Our willingness to "cooperate" with grace is only by grace. Thus, we are not "synergists."

[fhansen]

Continuation

**You said Fhansen:
Sorry, the RCC teaches specifically that efficacious grace, of any kind, can be rejected.
**

I’m sorry I don’t want you contradict you above statement, but the Catholic Church teachings Predestination of the elect which is a DE FIDE Dogma and the Catholic teaching on God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance which is and INFALLIBLE teachings of the Trent totally contradicts your above statement.

THREE THEOLOGICAL FACT ACCORDING TO THE ABOVE TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

1. Without God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance everyone would be end up in hell. – INFALLIBLE teachings of the Trent.
2. With God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance everyone end up in heaven. – DE FIDE Dogma of the Catholic Church.
3. If even one elect would/could reject God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance would end up in hell and God would lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma of the Catholic Church.

According to the above teachings of the Catholic Church, you Fhansen need to reformulate your statement as follows, of course whichever version you like to choose or add to it:

FIRST VERSION
The RCC teaches specially, no one rejects salvation-related graces.

SECOND VERSION
Same teachings with other words, salvation-related graces are irresistible.

THIRD VERSION
If even one elect in all Christian history would/could reject salvation-related graces would end up in hell and God would lose His omniscience.

Well, LR, you can keep spewing falsehoods about Roman Catholic teachings but, after all you’ve been shown it can’t possibly be due to your ignorance. But here’s more enlightenment anyway, the first from Ott with, the second from Trent:
"The human will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not irresistible." (De Fide)

Trent Canon 4, again:
"If anyone says that man’s free will moved and aroused by God, by assenting to God’s call and action, in no way cooperates toward disposing and preparing itself to obtain the grace of justification, that it cannot refuse its assent if it wishes, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive, let him be anathema."

Ott adds:
Innocent X condemned as heretical the following proposition of Cornelius Jansen:
"In the condition of fallen nature interior grace is never resisted"

 

[LatinRight]

Well, LR, you can keep spewing falsehoods about Roman Catholic teachings but, after all you’ve been shown it can’t possibly be due to your ignorance. But here’s more enlightenment anyway, the first from Ott with, the second from Trent:
"The human will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not irresistible." (De Fide)

Trent Canon 4, again:
"If anyone says that man’s free will moved and aroused by God, by assenting to God’s call and action, in no way cooperates toward disposing and preparing itself to obtain the grace of justification, that it cannot refuse its assent if it wishes, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive, let him be anathema."

Ott adds:
Innocent X condemned as heretical the following proposition of Cornelius Jansen:
"In the condition of fallen nature interior grace is never resisted"

**God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.
**

I agree: The human will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, but an elect never end up in hell by resist it.

If would resist it would end up in hell and God would lose His omniscience. (De Fide.)

Trent Canon 4 speaking about Progressive Justification

I always maintained we actively cooperate with the grace of God in our Progressive Justification.

As elect we can refuse it but we NEVER REFUSE IT, IF WE WOULD REFUSE IT we would end up in hell and God would lose His omniscience. (De Fide.)

**COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8 speaking about Initial Justification. **

Our initial justification in our baptism is an instant event, we don’t even realize it and in this work for three reasons we cannot even co-operated with the grace of God.

First reason: In our fallen state, we are spiritually dead and we accept nothing from the Spirit of God. – This is our spiritual resurrection from spiritual death.

Second reason: Our initial justification and born again in our baptism is an instant event.

Third reason: The above work of God takes us to the state of grace.
Until we are in the state of grace we cannot make supernatural decisions or do supernatural merit.

John 15:5; “… for without Me you can do nothing.”

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church (Denzinger 1576, 1582).

**FR. WILLIAM MOST TEACHES THE SAME ABOVE THEOLOGICAL FACTS

Tuesday, April 2, 2013 Fr. William Most
What does the Catholic Church teach on Predestination? **

Predestination is gratuitous: For even before God considers human merits, He predestines, and because the sole and total cause of predestination is the goodness and love of the Father which moves spontaneously WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

God’s grace appears to all men (e.g.Tit. 2:11), and man’s initial “response” is the omission of resistance, which he identifies as an “ontological zero,”
MEANING man does NOTHING, to enter a state of justification. End quote.

Meaning man does nothing and could do nothing, to enter the state of (initial) justification. – Because spiritually dead at the beginning and the end initially justified, born again and in the state of grace, the whole process is an instant event.

God simply Initially Justifies an un-regenerated/carnal man without his consent or cooperation, because he is unable to give his consent or to cooperate at his Initial Justification.

Not our faith, not our consent, not our cooperation with the grace of God involved in our Initial Justification!!! – It is God’s free and IRREVOCABLE GIFT and SOLELY the works of God.

**COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8 **
. . . None of those things which precede justification - whether faith or works - merit the grace itself of justification.

Did you Fhensen cooperate with the grace of God at your Initial Justification?

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[fhansen]

**God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.
**

I agree: The human will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, but an elect never end up in hell by resist it.

If would resist it would end up in hell and God would lose His omniscience. (De Fide.)

Trent Canon 4 speaking about Progressive Justification

I always maintained we actively cooperate with the grace of God in our Progressive Justification.

As elect we can refuse it but we NEVER REFUSE IT, IF WE WOULD REFUSE IT we would end up in hell and God would lose His omniscience. (De Fide.)

**COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8 speaking about Initial Justification. **

Our initial justification in our baptism is an instant event, we don’t even realize it and in this work for three reasons we cannot even co-operated with the grace of God.

First reason: In our fallen state, we are spiritually dead and we accept nothing from the Spirit of God. – This is our spiritual resurrection from spiritual death.

Second reason: Our initial justification and born again in our baptism is an instant event.

Third reason: The above work of God takes us to the state of grace.
Until we are in the state of grace we cannot make supernatural decisions or do supernatural merit.

John 15:5; “… for without Me you can do nothing.”

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church (Denzinger 1576, 1582).

**FR. WILLIAM MOST TEACHES THE SAME ABOVE THEOLOGICAL FACTS

Tuesday, April 2, 2013 Fr. William Most
What does the Catholic Church teach on Predestination? **

Predestination is gratuitous: For even before God considers human merits, He predestines, and because the sole and total cause of predestination is the goodness and love of the Father which moves spontaneously WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

God’s grace appears to all men (e.g.Tit. 2:11), and man’s initial “response” is the omission of resistance, which he identifies as an “ontological zero,”
MEANING man does NOTHING, to enter a state of justification. End quote.

Meaning man does nothing and could do nothing, to enter the state of (initial) justification. – Because spiritually dead at the beginning and the end initially justified, born again and in the state of grace, the whole process is an instant event.

God simply Initially Justifies an un-regenerated/carnal man without his consent or cooperation, because he is unable to give his consent or to cooperate at his Initial Justification.

Not our faith, not our consent, not our cooperation with the grace of God involved in our Initial Justification!!! – It is God’s free and IRREVOCABLE GIFT and SOLELY the works of God.

**COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8 **
. . . None of those things which precede justification - whether faith or works - merit the grace itself of justification.

Did you Fhensen cooperate with the grace of God at your Initial Justification?

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

Wrong. The Church, again, teaches that all grace is resistible, including the gift of faith which must be present in the candidate for Baptism in order for the sacrament to be efficacious. Anyone can be baptized; not everyone baptized is among the elect; not everyone baptized is saved.

And none of this affects Gods omniscience regarding the elect. He can certainly foreknow who will resist and who will not. Your obstinacy in insisting on your weird and novel Calvinist theology is borderline boorish.

 

[LatinRight]

Wrong. The Church, again, teaches that all grace is resistible, including the gift of faith which must be present in the candidate for Baptism in order for the sacrament to be efficacious. Anyone can be baptized; not everyone baptized is among the elect; not everyone baptized is saved.

And none of this affects Gods omniscience regarding the elect. He can certainly foreknow who will resist and who will not. Your obstinacy in insisting on your weird and novel Calvinist theology is borderline boorish.

**God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

The Catholic Church affirms predestination as a *DE FIDE *Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

THE CATHOLIC DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect.**

Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has

been IRREVOCABLY FIXED FROM ALL ETERNITY. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it

were possible that a predestined individual should after all be CAST INTO HELL or that

one not predestined should in the end REACH HEAVEN, then God would have been

MISTAKEN in his foreknowledge of future events; He would NO LONGER be omniscient.

God’s unerring foreknowledge and foreordaining is designated in the Bible by the beautiful

figure of the “Book of Life” (liber vitæ, to biblion tes zoes). This book of life is a list which

contains the names of ALL THE ELECT and admits NEITHER ADDITIONS NO ERASURES.

(2) The second quality of predestination, the DEFINITENESS of the number of the elect,

follows NATURALLY from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding the

predestined is UNCHANGEABLE, then the number of the predestined must likewise be

UNCHANGEABLE and DEFINITE, subject NEITHER to ADDITIONS nor to

CANCELLATIONS. Anything indefinite in the number would eo ipso imply a lack of

certitude in God’s knowledge and would DESTROY His omniscience. End quote.

**THE THEORY OF PREDESTINATION prævisa merita

THIS THEORY, CHAMPIONED BY all Thomists and a few Molinists (as Bellarmine, Francisco Suárez, Francis de Lugo):**

Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. End quote.

**Tuesday, April 2, 2013 Fr. William Most
What does the Catholic Church teach on Predestination? **

Predestination is gratuitous: For even before God considers human merits, He predestines, and because the sole and total cause of predestination is the goodness and love of the Father which moves spontaneously WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

God’s grace appears to all men (e.g.Tit. 2:11), and man’s initial “response” is the omission of resistance, which he identifies as an “ontological zero,”
MEANING man does NOTHING, to enter a state of justification. End quote.

THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE

Quote: St. Thomas Aquinas, In his Summa Theologiae he wrote:

[P]erseverance is called he abiding in good TO the end of life.

And in order to have this perseverance man . . . needs the divine assistance guiding him and guarding him against the attacks of the passions . . . that he may be kept from evil TILL the end of his life (ST IIa:109:10)

This same teaching was infallibly taught by the Council of Trent after the Protestant Reformation.

A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of “That Great and Special Gift of Final Perseverance,” and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of "the gift of perseverance of which it is written:

‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, 24:13],’ Which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him who stands to stand [Rom. 14:4]."

Aquinas said it always saves a person because of the kind of grace it is; The gift of final perseverance always works.

Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives these people: “the gift of final perseverance.”

The Church formally teaches that there is a gift of final perseverance.

Aquinas (and even Molina) said this grace always ensures that a person will persevere.

Aquinas said, “Predestination [to final salvation] most certainly and infallibly takes effect.”

In order to have this perseverance man…needs the divine assistance guiding and guarding him against the attacks of the passions…” End quote

According to the above teachings; without God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance no one could end up in heaven.

Without The Gift of Final Perseverance, every Initially Justified would end up in hell.

My posts based on the above beautiful teachings of the Catholic Church, may looks like Calvinism for some ones, but they are not, they are the most wonderful teachings of our Catholic Church.

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[fhansen]

[My posts based on the above beautiful teachings of the Catholic Church, may looks like Calvinism for some ones, but they are not, they are the most wonderful teachings of our Catholic Church.

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

Catholicism 101
*The elect are, well, the elect, those whose names are written in the Book of Life.
*God can’t help but know who they are; He exists in eternity, not time.
*All grace is resistible; man’s free will is free indeed from God’s absolute overriding control. That’s what got us into trouble to begin with, and God didn’t suddenly decide to change His mind about this gift of freedom now. He wants us to be free; He wants us to make the right choice, that Adam failed to make, for ourselves, not without His help. Life over death, good over evil.
*As with the Book of Life, God, alone, knows who will have the gift of final perseverance and who will not.

fhansenism101:
*The teaching you espouse is not beautiful, and not Catholic. It renders God a dirty little wicked tyrant god, with no respect for human freedom. That god would be the author of all evil, that god predetermines, without regard to their free choices and acts, that some people will spend eternity in torment. That god could’ve at least forgone all the evil and pain and suffering that resulted from man’s exile from Eden, since there would’ve been no purpose for the exile once human free will is removed from the justification/salvation determination, and simply stocked heaven with the elect and hell with the reprobate from the beginning.
[/quote]

 

[LatinRight]

Catholicism 101
*The elect are, well, the elect, those whose names are written in the Book of Life.
*God can’t help but know who they are; He exists in eternity, not time.
*All grace is resistible; man’s free will is free indeed from God’s absolute overriding control. That’s what got us into trouble to begin with, and God didn’t suddenly decide to change His mind about this gift of freedom now. He wants us to be free; He wants us to make the right choice, that Adam failed to make, for ourselves, not without His help. Life over death, good over evil.
*As with the Book of Life, God, alone, knows who will have the gift of final perseverance and who will not.

fhansenism101:
*The teaching you espouse is not beautiful, and not Catholic. It renders God a dirty little wicked tyrant god, with no respect for human freedom. That god would be the author of all evil, that god predetermines, without regard to their free choices and acts, that some people will spend eternity in torment. That god could’ve at least forgone all the evil and pain and suffering that resulted from man’s exile from Eden, since there would’ve been no purpose for the exile once human free will is removed from the justification/salvation determination, and simply stocked heaven with the elect and hell with the reprobate from the beginning.

**God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

In general I agree with the spirit of your above post.**

**THE QUESTION IS:
Do we have a free will from the fall to freely determine our Justification/Salvation?

THE ANSWER OF THE SCRIPTURE

John 6:44-45 (NIV)**
44. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

John 15:5; “… for without Me you can do nothing.”

John 15:16; “You did not chose Me, but I chose you …”

Ez.36:25-27;
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; **I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. **

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and CAUSE YOU (our cooperation is produced by God’s operation) TO FOLLOW MY DECREES and be careful to keep my laws. – In the brackets added.

Everything we have is a gift of God. He made everything, and we are nothing without Him.

Our cooperation is produced by God’s operation.

Continue

 

[LatinRight]

Continuation

**THE QUESTION IS:
Do we have a free will from the fall to freely determine our Justification/Salvation?

THE ANSWER OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH**

THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE

Quote: St. Thomas Aquinas, In his Summa Theologiae he wrote:

[P]erseverance is called he abiding in good TO the end of life.

And in order to have this perseverance man . . . needs the divine assistance guiding him and guarding him against the attacks of the passions . . . that he may be kept from evil TILL the end of his life (ST IIa:109:10)

This same teaching was infallibly taught by the Council of Trent after the Protestant Reformation.

A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of “That Great and Special Gift of Final Perseverance,” and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of "the gift of perseverance of which it is written:

‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, 24:13],’ Which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him who stands to stand [Rom. 14:4]."

Aquinas said it always saves a person because of the kind of grace it is; The gift of final perseverance always works.

Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives these people: “The Gift of Final Perseverance.”

The Church formally teaches that there is a Gift of Final Perseverance.

Aquinas (and even Molina) said this grace always ensures that a person will persevere.

Aquinas said, “Predestination [to final salvation] most certainly and infallibly takes effect.”

In order to have this perseverance man…needs the divine assistance guiding and guarding him against the attacks of the passions…” End quote

THREE THEOLOGICAL FACT ACCORDING TO THE ABOVE TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

1. Without God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance everyone would be end up in hell. – INFALLIBLE teachings of the Trent.
2. With God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance everyone end up in heaven. – DE FIDE Dogma of the Catholic Church.
3. If even one elect would/could reject/resist God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance would end up in hell and God would lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma of the Catholic Church.

As you see above Fhansen, if you say: An elect can reject/resist all kinds of graces that means, an elect has the power to destroy God’s omniscience.

Of course NO ONE can reject/resist salvation-related graces, so God’s omniscience is safe.

If an Initially Justified elect would has a power to reject/resist salvation-related graces God would lost His omniscience about 2000 years ago.

So, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, God made sure no one rejects/resists His gifts of salvation-related graces.

Continue

 

[LatinRight]

Continuation

Tuesday, April 2, 2013 Fr. William Most
What does the Catholic Church teach on Predestination?

Predestination is gratuitous: For even before God considers human merits, He predestines, and because the sole and total cause of predestination is the goodness and love of the Father which moves spontaneously WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

God’s grace appears to all men (e.g.Tit. 2:11), and man’s initial “response” is the omission of resistance, which he identifies as an “ontological zero,”
MEANING man does NOTHING, to enter a state of justification. End quote.

**THE THEORY OF PREDESTINATION prævisa merita

THIS THEORY, CHAMPIONED BY all Thomists and a few Molinists (as Bellarmine, Francisco Suárez, Francis de Lugo):**

Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. End quote.

AS YOU SEE ABOVE FHANSEN
When God calls and draws an un-regenerated/carnal man into His service/salvation WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition. and without regard to any future supernatural merits, His calling is backed up with an ABSOLUTE DECREE and in consequence of this DECREE, God gives them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. – Furthermore this ABSOLUTE DECREE includes the INFALLIBLE entrance to heaven.

** Righteousness and Merit by James Akin**

Quote: Protestants who say, … Catholics believe we must do good works in order to become justified — a position which was explicitly condemned at Trent, which taught “nothing that precedes justification, whether faith or works, merits the grace of justification” (Decree on Justification 8).

Justification is the cause, not the consequence, of good works.

The Church teaches that we are made totally righteous — **we receive 100% pure righteousness — in justification. **

You don’t have to do a diddly-do-da thing after being justified by God in baptism in order to go to heaven.

There is no magic level of works one needs to achieve in order to go to heaven.

One is saved the moment one is initially justified.

Of course, a Calvinist can say (as a Thomistic Catholic would say) that both cooperations in the giving and the embracing of the eternal call are themselves produced (not just enabled) by God’s grace, and this is perfectly fine.

A Calvinist and a Catholic alike can say that our cooperation is produced by God’s operation. No problem at all. End quote.

What do you think Fhansen, who’s responsibility is the Initial Justification (recreation) of the HELPLESS human race and to give every Initially Justified the grace The Gift of Final Perseverance, which without every Initially Justified would positively end up in hell??? – DE FIDE Dogma + INFALLIBLE Teachings of the Trent!!!

Continue

 

[LatinRight]

Continuation

**
GOD’S PROMISE OF UNIVERSAL SALVATION

Rom.5:18;**
Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment come to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift come to all men, resulting in justification of life.

1 Cor.15:22;
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

The whole creation (Eph.1:10; Col.1:20) will be restored by recreation including every member of the entire human race.

Christ will rule aver the nations with the Saints/Body of Christ/Church.

Dan.7:13-14;
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven.
He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.

14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Dan.7:21-22;
21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them,

22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.

CCC 677 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.
God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.

Dan.7:27;
27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High.
His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.

Is.2:4;
He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.

The doctrine of universal salvation has become very popular in the modern Roman Catholic Church.

Excerpt from: Jesus Christ Salvation of All by Luis F. Ladaria SJ.

Archbishop Ladaria has been secretary, the second in command, of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith since 2008 until 02/07/2017 and from this date on Pope Francis appointed Ladaria SJ. to the position of the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Archbishop Ladaria SJ. teaching Universal Salvation since many years.

Quote: Jesus includes everyone and excludes no one, and all of us have received his fullness (cfr. John 1:16).
The universality of salvation and unity of Christ’s mediation mutually affirm each other [p. 144].

Yet by dying, he gave us life, that is the life of his resurrection.

Even those who do not know him are called to this divine vocation, that is, to the perfect son-ship in and through Christ.

Christians and non-Christians reach this goal by virtue of the gift of the Spirit that associates us with the unique paschal ministry of Christ even if it is through diverse paths known only to God [p. 148-149]. End quote.

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[fhansen]

**God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

In general I agree with the spirit of your above post.**

**THE QUESTION IS:
Do we have a free will from the fall to freely determine our Justification/Salvation?

THE ANSWER OF THE SCRIPTURE

John 6:44-45 (NIV)**
44. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

John 15:5; “… for without Me you can do nothing.”

John 15:16; “You did not chose Me, but I chose you …”

Ez.36:25-27;
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; **I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. **

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and CAUSE YOU (our cooperation is produced by God’s operation) TO FOLLOW MY DECREES and be careful to keep my laws. – In the brackets added.

Everything we have is a gift of God. He made everything, and we are nothing without Him.

Our cooperation is produced by God’s operation.

Continue

Yes but our cooperation is not guaranteed by God’s operation. We will not cooperate without His drawing us, but we can still* resist* His drawing us. We can refuse to come; we can resist sufficient grace. The will remains intact.

 

[LatinRight]

Yes but our cooperation is not guaranteed by God’s operation. We will not cooperate without His drawing us, but we can still* resist* His drawing us. We can refuse to come; we can resist sufficient grace. The will remains intact.

**God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

As you will see Fhansen bellow, our cooperation is 100 % GUARANTEED and when God drawing us we ALWAYS COOPERATE.

Ez.36:25-27; **
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; **I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. **

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and CAUSE YOU (our cooperation is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation) TO FOLLOW MY DECREES and be careful to keep my laws. – In the brackets added.

As God’s elect, if God would mess up our heart transplant, then we would not cooperate and God would instantly lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma.

THREE THEOLOGICAL FACT ACCORDING TO THE ABOVE TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

1. Without God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance everyone would be end up in hell. – INFALLIBLE teachings of the Trent.
2. With God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance everyone end up in heaven. – DE FIDE Dogma of the Catholic Church.
3. If even one elect would/could reject/resist God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance would end up in hell and God would lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma of the Catholic Church.

As you see above Fhansen, if you say: An elect can reject/resist all kinds of graces that means, an elect has the power to destroy God’s omniscience.

Of course NO ONE can reject/resist salvation-related graces, so God’s omniscience it safe.

If an Initially Justified elect would has a power to reject/resist salvation-related graces God would lost His omniscience about 2000 years ago.

So, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, God made sure no one rejects/resists His gifts of salvation-related graces.

THE DEPRAVITY OF A NATURAL/CARNAL MAN CAUSED BY THE FALL

Rom.8:6-8;
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 cor.2:14;
But the natural man does not receives the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Rom.3:10-18;

10 As it written.
“There is no one righteous, not even one;

11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.

12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”

13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The** poison of vipers** is on their lips.”

14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”

15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;

16 ruin and** misery** mark their ways,

17 and the way of peace they do not know.”

18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Do you think Fhansen their wills are intact? – The Scripture doesn’t think.

Relating to spiritual things, the depravity of their wills are 100 %.

As we see above, relating to natural morality the depravity of their wills are close to 100 %.

They are enmity against God and they can NEVER please God.

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[fhansen]

**God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

As you will see Fhansen bellow, our cooperation is 100 % GUARANTEED** and when God drawing us we ALWAYS COOPERATE.

Ez.36:25-27;
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; **I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. **

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and CAUSE YOU (our cooperation is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation) TO FOLLOW MY DECREES and be careful to keep my laws. – In the brackets added.

As God’s elect, if God would mess up our heart transplant, then we would not cooperate and God would instantly lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma.

THREE THEOLOGICAL FACT ACCORDING TO THE ABOVE TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

1. Without God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance everyone would be end up in hell. – INFALLIBLE teachings of the Trent.
2. With God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance everyone end up in heaven. – DE FIDE Dogma of the Catholic Church.
3. If even one elect would/could reject/resist God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance would end up in hell and God would lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma of the Catholic Church.

As you see above Fhansen, if you say: An elect can reject/resist all kinds of graces that means, an elect has the power to destroy God’s omniscience.

Of course NO ONE can reject/resist salvation-related graces, so God’s omniscience it safe.

If an Initially Justified elect would has a power to reject/resist salvation-related graces God would lost His omniscience about 2000 years ago.

So, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, God made sure no one rejects/resists His gifts of salvation-related graces.

THE DEPRAVITY OF A NATURAL/CARNAL MAN CAUSED BY THE FALL

Rom.8:6-8;
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 cor.2:14;
But the natural man does not receives the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Rom.3:10-18;

10 As it written.
“There is no one righteous, not even one;

11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.

12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”

13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The** poison of vipers** is on their lips.”

14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”

15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;

16 ruin and** misery** mark their ways,

17 and the way of peace they do not know.”

18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Do you think Fhansen their wills are intact? – The Scripture doesn’t think.

Relating to spiritual things, the depravity of their wills are 100 %.

As we see above, relating to natural morality the depravity of their wills are close to 100 %.

They are enmity against God and they can NEVER please God.

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

Ok, one more guy making his own religion.

 

[James248]

**God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

As you will see Fhansen bellow, our cooperation is 100 % GUARANTEED** and when God drawing us we ALWAYS COOPERATE.

Ez.36:25-27;
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; **I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. **

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and CAUSE YOU (our cooperation is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation) TO FOLLOW MY DECREES and be careful to keep my laws. – In the brackets added.

As God’s elect, if God would mess up our heart transplant, then we would not cooperate and God would instantly lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma.

THREE THEOLOGICAL FACT ACCORDING TO THE ABOVE TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

1. Without God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance everyone would be end up in hell. – INFALLIBLE teachings of the Trent.
2. With God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance everyone end up in heaven. – DE FIDE Dogma of the Catholic Church.
3. If even one elect would/could reject/resist God’s grace The Gift of Final Perseverance would end up in hell and God would lose His omniscience. – DE FIDE Dogma of the Catholic Church.

As you see above Fhansen, if you say: An elect can reject/resist all kinds of graces that means, an elect has the power to destroy God’s omniscience.

Of course NO ONE can reject/resist salvation-related graces, so God’s omniscience it safe.

If an Initially Justified elect would has a power to reject/resist salvation-related graces God would lost His omniscience about 2000 years ago.

So, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, God made sure no one rejects/resists His gifts of salvation-related graces.

THE DEPRAVITY OF A NATURAL/CARNAL MAN CAUSED BY THE FALL

Rom.8:6-8;
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 cor.2:14;
But the natural man does not receives the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Rom.3:10-18;

10 As it written.
“There is no one righteous, not even one;

11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.

12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”

13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The** poison of vipers** is on their lips.”

14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”

15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;

16 ruin and** misery** mark their ways,

17 and the way of peace they do not know.”

18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Do you think Fhansen their wills are intact? – The Scripture doesn’t think.

Relating to spiritual things, the depravity of their wills are 100 %.

As we see above, relating to natural morality the depravity of their wills are close to 100 %.

They are enmity against God and they can NEVER please God.

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

Check this link: catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/depravity-yes-total-depravity-no

 

[LatinRight]

Check this link: catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/depravity-yes-total-depravity-no

**God bless you James.

Thank you for your post.**

I read the link, in my view it is very good.

I never studied Calvinism, so I didn’t know much about it.

I believe the Catholic teachings is the best on Predestination and Salvation.

God bless you James.

LatinRight.

 

[Richca]

**God bless Richca and every readers of the CAF.

 

[LatinRight]

*Yes, this is how God’s prevenient grace and initiative works. God enlightens our minds and moves our wills to good. For the life of grace is supernatural, beyond our natural powers and capabilities, so in this sense, God’s initiative is a metaphysical necessity. However, being that we are not robots and the CCC says that God’s initiative demands man’s free response, after God’s initial movement enlightening our minds and moving our hearts to good, God ordinarily as Fr. Most says awaits as it were our free response to his grace, i.e., God sees if we will resist or not resist his initiative. Again, as the Council of Trent taught, man is not totally passive while receiving God’s inspiration “while God touches the heart of man by the illumination of the Holy Ghost, neither is man himself utterly without doing anything while he receives that inspiration, forasmuch as he is also able to reject it.” Here the Council of Trent is speaking of initial justification and it says that this grace which is an actual grace is not irresistible. This teaching I believe can be taken as a universal principle concerning God’s grace and man’s free cooperation such that ordinarily God’s graces are not irresistible. Now, the Council does not say anything about ordinarily but simply that God’s grace can be rejected and that we must freely assent to and cooperate with his grace. So I say ordinarily God’s graces are not irresistible because I agree with Fr. Most when he says that most theologians would agree that God can move a soul by an efficacious or irresistible grace without violating that person’s freedom. But, this Fr. Most calls God’s extraordinary providence or an extraordinary grace such like St Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus which was miraculous.

 

[LatinRight]

Continuation

GOD’S PREDESTINATION TO HEAVEN OR INTO THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

**The Catholic Church affirms predestination as a *DE FIDE *Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

THE CATHOLIC DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect.**

Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has

been IRREVOCABLY FIXED FROM ALL ETERNITY. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it

were possible that a predestined individual should after all be CAST INTO HELL or that

one not predestined should in the end REACH HEAVEN, then God would have been

MISTAKEN in his foreknowledge of future events; He would NO LONGER be omniscient.

God’s unerring foreknowledge and foreordaining is designated in the Bible by the beautiful

figure of the “Book of Life” (liber vitæ, to biblion tes zoes). This book of life is a list which

contains the names of ALL THE ELECT and admits NEITHER ADDITIONS NO ERASURES.

(2) The second quality of predestination, the DEFINITENESS of the number of the elect,

follows NATURALLY from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding the

predestined is UNCHANGEABLE, then the number of the predestined must likewise be

UNCHANGEABLE and DEFINITE, subject NEITHER to ADDITIONS nor to

CANCELLATIONS. Anything indefinite in the number would eo ipso imply a lack of

certitude in God’s knowledge and would DESTROY His omniscience.

**THE THEORY OF PREDESTINATION prævisa merita

THIS THEORY, CHAMPIONED BY all Thomists and a few Molinists (as Bellarmine, Francisco Suárez, Francis de Lugo):**

Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. End quote.

**FR. WILLIAM MOST TEACHES THE SAME ABOVE THEOLOGICAL FACTS
**
Tuesday, April 2, 2013 Fr. William Most
What does the Catholic Church teach on Predestination?

Predestination is gratuitous: For even before God considers human merits, He predestines, and because the sole and total cause of predestination is the goodness and love of the Father which moves spontaneously WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition.

MEANING man does NOTHING, to enter a state of justification. End quote.

SUMMARY OF THE ABOVE FACTS

When God calls and draws an Initially Justified/elect into His service/salvation WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition. and without regard to any future supernatural merits, His calling is backed up with an ABSOLUTE DECREE and in consequence of this DECREE, God gives them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. – Furthermore this ABSOLUTE DECREE includes the INFALLIBLE entrance to heaven.

NO ONE CAN RESIST INITIAL JUSTIFICATION FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS (Only some examples.)

First reason: In our fallen state, we are spiritually dead and we accept nothing from the Spirit of God. – This is our spiritual resurrection from spiritual death.

Second reason: Our initial justification and born again at our Initial Justification is an instant event.

Third reason: The above work of God takes us to the state of grace.
Until we are in the state of grace we cannot make supernatural decisions or do supernatural merit.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church (Denzinger 1576, 1582).

John 15:5; “… for without Me you can do nothing.”

**COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8 **
. . . None of those things which precede justification - whether faith or works - merit the grace itself of justification.

So, no such teaching in Catholic Theology that a God’s child/elect resists OR EVEN COULD RESISTS Initial Justification.

If a God’s child/elect would resist his Initial Justification, would end up in hell and God would instantly lose His omniscience, so we can be sure Initial Justification is IRRESISTIBLE.

Of course, how could any human resist an Instant event, Initial Justification is over before the brain could act on it.

Both Initial Justification and Progressive Justification are very important:

During our Progressive Justification heaven is NEVER at stake, but our position and glory in heaven is at stake, because our position and glory in heaven is dependent on the way we cooperate with the grace of God.

At Initial Justification God sets up the Initially Justified irrevocably to heaven.

During Progressive Justification, the Initially Justified sets up his position and glory in heaven by his cooperation with the grace of God.

God bless Richca and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight