTH children until a pile of things were sorted first.
But, hey, this is my opinion, I just see it all as a real shame.

It sounds to me that you are relieving the parents from all of their responsibilities. The parents are the primary educators of the children and if the children have a negative reaction the first place where we should search for the cause is with the parents. It is always easy to blame others for our ignorance or lack of intent. You are correct that the priest had to make an awkward decision. If sensitivity is so important to the parents then they are the ones to refrain from having either child baptized. The Catholic Church is the holder of the Truth and it is not welcoming when it comes to falsehoods.

 

[SwizzleStick]

In my opinion this thread was handled as awfully as possible… Did anyone mention why it’s important to become Catholic, or what it means to be part of the Church…? You know that by just browsing through this thread, everyone here with the exception of one maybe two come off as completely arrogant. We’ve really painted an ugly picture of the Church today. Its been a disappointment.
englishredrose;9412029:

Actually, I did attempt to do just that when I explained the importance of joining in the Lords Family, The Church. Naturally I couldn’t expand because I don’t know what the Catholic Church precisely teaches. But the importance of becoming rather than just the label was my actual aim even if it was overlooked and I am sorry but I am hopeless at bringing in quotes to the post:blush: to back up what I mean so you’ll have to search them yourself and try re reading the one post where I say about joining the community.

Here you go.

He isn’t refusing your son,

Just wants you all to be fully fledged members of the Catholic Church otherwise what is the point of baptising your son and daughter if you are not going through with it all… Join in with the Church and the priest will then accept your Son. But don’t just join because to get the priest to baptise your family. You join the community of the Church because you believe and want to worship God and accept the Catholic Teachings for your family.

The Church of England can’t refuse baptisms and the Priest at your church isn’t refusing totally. Just wants you to join the whole package not just baptism.

Firstly,
I am Anglican and therefore not Catholic but I respect that to have a child baptized into the Catholic Church - you have to faithfully join the community of that Church because otherwise what is the point of having the child baptized?

You keep saying Christening and not Baptism. I don’t understand the difference but everyone here tells you that it isn’t Christening but a Baptism. As far as I understand a

All Baptism actuallydoes simply enters the child to the Lords Family. ? ‘We Welcome you into the Lords’ Family… If you don’t want to be a part of the Lords Family - ie Church. Then why bother?

To the Church teachings that does not guarantee your child to Heaven, just more likely from what I read on here. Anyone can die unbaptized and God will grant them entry to Heaven based on them acknowledging God. Is it Heaven you want or a perhaps something Catholic because if its Heaven you want then you can relax because your child will go to Heaven not based on just Baptism but based on the Child/Adult Believing in God.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Well the woman wanted to baptize her kids Catholic. Had posters here just told her about RCIA and not so much about her sins -maybe the Holy Spirit would have been able to work things out for them. Maybe they would have gotten married and became a happy Catholic family.

Hopefully they don’t walk away from this believing that the Church hates them because of their sins… Which were all guilty of.

The OP said her boyfriend is not interested in getting married. We can “maybe” all we want but it doesn’t change the situation at present. I think everyone here was as charitable as possible given that the woman had already heard from the priest. There’s been a lot of assuming the worst about the priest, too. We weren’t there and we don’t know what he said to her, or how he said it. We are going by her report only so let’s give the priest the benefit of the doubt.

Some posters come here specifically to stir up trouble. I’m not saying this poster is one of those, but it’s happened before.

 

[Rainaldo]

The OP said her boyfriend is not interested in getting married. We can “maybe” all we want but it doesn’t change the situation at present. I think everyone here was as charitable as possible given that the woman had already heard from the priest. There’s been a lot of assuming the worst about the priest, too. We weren’t there and we don’t know what he said to her, or how he said it. We are going by her report only so let’s give the priest the benefit of the doubt.

Some posters come here specifically to stir up trouble. I’m not saying this poster is one of those, but it’s happened before.

Yes, and often these “Father Was So Mean” posts leave out precisely the missing piece of information that makes all the difference. Remember the early versions of the Barbara Johnson/Marcel Guarnizo story?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Yes, and often these “Father Was So Mean” posts leave out precisely the missing piece of information that makes all the difference. Remember the early versions of the Barbara Johnson/Marcel Guarnizo story?

Same with George Zimmerman/Trayvon Williams right now.

 

[TEPO]

Actually, I did attempt to do just that when I explained the importance of joining in the Lords Family, The Church. Naturally I couldn’t expand because I don’t know what the Catholic Church precisely teaches. But the importance of becoming rather than just the label was my actual aim even if it was overlooked and I am sorry but I am hopeless at bringing in quotes to the post:blush: to back up what I mean so you’ll have to search them yourself and try re reading the one post where I say about joining the community.

Everything youve stated is considered true according to Catholic teaching, and according to what I would consider common courtesy. I’m sure that you were included In the “one maybe two” posters that were the exception that i claimed in this thread… But what I find interesting is the fact that you’re not Catholic -yet your focus had nothing to do with bringing up the OP’s faults. Maybe the reason you didn’t consider her faults an issue was because you realized that people of different walks of life or even religions don’t understand what other religions teach or respect. therefore you saw no reason to approach things that way. Whether this is the case or not, it still may prove to be a good lesson for all.

 

[TEPO]

The OP said her boyfriend is not interested in getting married. We can “maybe” all we want but it doesn’t change the situation at present. I think everyone here was as charitable as possible given that the woman had already heard from the priest. There’s been a lot of assuming the worst about the priest, too. We weren’t there and we don’t know what he said to her, or how he said it. We are going by her report only so let’s give the priest the benefit of the doubt.

Some posters come here specifically to stir up trouble. I’m not saying this poster is one of those, but it’s happened before.

I say forget the Priest, it’s all about her. The Priest is already protected by the Church… The OP isn’t.

 

[Julia_Mae]

That is very true but he won’t, he’s not interested in marriage… sees it as just a piece of paper that isn’t going to keep a couple together if they don’t want to be!

Then why does he want his son baptized? What do you want? What do you want for your children? What do you want if this guy strokes out tomorrow and drops dead? That “piece of paper” would come in mighty handy. Also, that’s not what marriage is and since Catholic-boy hasn’t got a clue, even more reason the two of you should go through RCIA together.

Meanwhile, go apartment hunting. Take your children and make a life for yourselves and when he grows up, maybe he’ll call, is my advice. Maybe by then you’ll find a whole grown-up man. There are no princes and this guy isn’t even a semi-close approximation.

BTW, some priests are really pills, IMO. I had a horribly rude one the first time I called about becoming Catholic. I went to a different parish.

 

[TEPO]

No need tp appologize to me, I would rather you go back and read my first post in context of the OP’s first post. RCIA was mention at the very onset of this conversation. Also, those assumptions you accuse others of making are taken from the words of the OP about the situation, so my friend they are not assumptions, they are facts put forth by the OP.

I would hope that people could go back and learn what the Church truly teaches, then practice it, not come here or out in the world and profess what they believe to be truth. We preach the Gospel of Jesus, not of us.

I went back and yes, you did say it. I was wrong for claiming you didn’t.

Things do look slightly different now without the emotional overtones that I may have been under initially. You weren’t that bad. .

 

[JillianRose]

I truly pray that you are not offended by my comments and questions. I have to ask you, why is it so important that your son should be baptized but nothing else in your life is of importance where God is concerned? You are living in a relationship which is against Jesus’ teachings, you yourself are not willing to commit to Christ in His Church, and your partner is evidently not fully committed to his own faith since you say that he won’t choose to marry.

We get people every week call the rectory to have their kids baptized who never go to Mass, have nothing to do with anything Catholic except their parents are Catholic, nor do they commit to anything for themselves for the future. What’s the point of baptizing these little ones? This is the predicament of the pastor of the parish, what is in the best interest of the child, is there reasonable assurance that this child will be brought up in the faith? I’ve have seen my pastor refuse and accept kids for baptism and I have no right or reason to contradict his decisions.

This is my advice for you, go to your parish priest and commit to the faith fully, join RCIA and come into the Church, why would you want something for your kids that you do not want yourself? Before, during and after that, talk to your partner about your relationship and how important living in Christ is to you. Living in sin is not living in Christ; the world tells us cohabitating is acceptable, God tells us it is sinful. I would suggest both of you can benefit from RCIA; especially if he has not received all of the Sacraments, confirmation and first communion and reconciliation.

Make an appointment with the priest and lay everything out and he will help you; but be prepared to commit. If you are not ready to commit, why should he be ready to commit?

In the words of Fr. Larry Richards, “I am willing to give God everything, until He asks for something I am not ready to give Him.” Makes sense, doesn’t it?

100% agree. You can not expect the Catholic Church or Catholic School do something for your child that you are not willing to do yourself. We have so many couples who join our church and leave once their kids are baptized. I applaud this Priest for seeing the bigger picture. These are tough times we are facing and the Catholic Church is not in need of more fair weather friends. Good for you Deacon!!! God Bless!!

 

[JillianRose]

Simply sending a child to a Catholic school does NOT suffice for the duties required to raise a child in the faith. There are a lot of obligations on the parents’ end. That kid is going to have an obligation to attend Mass every Sunday, receive the sacraments and learn how to live a good moral Catholic life.

Excellent!! Good point!! Don’t forget, once in Catholic School they go to church twice a week. Once in school and once with mommy and daddy!!

 

[TEPO]

We have so many couples who join our church and leave once their kids are baptized. I applaud this Priest for seeing the bigger picture. These are tough times we are facing and the Catholic Church is not in need of more fair weather friends. Good for you Deacon!!! God Bless!!

The Church doesn’t “need” anything -she already has it all. It’s these “fair weather friends” we need to be worried about.

 

[JillianRose]

The Church doesn’t “need” anything -she already has it all. It’s these “fair weather friends” we need to be worried about.

I did not say the Church needed anything. I don’t know what fight your tring to pick here?

 

[TEPO]

I did not say the Church needed anything.

I never said you did.

I don’t know what fight your tring to pick here?

No fights… I just want to make it clear that the role of the Church is to save souls by uniting them with Christ through the sacraments… I wasn’t quite sure that your post was in line with this train of thought.

It was when you said “These are tough times we are facing and the Catholic Church is not in need of more fair weather friends”, it almost sounded as if you felt that the Church needed to be protected from lay cafeteria Catholics.

But I’m not trying to pick a fight with you… I’m just trying to make sure you don’t think the Church could be harmed by lay Catholics who don’t commit to the Church… Since they are in effect separating themselves from the Church. So that doesn’t hurt the Church. Just them.

 

[JillianRose]

I never said you did.

No fights… I just want to make it clear that the role of the Church is to save souls by uniting them with Christ through the sacraments… I wasn’t quite sure that your post was in line with this train of thought.

It was when you said “These are tough times we are facing and the Catholic Church is not in need of more fair weather friends”, it almost sounded as if you felt that the Church needed to be protected from lay cafeteria Catholics.

But I’m not trying to pick a fight with you… I’m just trying to make sure you don’t think the Church could be harmed by lay Catholics who don’t commit to the Church… Since they are in effect separating themselves from the Church. So that doesn’t hurt the Church. Just them.

Ok. Thanks. I meant since this world is corrupt. The Catholic Church is always under attack by the devils seems. I am a proud Catholic Wife and Mother!!! I just see too much yuckies out there now that I have kids. I send them to Catholic School because I believe in a religious education. To reiterate what they learn at home. I see too many use the Catholic School as a private school and the stuff they bring into the school system is not always in line with our beliefs… That was my train of thought.

 

[TEPO]

Ok. Thanks. I meant since this world is corrupt. The Catholic Church is always under attack by the devils seems. I am a proud Catholic Wife and Mother!!! I just see too much yuckies out there now that I have kids. I send them to Catholic School because I believe in a religious education. To reiterate what they learn at home. I see too many use the Catholic School as a private school and the stuff they bring into the school system is not always in line with our beliefs… That was my train of thought.

I can totally relate to that -I’ve had issues with this same situation. It’s a great point!

 

[Julia_Mae]

I would like my children christened because I believe if you are not christened you won’t go to heaven. It’s my partner that wants them to be Catholics as its his family’s tradition! And our boy is supposed to be starting a catholic school in Sept.

I am very surprised at the amount of “perfect” people in this world and how amazin that they all came together in this very thread… obviously myself excluded because I have had children out of wedlock, let god strike me down dead right now if he’s that bothered! I doubt Jesus himself would turn away my child & be so rude & hurtful towards a person! … And didn’t Joseph bring up a child that wasn’t “biologically” his!

I didn’t see anyone claiming to be perfect or being rude to you at all. You came here. Your “partner” is not a practicing Catholic. He is living in mortal sin by his own elucidated choice and removed himself from communion with the Church. That’s just a fact. What’s the point of sending a child to a Catholic school where they are going to tell him that sins against chastity are grave and dangerous? Your son will betold you are committing mortal sin. You want him to be torn a part by that kind of thing, mom or the Church? Are you thinking that they will not teach religion to your child? They will.

You think you need baptism to get to heaven? You need to follow Jesus. You have no right to demand anything from the Church that is outside of the beliefs of the Church. You think it’s just advertising, that we don’t actually believe all the stuff, we just say so?

Those Laws are there for your benefit, to protect you and your children, to bring you to God to healing and reconciliation.

And stop being all self-righteous and judgmental of us. You have no idea what sins we may or may not have committed. Ever occur to you that you are not the only young woman to make this kind of foolish error and jeopardize herself and her kids? Ever think maybe some people here have BTDT?

 

[figs]

Then why does he want his son baptized? What do you want? What do you want for your children? What do you want if this guy strokes out tomorrow and drops dead? That “piece of paper” would come in mighty handy. Also, that’s not what marriage is and since Catholic-boy hasn’t got a clue, even more reason the two of you should go through RCIA together.

Meanwhile, go apartment hunting. Take your children and make a life for yourselves and when he grows up, maybe he’ll call, is my advice. Maybe by then you’ll find a whole grown-up man. There are no princes and this guy isn’t even a semi-close approximation.

BTW, some priests are really pills, IMO. I had a horribly rude one the first time I called about becoming Catholic. I went to a different parish.

Seems like good advise to me.
…maybe something she should have been told in the beginning, before coming to the internet?

Yep, I do agree with your last comment, some of them sure can seem that way and its very unfortunate.
Especially when they send mixed signals, i.e., willing to baptise one child and not the other in a relationship that is unstable, at best.
What is that one baptised child going to do? What kind of example will she have? Will she grow up believing like her father does?

Anyway, like I said, you’ve given good advise IMHO

 

[Lapey]

I went back and yes, you did say it. I was wrong for claiming you didn’t.

Things do look slightly different now without the emotional overtones that I may have been under initially. You weren’t that bad. .

Thanks for realizing I’m not that bad…LOL!!!

I am heading back to a conference, Steubenville on the Bayou in Houma, La. Not much time to get back into the thread. This has been a very active thread that has for the most part stayed on task.

Good day all and let’s all keep the OP and her family in our prayers with “extra” emphasis today…and please keep me and my 3000 little friends in your prayers too!!!