Our Son refused by the priest.

[LilyM]

It makes sense if you’re saying, “Go clean and pretty yourself up and then when you’re worthy your children can be baptized.”

Let me tell you of an actual event that happened in our parish here in Michigan. A single mother who was living with a guy came into the church wanting her three little ones baptized…all under the age of 5. The priest didn’t like the way she was living but felt that this wasn’t the children’s fault. He baptized them. Not even a month later the mother and all her children were killed in a massive car accident. The priest said, “I am SO glad I baptized those children.”

Jesus said, “Let the children come to me and forbid them not, for such is the kingdom of God.” How is it the child’s fault that the mother isn’t living according to the Church’s teaching? Heaven forbid if they die, then what? Should the child be denied a sacrament because the parent sins? Where is THAT in the Bible??? If I had to wait until my parents were worthy I would have never been baptized, ever. We are never good enough, we never live totally according to the church. I don’t agree with her living with a guy and it is not HIS choice, it’s HER choice…and she needs to rectify that but I still don’t see how the children should be denied given the grave risk if they were to die. Not everyone has a priest handy roadside in an accident and I do commend the mother for at least wanting her children baptized, so many don’t even give it a second thought. Did it ever occur to anyone that this might be the way the Lord is bringing her into the faith?

I’m all for baptizing any and all children, let God work in their lives, if not when they are growing up, maybe when they are grown and see that baptismal certificate.

Lorrie

It is in no way blaming the child to not baptize them.

If you wanted to be allowed to practice medicine but were known to have never studied a day of medicine in your life, your request would naturally be denied.

Not that you’re in any way being punished - since when is simply being told ‘no’ a punishment? You’re being denied because experience shows that people who haven’t studied medicine are rarely good doctors. And the fact that a handful of people in history probably managed without the study isn’t justification enough for the massive risk of allowing a whole bunch of woefully unprepared would-be doctors loose on the world.

Same goes with being Catholic. Merely being baptised Catholic puts all sorts of obligations on a person. Many only find this out later in life, also find out that they can do nothing about it, and feel incredibly bitter and resentful that they were ‘stuck’ with the lifelong obligations.

It’s totally a double edged sword - benefits but also responsibilities, as those children would have found out had they lived.

 

[adv1sor]

No, it makes me sound awful doesn’t it!

No. This does not make you sound awful, it just makes you sound honest, it just means that you are human.

Everyone of us posting here, myself included, are sinners.

It seems to me that maybe God is calling you to His Church.

Pray about this.

If you are serious about getting cleaned up and on the right track then you will have to make some changes in your life. You can’t live with your daughter’s father in the same home and not be married. This is asking a lot, but consider the impact on your life and that of your children, both in this world and the next.

If you decide to come home to God then make another appointment to speak to a priest. Bring your daughter’s father with you. And the three of you come up with a plan to move forward.

It’s a tangled mess you are in. Having two children from two different fathers and not being married to either. But it’s not too tangled for God. Of that you can be assured.

I’ll pray for you.

 

[TEPO]

Maybe the real reason was he somehow sensed that you would give up too easily and view the Sacrament as overrated anyway.

. Surely that would be the reason for denying… But it simply isn’t true. I’ve played this game too many times -and a baptism of desire is no less valid than one by water.

I can’t help it that I have to move to where my work is. I know we move too much, and it’s bad for the kids, but I’m working on changing it. The baby will just have to wait.

 

[maryjk]

No, it makes me sound awful doesn’t it! I don’t just flit from 1 relationship to the next having children, my son’s bio Dad left me 7mths pregnant in a 8 year relationship and then along came my prince when my son was 13 mths old

No, not awful.

But it might explain why the priest said what he did. If you look at it from his point of view, you have had relationships with at least two different men that resulted in having a child. You have not been married to either of these men. One of the children doesn’t know his father. And out of the three of you only one calls himself Catholic.

What here gives the priest any thought that your son, without a Catholic parent, will remain Catholic?

 

[figs]

It makes sense if you’re saying, “Go clean and pretty yourself up and then when you’re worthy your children can be baptized.”

Let me tell you of an actual event that happened in our parish here in Michigan. A single mother who was living with a guy came into the church wanting her three little ones baptized…all under the age of 5. The priest didn’t like the way she was living but felt that this wasn’t the children’s fault. He baptized them. Not even a month later the mother and all her children were killed in a massive car accident. The priest said, “I am SO glad I baptized those children.”

Jesus said, “Let the children come to me and forbid them not, for such is the kingdom of God.” How is it the child’s fault that the mother isn’t living according to the Church’s teaching? Heaven forbid if they die, then what? Should the child be denied a sacrament because the parent sins? Where is THAT in the Bible??? If I had to wait until my parents were worthy I would have never been baptized, ever. We are never good enough, we never live totally according to the church. I don’t agree with her living with a guy and it is not HIS choice, it’s HER choice…and she needs to rectify that but I still don’t see how the children should be denied given the grave risk if they were to die. Not everyone has a priest handy roadside in an accident and I do commend the mother for at least wanting her children baptized, so many don’t even give it a second thought. Did it ever occur to anyone that this might be the way the Lord is bringing her into the faith?

I’m all for baptizing any and all children, let God work in their lives, if not when they are growing up, maybe when they are grown and see that baptismal certificate.

Lorrie

I have been thinking pretty much the same way. I’m another one that would have NEVER been baptised if it depended on my parents being worthy!

I don’t see the sense in this priests decision.
They are both her children and only one qualifies? Where is the logic in that? The very same adults are involved, the very same life for both children.

Might be the priests call but it just seems like a bunch of hooey to me, along with very uncharitable remarks to the mother, if that is what was said in their exchange.

 

[maryjk]

I have been thinking pretty much the same way. I’m another one that would have NEVER been baptised if it depended on my parents being worthy!

It has nothing to do with being worthy.

I don’t see the sense in this priests decision.
They are both her children and only one qualifies? Where is the logic in that? The very same adults are involved, the very same life for both children.

She isn’t Catholic, nor married to either child’s father. The father of the second child is Catholic. But the father of the first child, isn’t. Which means that the parents of the first child aren’t Catholic. It would be the same as scooping up a child off of the street and baptizing him.

Might be the priests call but it just seems like a bunch of hooey to me, along with very uncharitable remarks to the mother, if that is what was said in their exchange.

Although hurtful. What the priest said was true. The mother wasn’t too concerned about having multiple babies with different daddies. Nor was she concerned about being married to either one of them.

Keep in mind, she is not Catholic. Working toward that, would go a long way in convincing the priest she was serious about the Catholic Faith.

 

[figs]

Well, lets just say then, we don’t agree. I still think it is all hooey. Both children should be treated the same. Either they are both baptised or not.

As for the priest, perhaps a bit of guidence instead of her coming to the internet for advise??!!

I don’t care if she is the harlot of the county, the priest could have phrased that a whole lot differently then making the assumptions on weather or not the mother “cares”, that’s just plain bad form, period

 

[englishredrose]

Can I ask

“What do you actually want from the Baptism”?

 

[JRKH]

Can I ask

“What do you actually want from the Baptism”?

Excellent Question. To sort of expand on it a bit…“After Baptism - then what?”

Peace
James

 

[StressedMummy82]

I would like my children christened because I believe if you are not christened you won’t go to heaven. It’s my partner that wants them to be Catholics as its his family’s tradition! And our boy is supposed to be starting a catholic school in Sept.

I am very surprised at the amount of “perfect” people in this world and how amazin that they all came together in this very thread… obviously myself excluded because I have had children out of wedlock, let god strike me down dead right now if he’s that bothered! I doubt Jesus himself would turn away my child & be so rude & hurtful towards a person! … And didn’t Joseph bring up a child that wasn’t “biologically” his!

 

[agnes_therese]

We understand that you’re upset. But just because posters have presented possible reasoning for the priest’s decision doesn’t mean anyone is claiming to be perfect.

I would like my children christened because I believe if you are not christened you won’t go to heaven. It’s my partner that wants them to be Catholics as its his family’s tradition! And our boy is supposed to be starting a catholic school in Sept.

I am very surprised at the amount of “perfect” people in this world and how amazin that they all came together in this very thread… obviously myself excluded because I have had children out of wedlock, let god strike me down dead right now if he’s that bothered! I doubt Jesus himself would turn away my child & be so rude & hurtful towards a person! … And didn’t Joseph bring up a child that wasn’t “biologically” his!

 

[JRKH]

Well, lets just say then, we don’t agree. I still think it is all hooey. Both children should be treated the same. Either they are both baptized or not.

In this matter - where there seems to be some difference of opinion - we need to consider that the children are below the age of consent - which of course is true for All little ones baptized into the Church…It is a VERY important issue here. Baptism requires promises that the children cannot make.

The Church provides for this by requiring the consent and commitment of responsible adults. The parent(s) who bring the child for baptism and the Godparents who answer for the child commit by their participation (this is a promise to God) to doing all they can to see that the child is raised up in accordance with the promises that the Godparents (and parents) make on their behalf.

Consider the promises these people are making on behalf of these children
V. Do you reject Satan?
R. I do.
V. And all his works?
R. I do.
V. And all his empty promises?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
R. I do.

V. Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
R. I do.

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
R. I do.
At each point the parent and the Godparents are saying “I Do” (I agree, I renounce, I accept) these promises…

How can these people stand before God and make such affirmations, such promises such on behalf of these children when they are obviously not holding to them themselves…And I don’t mean in a “I’m weak but I’m trying” kind of way, but in an open and unapologetic way.

As much as I fear for little ones in this kind of situation, as much as I don’t like that it must be like this, the unfortunate truth is that, unless the parents are willing to undertake and live themselves (to the best of their ability) the promises they are making on behalf of the children, the Church has little choice but to have the children wait until they can seek baptism on their own.

As for the priest, perhaps a bit of guidance instead of her coming to the internet for advise??!!

I don’t care if she is the harlot of the county, the priest could have phrased that a whole lot differently then making the assumptions on weather or not the mother “cares”, that’s just plain bad form, period

In this I agree - but I suggest that withhold judging the priest too harshly…We only have one side of the story and only the briefest of summaries at that.

Peace
James

 

[The_Idiot]

Stressedmommy

You have to accept that the priest must consider as to whether there is a chance , no matter how small that the child will be brought up as a Catholic and he is concerned about your son - his natural father is not with you , but unless this child is adopted by your present partner , his natural father , if he gets to hear of this baptism , can say it is against his wishes as he does have some (name removed by moderator)ut LEGALLY in the upbringing of his son.

The fact that you do not know at present of his whereabouts doesn’t matter, – the boy’s father has legal rights.

Baptism in the eyes of the Church is not a stage in the upbringing of a child , a rite of progress if you like . It is a Sacrament - the bringing of the child into the Church - his entry into Christianity .

This is where protestant beliefs and catholic beliefs diverge .

 

[englishredrose]

Firstly,
I am Anglican and therefore not Catholic but I respect that to have a child baptized into the Catholic Church - you have to faithfully join the community of that Church because otherwise what is the point of having the child baptized?

You keep saying Christening and not Baptism. I don’t understand the difference but everyone here tells you that it isn’t Christening but a Baptism. As far as I understand a

All Baptism actuallydoes simply enters the child to the Lords Family. ? ‘We Welcome you into the Lords’ Family… If you don’t want to be a part of the Lords Family - ie Church. Then why bother?

To the Church teachings that does not guarantee your child to Heaven, just more likely from what I read on here. Anyone can die unbaptized and God will grant them entry to Heaven based on them acknowledging God. Is it Heaven you want or a perhaps something Catholic because if its Heaven you want then you can relax because your child will go to Heaven not based on just Baptism but based on the Child/Adult Believing in God.

 

[JRKH]

I would like my children christened because I believe if you are not christened you won’t go to heaven. It’s my partner that wants them to be Catholics as its his family’s tradition! And our boy is supposed to be starting a catholic school in Sept.

I am not sure how things are approached in your protestant tradition, but if you look at my post above, you will see that there is much more to the Catholic rite of Baptism than just pouring water and saying “I baptize thee in the name of the Father and of teh Son and of the Holy Spirit…” There are promises involved on the part of the parents and Godparents. The Church takes these things seriously as well she should.

I am very surprised at the amount of “perfect” people in this world and how amazing that they all came together in this very thread… obviously myself excluded because I have had children out of wedlock, let god strike me down dead right now if he’s that bothered! I doubt Jesus himself would turn away my child & be so rude & hurtful towards a person! … And didn’t Joseph bring up a child that wasn’t “biologically” his!

I am very sorry that you feel that we are somehow presenting ourselves as somehow “holier than thou”. If you truly knew us I suspect that you would realize that we we speak, not from perfection but from sinful experience…I know this is the case with myself…I spent many many years living in terrible sins of one type or another. Yet - it is this very experience that forces me to speak as honestly and as charitably as possible to you - not out of judgement but out of love.

The other aspect of this is that, as Catholics, we are constrained in certain ways. We cannot - on a public forum - give answers that would be contrary to Church teaching…

You have been most gracious and patient and I am sure you feel a bit ganged up on. For that I am sorry - sometimes it can’t be helped. I do hope that you will accept out answers as not from “perfect” people, but rather from “experienced” people. To use the AA phrase, we are not people who were never alcoholics - we are “Recovering Alcoholics” who hope to be of help and service to you as you move along your journey.

Peace
James

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I would like my children christened because I believe if you are not christened you won’t go to heaven. It’s my partner that wants them to be Catholics as its his family’s tradition! And our boy is supposed to be starting a catholic school in Sept.

I am very surprised at the amount of “perfect” people in this world and how amazin that they all came together in this very thread… obviously myself excluded because I have had children out of wedlock, let god strike me down dead right now if he’s that bothered! I doubt Jesus himself would turn away my child & be so rude & hurtful towards a person! … And didn’t Joseph bring up a child that wasn’t “biologically” his!

Nobody is judging you about having a child out of wedlock. Nobody’s business. However, you behave like you have a right to have your son baptised. You don’t. You are not Catholic. Your ‘partner’ is not his father and he is happy to live in mortal sin. That’s not exactly Catholic either, right? My wild guess is that the children will not be brought up in the faith. So this leads me to suggest that your partner is the problem here, not you. You don’t know what our faith teaches and why but he should know better.

 

[figs]

Peace
James

Thanks for your calm, well reasoned response, James. I needed that, I think. When children are involved it makes things difficult.

My issue i; two children, different treament regarding baptism.
It is the same two adults standing up for both of the children.
But the priest feels the current situation is not good for the one but is alright for the other.
If the priest had said no to them both, the adults need to be married, show stability, take steps to become Catholic, etc., then I would have understood and not had a second thought, but to seperate the two under the exact same conditions just doesn’t set right with me.

 

[maryjk]

Thanks for your calm, well reasoned response, James. I needed that, I think. When children are involved it makes things difficult.

My issue i; two children, different treament regarding baptism.
It is the same two adults standing up for both of the children.
But the priest feels the current situation is not good for the one but is alright for the other.
If the priest had said no to them both, the adults need to be married, show stability, take steps to become Catholic, etc., then I would have understood and not had a second thought, but to seperate the two under the exact same conditions just doesn’t set right with me.

But they don’t have the same two people standing up for them. One has her mom and Dad. The other has his mom and his mom’s lover.

I get it. I speak like James does, from a background of terrible sin.

But the priest has to look at the current situation. And the current situation doesn’t indicate that the boy, or the girl for that matter, will be raised in the faith.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Thanks for your calm, well reasoned response, James. I needed that, I think. When children are involved it makes things difficult.

My issue i; two children, different treament regarding baptism.
It is the same two adults standing up for both of the children.
But the priest feels the current situation is not good for the one but is alright for the other.
If the priest had said no to them both, the adults need to be married, show stability, take steps to become Catholic, etc., then I would have understood and not had a second thought, but to seperate the two under the exact same conditions just doesn’t set right with me.

But, they aren’t the exact same conditions. The living conditions for the children are the same now, but the fathers are not the same or the same faith. I do agree, though, that it doesn’t seem likely that either child is a good candidate for Baptism right now as there doesn’t appear to be a well-founded hope that they will be raised in the Faith. There is always hope for the future, though.

 

[figs]

But they don’t have the same two people standing up for them. One has her mom and Dad. The other has his mom and his mom’s lover.

I get it. I speak like James does, from a background of terrible sin.

But the priest has to look at the current situation. And the current situation doesn’t indicate that the boy, or the girl for that matter, will be raised in the faith.

I completely agree here! … and this is what makes me say don’t seperate them and say ok for the one when the situation doesn’t offer more promise for one then the other.
I understand the about the different fathers, I’m just saying that I think the “call” here, by the priest, could have been thought out a lot better.