Out of nothing comes nothing, So how is creation exnihilo possible?

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However, movement in general is an actualization of potential, and potential cannot actualize itself.
How would you measure actualization of potential? Do some objects have more potential than others? For which objects would it be easier to actualize their potential, and for which would it be more difficult. How do you measure all of this?
 
Can the nature of something actualize that thing’s potential? And whether the answer is yes or no, can this be demonstrated?
That is also my question. What experiment can you perform to show the actualization of a potential.
 
That is also my question. What experiment can you perform to show the actualization of a potential.
When one moves from ignorance to knowledge, he at first has the capacity to learn(potential) then while learning, being informed (filling the capacity to learn) he is being moved to being informed , to knowledge, (act). but it must be kept in mind that achieving knowledge is not achieving all knowledge, so ones potential is never complete. If the potential to learn was never a reality, then it would be impossible to be informed. There are countless demonstrations. It can be seen as the ability to have, to the actual having. The question arises “Do we move ourselves when being informed?” It certainly appears that way, but upon deeper analysis, if we trace our abilities to their source, then we find that we do not move ourselves, we didn’t cause ourselves, and that we take things for granted. For if we could initially move ourselves we wouldn’t have to be moved by another, and reality demonstrates that when things are moved, they are moved by another. We need to understand the nature of movement, its purpose, what movement accomplishes. It would be easier to understand movement in material objects, then movement is living things, I gave one from moving things (having life) which is harder to understand.
 
if we trace our abilities to their source, then we find that we do not move ourselves, we didn’t cause ourselves,
This seems like equivocation.to me. We’re talking about actualizing potential. It has been suggested (by me) that a person could, by their nature (e.g. having a rational intelligence capable of learning), actualise their own potential (e.g. by learning something). We’re not talking about ultimate sources of abilities or ultimate causes of something’s existence. This being the case, has the person that learns something ‘moved herself’?
 
. . . It has been suggested (by me) that a person could, by their nature (e.g. having a rational intelligence capable of learning), actualise their own potential (e.g. by learning something). We’re not talking about ultimate sources of abilities or ultimate causes of something’s existence. This being the case, has the person that learns something ‘moved herself’?
It’s called free will. We participate in the creation of our eternal being from what we have been given. We had no choice as to our intellectual potential. What we do with it, and whether we help it grow or wither, is up to us. And, our free will is given to us.
 
This seems like equivocation.to me. We’re talking about actualizing potential. It has been suggested (by me) that a person could, by their nature (e.g. having a rational intelligence capable of learning), actualise their own potential (e.g. by learning something). We’re not talking about ultimate sources of abilities or ultimate causes of something’s existence. This being the case, has the person that learns something ‘moved herself’?
As a secondary mover, we are given power to move, we did not cause that power eg. Its LIKE kinetic energy that is passed on. Causing motion in the second object by striking it. We are moved to study by willing it, desiring the knowledge. We are not the cause of our desires, the desire for knowledge is the appetite of the mind, it is a power of the soul, its in our nature, and we sure didn’t didn’t design or create our nature. So desire for knowledge is natural to man, it is motivation of the mind, and we didn’t cause it, we are moved by another, the designer of our nature.
 
I have my own philosophical position on this matter, but i like to hear why you think creation exnihilo is possible.
If God took nothing and made something, or made something from nothing, then God would be a maker and not a creator.

A creator just wills something into existence. That God takes “nothing” to make something is a misunderstanding of what it means to be a creator. A creator only needs himself to will something to be. “Nothing” should not even be considered or stated.
 
If God took nothing and made something, or made something from nothing, then God would be a maker and not a creator.

A creator just wills something into existence.
This ^^ is just an arbitrary definition and distinction.

In the context we’re using, there’s no difference between a maker and a creator.
 
This ^^ is just an arbitrary definition and distinction.

In the context we’re using, there’s no difference between a maker and a creator.
:twocents:

Not sure what the context is, but there’s a world of difference, literally, between a creator and a maker. God created the world in seven “days”, utilizing in all but the first what earlier had been created, in creating of the next. Life is not simply a moulding of macomolecules, which in turn are more than their subatomic constituents. And, we are surely a new creation from what was brought into being as the animal kingdom. There is no making or recasting of the old to form the new; each of the first “days” is ex nihilo.
 
:twocents:

Not sure what the context is, but there’s a world of difference, literally, between a creator and a maker. God created the world in seven “days”, utilizing in all but the first what earlier had been created, in creating of the next. Life is not simply a moulding of macomolecules, which in turn are more than their subatomic constituents. And, we are surely a new creation from what was brought into being as the animal kingdom. There is no making or recasting of the old to form the new; each of the first “days” is ex nihilo.
And what’s the difference between that and a “maker”?

“God made the world” and “God created the world” are 2 completely different statements?

:confused:
 
And what’s the difference between that and a “maker”?

“God made the world” and “God created the world” are 2 completely different statements?

:confused:
“God made the world out of nothing” sounds like perhaps “nothing” is some sort of building material. “No-thingness” has been understood by some to be a mental state of pure awareness in which the illusoriness of things is realized, so such an interpretation may not be as weird as it may come across.
“God created the world out of nothing” is different, suggesting that there was nothing and then He created (made) the world.
Just semantics I suppose, but in the process of discussing their meaning, hopefully we have a clearer idea, as much as we can such a mystery, of what God did in the act of creation.
There was no pre-existing being and not Himself that was utilized in making the cosmos. It was created. Even if everything is ultimately light at its foundation, each layer of creation is something new that was brought into existence and not transformed from something else.
 
“God made the world out of nothing” sounds like perhaps “nothing” is some sort of building material.
“God created the world out of nothing” is different, suggesting that there was nothing and then He created (made) the world.
Just semantics I suppose, but in the process of discussing their meaning, hopefully we have a clearer idea, as much as we can such a mystery, of what God did in the act of creation.
There was no pre-existing being and not Himself that was utilized in making the cosmos. It was created. Even if everything is ultimately light at its foundation, each layer of creation is something new that was brought into existence and not transformed from something else.
Could you please answer my question?

You are saying that these are 2 completely different statements:
God made the world
God created the world

Yes? Or no, they are the same?
 
Could you please answer my question?

You are saying that these are 2 completely different statements:
God made the world
God created the world

Yes? Or no, they are the same?
I added a bit to the post after this quote.

Hmm, let me see. Are they the same? Yes or no?
How about, yes and no?

“Made” comes from some German sounding source while “created” has clear Latin roots. I think, creating/making this up as I go, that they are probably still both in use because their meanings are not congruent. There are differences in their connotations. Make leans toward the concept of construction, more so than the word create.

God created us by making a physical form from the dust of the world and animating it with His breath.
 
I added a bit to the post after this quote.

Hmm, let me see. Are they the same? Yes or no?
How about, yes and no?

“Made” comes from some German sounding source while “created” has clear Latin roots. I think, creating/making this up as I go, that they are probably still both in use because their meanings are not congruent. There are differences in their connotations. Make leans toward the concept of construction, more so than the word create.
sigh.

Bye, Aloysium.
 
The altermodernist Tower of Babel that is the Internet makes words pointless as we speak past each other, clutching our own meanings. Sigh indeed! Cya.
Out of nothing comes nothing. You cannot get essentially more from that which is essentially less. So how is it metaphysically possible to create something that was nothing at all to begin with?
 
You cannot get essentially more from that which is essentially less.
Synergy proves that you can have a complex whole which is greater than the simple sum of its parts. So you can get more from less.
 
Synergy proves that you can have a complex whole which is greater than the simple sum of its parts. So you can get more from less.
In what respect is more essentially coming from less in this respect?

A brick wall is greater than any particular brick of which it is comprised. More reality cannot come from no reality because the is no reality in nothing. Therefore if a thing begins to exist it is getting its reality, its power, from something else - something thats greater in some respect. Its not just coming from nothing with its own power and existence.
 
In what respect is more essentially coming from less in this respect?
You cannot get essentially more from that which is essentially less.
Mathematically, the whole is equal to the sum of its parts, neither more nor less. But according to Aristotle, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Emergence is a process whereby patterns, and complex features arise through interactions among simpler entities that themselves do not exhibit such properties.
 
Mathematically, the whole is equal to the sum of its parts, neither more nor less. But according to Aristotle, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Emergence is a process whereby patterns, and complex features arise through interactions among simpler entities that themselves do not exhibit such properties.
Synergy: meaning: the interaction of two or more agents or force so that their combined effects is greater than the individual effects. This makes sense if we add effect to effect, it is greater by number, quantity But not necessarily by quality.

I can not speak for Aristotle, but if the combined forces, or effects is lesser in greatness, then one individual effect, or force that is very great, then synergy does not hold true, that the combined effects is greater than an individual effect or force. Numbers do not make for greatness in effects, just greatness in quantity, numbers. Greatness is a quality, not a quantity, and quality is a subject proper to metaphysics, not quantitative measure. There is a lot of mixture of these ideas thats producing a lot of misunderstandings Emergence from a simple effect to a greater one is impossible, and erroneous.

What effect, giving existence to something that didn’t exist could be greater?
 
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